I attended a 3 day seminar this weekend promoting noteschool. Noteschool is a mentorship and training program for notes performing and non performing. It seems very expensive starting at 16k depending on the level your at. I understand the value in education and mentorship but this is allot of money and I am wanting to start investing in notes. Has anyone heard anything good or bad about eddie speed and note school.
Sometimes, if you don't have anything good to say, it is better not to say anything.
That said... I would highly recommend learning about notes from
There is a ton of FREE information, monthly coaching calls, and any training they have is a LOT cheaper than Eddie.
@Brandon Brock Are you looking at Performing or non-performing? You are right the course is expensive but we signed up and have been happy with the results. I would warn however that if you are thinking of signing up you should make sure you have money not just for the class but to actually purchase a note(s) as well.
For the Non Performing side I would recommend having 40-50k set aside to invest so you can build a portfolio, different loans will work out over differant time frames and you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. The thing I think most often when considering if it was worth the investment is "Would we have even gotten started without this program?" We are just now resolving our first asset so I can't say for sure if we will be doing this in 6 months but, so far, things look good (knock wood).
We are not doing anything with the School on the performing side yet so I can't speak to that.
I can teach you for a lot less then $16K.
I have not seen Eddie's stuff but what I can tell you is that it's probably not worth half that, maybe 25%!
Jackie has a good point that much of it is free on line. Don't know about that link you were referred to.
Bob makes a very good point, you need money! I'd say you need your own funds.
Joe scares me.
Not know what Eddie Speed is all about, is there a game plan you have for notes? Buy and hold as an investment? You'll have a portfolio of what ever, it would simply be an investment with your own funds.
If you have any ideas of buying, modifying a note and/or selling them, or not using your own assets to acquire them you'd be in the business which will require you to go through registration or brokerage requirements. No small hill to climb starting a mortgage/note brokerage.
So, what are you intentions, besides making buckets full of money, in notes?
Bill I scare everybody. Bill I suggest if you want to learn about notes do a lot of reading here on BP.
I actually served on a panel with Eddie a couple of weeks ago at the IMN REO to Rental Conference in South Florida. I've known Eddie for a couple of years and he is a very stand-up guy with a lot of knowledge. We cross paths from time to time and, after spending time chatting about the note world, I consider him a friend. As for the cost and the value you get from a course, only you can answer that. I will say, however, that reading threads on any web site will not take the place of experience. If you are new to note investing, you MUST have a mentor that knows what they are doing or you are setting yourself up to lose a ton. Choose your mentors wisely, but Eddie does know his stuff.
Bob I would like to start out on the Non performing side. I am looking for more cash flow to start with and then I can invest in long term later. I could be wrong but it seems like it would be hard to find the notes if I were trying to broker them to other people. I have some money to start with, but paying a very expensive mentor-ship will take a big chunk of my cash. From the people I have visited with NPN is a high risk reward situation. I have looked at Dave Van Horn's site. Has anyone mentored with him. From what I can tell he teaches mostly 2nd's. They seem to be less expensive but more risk. Does anyone have any good experiences with Dave's program. I know that conferences are a great way to make contacts does anyone know of any note conferences that would be good to attend coming up.
Brandon - doesn't sound like you're getting a lot of support for taking Eddie's training.
I missed any comments that you might have posted about your level of real estate and/or notes experience is, to date. If it's extensive, I say spend whatever money you feel like will give you the most educational value for your buck.
If you are relatively new, starting in non-performing notes is best tackled later after you understand the security (dozens of real estate deals under your belt) and buying performing notes and later foreclosing on those that stop paying.
Starting with non-performing paper can be tough. While I know Eddie, too, I also know that you'd probably get the most out of any training only after you can appreciate the topics, issues, concepts, principals, risks, problems and solutions.
If you're hesitant to spend $16K, start with a book or two, such as 'Performance Anxiety', by Gordon Moss. It's a great primer on the topic.
Also, Dave Horn's PPR Note business offers note training without the idiosyncrasies that make some uncomfortable with Mr. Speed.
have saved up to go in the note business ?
Yes Mr. Harmon I think you are making since. I need to get more experience under my belt.
Originally posted by @Brandon Brock :
Yes Mr. Harmon I think you are making since. I need to get more experience under my belt.
And Brandon, I agree as well.
Most here on BP, believe that buying notes is some other aspect of RE investing, it's not really, I don't even know why it's on a real estate site. RE is related only to the extent that RE is the collateral, note investing is an area of finance.
You don't need an MBA in finance, but you do need to understand the financial arena and mostly it's about laws relating to both finance and real estate.
Doug, sorry I missed mentioning you. I was agreeing about your comment as to having a mentor, then I realized I didn't have a mentor when I started.
Brandon, there were books, I skimmed the "Paper Game" don't recall the author but it was conceptual and a little too fluffy for me, I didn't really start by using anything in that book, if I did, it was by accident. I really didn't start by using any "how to book".
My first was during college, I had already done RE deals, but honestly I didn't have a clue compared to where I am today. I woke up too early, I won't ramble.
It only took one note purchase to see the contracts, representation, warranties, disclaimers, endorsements, settlement, accounting and notices required. While there are some rather light legal and tax aspects, buying or selling a note is not rocket science.
The hard part is selecting the right note and obtaining the right or an acceptable price. That is where RE comes into the picture. You aren't buying the property but you need to value it for collateral purposes as it can become the means by which you get your money back.
You need to know RE valuations as well as the best Realtor you've ever met. Study appraisal techniques and valuation methods.
I like to say you need a crystal ball of sorts, need to look at the history of the note, payments made, see where and why the note was created, understand the borrowers position, look at their ability to pay and find out as much as you can about the borrower, getting in their head so to speak. I do this and I believe it makes a big difference. Much of this is loan underwriting and it can identify a quality note.
Today, you should turn over any note you buy to a mortgage servicer, for about $300 +/- a year you'll avoid tons of regulatory issues, tax filings, notices required and collections with a performing note. Just work the cost into the price aspect. Otherwise, you just doubled your learning curve as loan servicing and portfolio management is another field. Small investors just can't go there today and be compliant or economical so get a servicer.
Funds required: You need your own money or borrow money by using your own assets, you can not borrow or use funds of others, that gets into brokering. You need to know your state laws and brokerage requirements so that you don't get into doing any brokerage activities unless you have the proper license. There is a real risk here as to brokering as you can lose the entire note and be fined, get involved with others using their money and screw up, you can go to jail. There may be a few who may make smart azz comments about this, but they have no clue, this is a very serious side of finance.
You need enough to enforce collections, pay for an attorney to foreclose, fees are often limited by law for a trustee to 10%, so a 60K note could be 6K to the trustee and there are other costs. You may need to safeguard the collateral, make emergency repairs, pay for legal notices and filings. Costs vary state to state. So does the time to secure a property for sale, insurance and taxes will accrue. It's like being a landlord without a tenant. So, you need cash reserves or be able, without any doubt, to acquire funds, in this aspect you can borrow money to carry out a foreclosure as this is not the note purchase side.
So, I can't really say you need XX dollars to buy a note or a portfolio of notes, but besides the note purchase you'll need reserves and the ability to carry out the necessary functions to safeguard your investment. And, while the real risk of getting sued is rather low, especially if you use a servicer, you can be, so consider the ability to finance legal work. Brokers can get insurance but small investors will not be able to obtain the same types of coverage.
Hope that answered Jenkins' question as well. How much? Enough and then the ability to get twice that. If you can get your hand on twice the note purchase price I'd think you'd be fine. As you add more notes, you don't need reserves like that for each note, but that depends too on the type of note, a good performing note won't need the reserves of a NPN requiring modification of foreclosure actions.
Well, that's enough. Brandon, I see you're in OK, I'm in MO, you might connect with me and I'll be happy to assist or answer questions. I'm not a broker now, retired, so this is not a business solicitation. Good luck :)
I'll add a few thoughts to Gulley's comments, however a believe a new thread ought be started as to the what, why and how of note investing.
Notes (paper) are not real estate. However, if the collateral is real estate and you need to seek the forced liquidation of the collateral (foreclose) you'd better understand and plan for all the issues that rehabbers deal with after getting possession.
If you own a note in junior position such as a second, you have the further expense and exposure of monitoring the senior mortgage and factoring in the potential cost of advancing funds to keep it from foreclosing you out.
This thread is about training. If you have addition Q's about notes, I suggest you please start a new thread in the appropriate forum.
The thing you need to understand about Eddie Speed's NoteSchool is that it is not just an ocean of online content. It is a COMMUNITY of note investors. Most importantly, it is the ability to get on the telephone and say "This is my deal, I have THIS problem. What do you think?" Then you get Eddie's opinion, and the guidance of 2 or three other experts and also the benefit of the experience of 150 other NoteSchool students on the call. With Eddie's help, I have made more than one decision where more than $25,000 was at stake - in the presence of and with the help of the super-seasoned NoteSchool students on the call.
Did I have any money when I started? I borrowed the money to pay for NoteSchool. Am I a successful note trader? No doubt. My corporation manages paper and real estate nationwide. We are expanding in both performing and non-performing spaces. Do I know about a thousand times more about real estate than I did before NoteSchool? Absolutely. Could I have done it without Eddie? No Way.
Disclosure: I used to work for Eddie Speed
I started as a student in Eddie’s training program in 2008. This was when he was first starting in training business. I have been working with him ever since. He had already been in the note space for over 25 years when I first met him.
Was I skeptical about a person who I knew nothing about wanting me to spend a lot of money to train with him? Of course I was. However, after a short period of time I realized he was the real deal. I first began note brokering, note sales, and was mostly involved in seller finance paper at the time. It was a lot of money and a lot of work, but well worth every penny.
While in his training program I was asked to run his note pricing and acquisition desk with another associate. I jumped at the chance! I ran the desk for over 3 years. I had the opportunity to work with Eddie, his staff, and the many different contacts he had throughout the industry. This is truly where I saw Eddie as an amazing individual. Everyone I talked to while working the desk had nothing but good things to say about Eddie. This is also where I learned Eddie not only knew how to teach the business, but truly was active in it as well!
So is Eddie’s program expensive? Yes, however it depends on what you define as expensive. From a straight dollar perspective, it may be. However, is the education myself and others received worth the price tag? I can absolutely say yes. There are many mistakes I have avoided because of the education I have received through Eddie.
I believe the most valuable part of the program are the relationships and friendships I have developed since I met Eddie in 2008. They have truly changed so many aspects of my life and business. I am eternally grateful.
If you have any other questions, please let me know...
I know Eddie Speed, I AM a very successful Mentor Student at the Titanium Level, which if you know anything about the NoteSchool then you will know is MUCH more of an investment than 16K. We are COMPLETLEY happy with our investment and enrollment in the program.
So, I have heard, experienced and say good things about Eddie Speed and NoteSchool. I think your real question is 'is it worth the price'? My husband and I, and many many others we know, network with, do business and travel with doing this business will all give you a RESOUNDING YES! The real issue lies within yourself. Are you a smart DIYer who knows enough to be dangerous to yourself in this business? Better get a good teacher, and BE TEACHABLE....Because this business is big boy/girl stuff for real!
If you need a complicated surgery, that doctor is going to be expensive because of their skills and abilities to save your life. But some people are the type that cringe at price tags. These type of people are without understanding that the value of their life is worth more than the price they will pay or money saved by having a boy scout with a first aide badge do their surgery. All because of price they may lose their life (in this business it could be your life savings or that of someone else you partner with). That is a simplistic model to be sure, but it is the same thing with all things in your life. There are many ways to get things done. There are many trainers of many topics in real estate, finance, notes, asset protection, etc. Not all are comprehensive or even right, it is buyer beware.
So, ask yourself this: Which way will you learn best? Can you afford to work with those who don't have the depth of experience, the network, the structure, and the commitment to keep you out of trouble? NoteSchool will give you no bones about it direct advice from staff and others in our "family". Do you like the school of hard knocks? Or are you just too immersed in consumerism to understand investment and what a risk/reward model looks like. If so stay out of this business.
Eddie and NoteSchool are the Ivy League, Masters level program. Other programs may get you there. Maybe not the same speed of implementation, maybe not as comprehensive, maybe not as well connected. Which do you want? If your cash position drives you, then you know what to do. Either buy what you can afford, or stay out of the game till you can afford it.
Anyone involved in trainings, mentorships etc on any topic, anywhere, my advice to you is PRESS IN, get closer to your group, sit at the feet of the 'masters' so to speak...then watch what happens to your knowledge, and your business. If you chose your teachers well, your business will explode, if it doesn't...I am sincerely sorry for you. Pick up the pieces and find out what you lack and get back to it....!
@Brandon Brock I understand that the price is high, I wish it had been cheaper but I will say that I am glad I signed up for a couple of reasons.
1) There are a lot of garbage notes n the internet, having seen some of the offerings that come through Eddies group I have something to compare against.
2) I have had a few specific questions and been able to call someone and get a a straight go/no go opinion on a note that has probably saved me more then the price of the class already.
3) I could have read books and threads on BP but I think it would have taken me longer to get to the point where I would be comfortable pulling the trigger on actually buying a note. More then likely I would still be sitting on the sidelines still watching.
In short purchasing the mentorship gave me the kick in the a$$ to get going.
The way I started, if that is helpful, is I brought a friend to the three day seminar. I respect his opinion and wanted a second opinion to make sure I was not being sold a rainbow. We debated if we should go it alone or do note school. In the end we decided note school was kind of an expensive insurance policy.
I paid the full cost of the mentorship program up front and then my partner and I both put in an equal amount of money to start the business with an agreement that the first profits would go against the cost of the mentorship program. The advantage, for me, of starting with a partner was that we would have enough funds to buy a small pool of notes to try the process. IF things didn't work out neither one of us would be crushed by the loss but we could spread our risk over multiple notes incase we got one that was just a bummer.
If you send me a connection I would be happy to PM you our you can call me and I we can discuss. I want you to make the decision that is best for you, I don't have an interest in any way other then seeing a fellow BPer succeed.
I find it interesting (amusing is perhaps a better word) that the previous two posters who are touting the program being discussed each have exactly one post on BiggerPockets and they are just 15 minutes apart. It's almost as if someone gets Google alerts when his name is mentioned, and then "deploys the troops" when damage control is needed.
Even more interesting/amusing is that one poster comes from the perspective of being a helpful collaborator trying to provide guidance while the other is angry and offended at the ignorance being bandied about. Let the reader determine which of the responses makes more of an emotional connection.
Not saying that's what happened, but an interesting hypothetical... :-)
I am sorry if I came off as 'angry and offended', that is probably why you only have seen 1 post attributed to the profile. It was not my intention, but I do feel strongly about some subjects.
As for the timing? IDK that other person....I was working on this response for quite a while, and did not even edit it enough when I did because I was so passionate...so, my bad for hitting post before being sure I was being clear enough.
Sorry to the readers. BP is an interesting forum, we have been members for a long time ( I think since 2009), and when I do bop in it usually has some very good information. But forums being what they are sometimes they present opinions that are striking opposition...that should be applauded as accomplishment because all sides of an issue may get heard that way.
Naw, J. Scott, I'd say you pretty much caught that. Pretty obvious, almost like a tag team.
I will say that having a network of brokers is a good thing, but I've seen other network schools, educating members too. Many turn out to be nothing more than birddogs as they call the heavy hitters who in turn provide solutions of who will buy.....and all along the notes pretty much end up in the same holding tank.
Not saying that is what goes on with our three newest members, but it's out there. And for many, who wouldn't really catch on, being a birddog is just fine. But you can usually learn enough to do that with many brokers without paying thousands of dollars.
And, many will say they only work with "member dealers"......really? That's kind of like saying I'd only buy a house if my Realtor brought it to me.
Again, I don't know Eddie or anyone in the group, to my knowledge. It's hard to place a price on something that has limited exposure in a market, with no comparable alternatives, but that doesn't make it worth more either. I'd bet if there were a good field of competition the price would drop. :)
I'm taking Joe's advice now, seeing what I can learn about notes in the BP forums...... ;))
I spoke to Eddie several years ago when I was interested in notes. He seems like a standup guy. My wife has a friend/acquaintence/mentor that was working closely with him to promote his thang and simulataneously promote her thang. I don't think she'd associate with someone who wasn't above board.
The ones that attended the Eddie NoteSchool have you bought any notes yet?
We have bought dozens. And we are processing more each week. We have also rejected hundreds more from bad sources that we found on our own outside of the network we are connected with through NoteSchool...Due Diligence and proper connections are critical in this business.
I am glad that you jump in on buying notes it is a great business I guess you bought non-performing 1st.
Actually we have been in NoteSchool since March 2012 (I think it was, time flies)..We bought both sides of the business immediately because we saw how they both go hand in hand, and it has been really helpful to keep a well rounded knowledge of how the business works.
We are participating in all of the mentor tools available to us, and we travel to more classes and networking opportunities all the time. It has been very helpful and is the major focus of our business right now.
Our profile is pretty blank because we stay quite busy...but we have been running a large Real Estate Mastermind group in the Kansas City area for almost 5 years every week on wednesdays...we are landlords, flippers, wholesalers, as well as in the note business. We provide training, opportunities for partnerships, general networking, etc...all for free, just come out for breakfast.
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