The bankers code

27 posts by 17 users

Bill Schultz

Sep 14 '11, 08:27 AM

Has anyone seen this course? Something about obtaining private money and re-lending it at a higher rate. I would love to hear some reviews.

Will Barnard Verified Moderator Donor

Developer from Santa Clarita, California

Sep 14 '11, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by bill schultz:
Has anyone seen this course? Something about obtaining private money and re-lending it at a higher rate. I would love to hear some reviews.
No clue as to the course referenced, but you better have a license to do this as it is not legal to borrow funds from others, combine them and re-loan them out at higher rates without a license and be registered with the SEC.

Medium be logoWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
Website: - For all Southern California House Flippers, Agents, and Wholesalers

Ann Bellamy Verified

Hard money lender from Tyngsboro, Massachusetts

Sep 14 '11, 09:04 AM
8 votes

I review as many gurus and courses as possible, and have plenty of contact with them as I was a co-founder of a local REIA. Sorting through them is a full time job. I especially try to stay on top of the ones relating to lending in real estate investing. When I heard of the Banker's Code, I was all about finding an easier path.

George Antone and Gary Boomershine were promoting the Banker's Code via signing up for a personal phone consultation with them, I was supposed to have a 1 hour session with one of them personally. I paid the small dollars for the offer and signed up, and scheduled the phone appointment. They actually have someone who's full time job it is to make and track these appointments.

Every time it was the appointed time for our phone call, I got a call from a substitute, apologizing that George and Gary were both unexpectedly unavailable, and explaining that he/she were going to speak with me instead. When I politely declined, the person couldn't even reschedule, and had to refer me back to the scheduler.

When this happened 3 times, I called the scheduler and requested a refund. I had enough evidence to satisfy me that I was paying for a sales pitch, not a consultation. I did receive my refund about 6 weeks later.

I have an associate who has been to their course and is trying to follow what they have told him. They apparently make it sound very simple and relatively hands off to start a lending company. Evidently all you have to do is find a mortgage broker who will handle all the borrower compliance issues for you and bring you deals. Then you find a loan servicing company to service these loans. Then you find an attorney/title co who can handle the closings nationally. Then you go and find your funding from people begging you to lend out their money for them. You lend it out higher than you take it in, and voila, you keep the spread. Easy peasy. Why isn't everyone doing it? (Their material is heavily West Coast slanted, and doesn't really address differences we have in the East. For example, in CA I'm told that mortgage brokers can sell fractionalized loans, and the Banker's Code uses that technique, but no lawyer I've spoken to in my location will endorse that. Must be I'm speaking to the wrong lawyers.)

There is more to it, but you get the idea. Gee, I wish I knew it was that easy when I started. Then I wouldn't have gotten so involved with due diligence, SEC compliance, lending licensing requirements, and all those little issues that are so time consuming and don't produce revenue.

I hope everyone reading this knows I have my tongue firmly planted in my cheek.

Bottom line, when someone gives me the run around 3 times for a simple phone call, I'm not going down that road with them any further.

Medium small logoAnn Bellamy, Buy Now, LLC
Telephone: 800-418-0081
Hard money lending in NH and MA, and for free networking in MA,

Ann Bellamy Verified

Hard money lender from Tyngsboro, Massachusetts

Sep 14 '11, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Will Barnard:
Originally posted by bill schultz:
Has anyone seen this course? Something about obtaining private money and re-lending it at a higher rate. I would love to hear some reviews.
No clue as to the course referenced, but you better have a license to do this as it is not legal to borrow funds from others, combine them and re-loan them out at higher rates without a license and be registered with the SEC.

I'm with you, Will, I was just typing my answer and saying the same thing, but in a longer less concise format.

Medium small logoAnn Bellamy, Buy Now, LLC
Telephone: 800-418-0081
Hard money lending in NH and MA, and for free networking in MA,

Kevin Yeats

Lender from Fort Pierce, Florida

Sep 14 '11, 09:33 AM
2 votes

How good are you at underwriting loans?

The 3-6-3 rule of banking may be extinct. "Pay 3% on deposits, make loans at 6% and be on the golf course at 3."

The spread that you envision is only one part of this formula. Loan losses aka defaults or late payments can make a significant dent into your profits. Foreclosing on a property also takes a lot of time and resources.

Are you sure you want to pursue this?

Jon Holdman Moderator

Investor from Wheat Ridge, Colorado

Sep 14 '11, 09:43 AM

In Colorado, you not only need a mortgage broker license but also an additional license specifically for doing what's described here. I know a few people who are doing this, and I have some money in with one of them. So, this is possible. Starting from scratch know nothing about lending or real estate is not going to be easy, though.

Jon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC

Rob Gillespie Verified Video

Real Estate Investor from Cleveland, Ohio

Sep 14 '11, 10:12 AM

never saw the course, but by the description that you just gave me, I would not get involved with that plan.

That is a great plan if you have deep pockets to cover payments and if you REALLY know your business and can maintain control of the property.

Finally, I am not an SEC attorney, but it does seem like their could be some MAJOR legal problems, especially if anyone looses a dime!

There are a lotta easier ways to make coin in this biz without that much risk.

Just my 2 cents! :mrgreen:

Rob Gillespie, Rob The House Guy, LLC
E-Mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 330-800-9090
[email protected] 330 800 9090

Leo M

Sep 27 '11, 06:12 AM

I attended the free session that they were doing in May called "The Wealthy Code". This is almost an introduction course to The Banker's Code and it gives you a basic understanding of passive income and other avenues. In my personal opinion, I feel that George Antone is a great teacher and has a wealth of knowledge and this course is amazing and free. They give you workbooks and really open your eyes to analyzing a good deal. I'm going to start the course soon. [REMOVED]

Edited Sep 27 2011, 06:22 by Moderator

David Doyle

General Contractor from Monrovia, California

Jun 25 '12, 08:24 PM
1 vote

George and Gary are nice guys ,GOOD GUYS,,and I think there stuff is valid,,,I think their information and training is worthwhile,,,
Having said that,,theres Lots of Stuff avaialble on a Google search for Hard Money Lending or Private Mortgage Training,,,

I want to propose a question "
Would you rather pay someone 8K grand to learn something about hard money lending or would u rather spend a little bit less checking stuff out chunk by chunk on the Net,,,,???? If u got 8K and u wanna get in the fast lane then u know what to do,,,,Trust but verify,,,make sure your right and then go ahead,,,(Davy Crockett)

I invite you to draw your own conclusions,,,,,

Dion DePaoli

Investor from Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Jun 25 '12, 09:40 PM
2 votes

Heard of the course never took it or read any reviews. I do have mortgage banking experience, as well as lending fund to fund money. I had both private investor money and institutional money including a warehouse line of credit.

All that said, if you know nothing about writing a loan, which frankly you are asking about this to begin with, so you are starting in the wrong place. All the legal issues and license issues can be overcome if your serious, you just go get those. You will need a license to lend in every state you desire to lend in, which is different than being a mortgage broker or a mortgage broker business in many states. Lenders have bond and liquidity requirements and audit requirements which are different from state to state.

The notion is simple, you get money cheaper than you lend it out creating an arbitrage between the two and collect the spread and perhaps a point or two at origination. That is pretty simple to understand. How to measure prepayment risk and default risk along with how to underwrite are skills that you do not get over night. Also, portfolio management is not something you pick up over night. How will you exit the loans? How will you solicit for investors? The list of questions can go on for a bit.

There are plenty of folks here on BP who are affluent in loans, lending and are actually practicing lenders. Spend sometime with them and start the learning process. Perhaps start off in an entry level role as an investor to see if all the work and risk that goes with the venture is truly what you want. BP has the firepower to educate you with the folks here and that will be cheaper than paying for a course that costs thousands and apparently the right teacher never calls you.

Jerome Adams

from Willingboro, New Jersey

Feb 04 '13, 12:42 PM

I'm glad I found this forum because of course I was in the process of buying into some of the things these "gurus" say not realizing how much behind the scene work is necessary. I did not even know that a license had to be obtained in order to be involved in private lending. with that being said I am still very much interested in this aspect of real estate investing and especially note investing. Hopefully I'll get more insight after searching on here

Ron Steele

from Birmingham, Alabama

Feb 05 '13, 03:53 AM

Where do you find the money to lend? For example I get the concept, but if u are not using your original money how do u access the money?

Dion DePaoli

Investor from Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Feb 07 '13, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by Ron Steele:
Where do you find the money to lend? For example I get the concept, but if u are not using your original money how do u access the money?

Ron, what you are asking about is called raising capital. If you are raising capital with the intent to loan it out, stand in the middle of the room, look to your left, that is the regulations around raising capital and then look to your right, that is the regulations around lending money.

How to raise capital in compliance with SEC/FINRA is a whole set of discussion on their own. Who you raise money from, how much, how you solicit and how you structure the investment....all things that would fall into that concept.

Provided you gain an understanding of all of that, it becomes a function of raising the capital in either equity or debt or a combination of the two.

Ron Steele

from Birmingham, Alabama

Feb 10 '13, 02:11 PM
1 vote

Thanks for the info?

I understand raising capital. Could you or anyone provide any resources or examples to learn more about this.

I don't understand why someone would loan me $ at ex 6% no collateral then I loan at 10% hard money which would be ltv of 65% or lower, secured by collateral (real estate),plus points. The other points is lending on what??? my credit,sales pitch, ???

The only way I can see getting these terms are traditional financing which would highly doubtful/impossible I would think.

I thought maybe a line of credit would work(I have a small one) but I don't know if the spread would make sense. I'm not sure what I'm paying on interest, but my loans would have to have a much higher rate. Also it seems you would have to have a pretty big line of credit.

I'm looking for any answers anybody could provide, and thanks in advance for your help.

Ron Steele

from Birmingham, Alabama

Feb 11 '13, 03:32 AM

Any opinions on this would be helpful before I purchase the course.


Account Closed

Apr 10 '13, 09:12 PM

im not sure i understand .. why would u consider buying the course after all the opinions n mention of this course being non-compliant with the law?

David Oldenburg Verified

from Granite Bay, California

Nov 04 '14, 05:29 AM
1 vote

I was just at the Real Estate Investors Expo in Anaheim and George Antone was one of the speakers. I also stopped by the booth and spoke extensively with the "rep" about the course and what they are teaching. I have been a FNMA, FHA, VA lender for 25 years and loan my own money, pool money etc... I have not taken their course, and really don;t need to take it. The basics of what they are teaching can be done by anyone, assuming you have access to capital, understand risk and arbitrage.  I do this all the time.  However, I use my own money to leverage.  Example:  I loan $200,000 of my own money to an investor at say 12% and 3 points at 50% LTV. (this is very common in my area).  I pocket the $9,000 in points, I then borrow $300,000 at say 10% and 1 point (I can easily do this with my connections) and use my $300,000 NOTE as collateral for the new loan.  This is what banks do, but they do it a little differently. In theory, as long as I have enough connections (liquidity), I can do this over and over at very low LTV's, pocket the points each time and pocket the "spread" on the loans.  However....THIS IS NOT RISK FREE!!!  If any of your investors stop making you payments, you have to pay your people with your own money until you can get them paid or foreclose.  If you have reserve money, this can work well.   I would recommend not leveraging more than a couple of times. You can get people on Loopnet pretty easily to loan against your low LTV notes as collateral.  

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator from Springfield, Missouri

Nov 04 '14, 06:20 AM
1 vote

Besides pulling up an old thread, things have changed and yes, you need a license.

Ponzi schemes have been around a long time, and when you start borrowing to meet the needs of other loans you then have a Ponzi arrangement, per a past FBI Agent-In-Charge here, I know him well.

About two years ago, a broker here was doing this, he couldn't cover the loans, investors were feeding other investors, notes cam unglued and he is sitting in prison.

And, no, not just anyone can do this, the basics get left in the dust quickly and it will require financing skills, RE skills and social skills that not everyone has, much less the money to back them up.

There are 51 sets of laws to contend with, 50 states and the feds, just because someone has funds they can't just begin lending safely.

If anyone wants to open a mortgage company and you have a million of your own money, I'll assist you, otherwise I suggest you not think it's so easy. I also know an attorney who had similar thoughts, after I talked to him, he decided not to go there, so, no, not just anyone can do it. :) 

Bill Gulley, General Real Estate Academy (GREA) Training is GREAT Generalrealestateacademy.Com

Account Closed

Nov 04 '14, 08:13 AM

@Bill Gulley  is talking about hypothecation, are you saying that's a ponzi scheme?  The one time I say George Antone speak that's what he was talking about.

Edited May 27 2015, 11:15

David Oldenburg Verified

from Granite Bay, California

Nov 04 '14, 08:34 AM
1 vote

What I do and have done is not a "ponzi" scheme!  I am loaning my own money, and I am legally pledging as collateral assets that I own. I am a licensed real estate broker in CA for 25 years, have closed over 5,000 transactions, own a real estate company, own a mortgage company and have a resume in the private money world that is too lengthy to list here.  If you read my post,  I am talking about a very simple and basic concept.  You loan money at low LTV's, so the "NOTE" has value to other investors.   You then borrow against the NOTE you already own, and use it as collateral.  This is done in institutional lending every day, It is perfectly legal and banks and private lenders do it thousands of times every month across the USA.  If you do it right, you can make points and a spread.  As I said earlier, this is easy to do, but is not RISK-FREE!  You are still obligating yourself on NOTES and run market risk. If you are in a 50% LTV loan and cannot pay it back, because someone else is not paying you, the lender could foreclose and hurt your credit etc... I am also a former stock broker and hosted a very successful financial show on building wealth and making money, This type of strategy is not for "newbies" or people with no capital.  If I do this kind of thing, I have money and can make payments on loans, while I am waiting to foreclose on someone else.  The course that is mentioned in this thread by George Antone, is a way to do this with OPM (other people's money).  I have not taken his course, and have no idea if he is teaching the exact same strategy I am explaining here :-) 

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