Buffalo Duplex Multifamily Rehab Estimates

10 Replies

Hi folks.  I'm just trying to get a supremely Ball Park rehab figure for the City of Buffalo for a Rehabbed Duplex.

It's actually in really good shape, so no real demo.  Needs new roof, 3 piers replaced for the Addition, and 5 poles replaced in the basement.  Otherwise, for both units, its pretty much new flooring throughout, new kitchen, new bathroom, outside paint job, and restoring porches on both levels.  New windows mostly throughout.  New doors mostly through out.  Thats it, its largely cosmetic.

With that said, would you say $50,000 is a big enough budget? I can go higher, but I'm trying to enter the property with equity and do a BRRRR.

Is 50k enough to do the above, or will I nees more?  It's okay if I do.  I just don't want the contractors to eat up all my equity because I'm a newb.

Updated 6 months ago

Revision 2: See my next post.

Updated 6 months ago

Revision: The second estimate is actually $123,045

Alex..... 50K could be more than enough.... or it could be no where near what you need...

My first question is why did the poles need to be replaced?  age, or something else wrong?

Piers being replaced sounds like drainage problems... Porches on both levels could be expensive, especially on older buildings. 

Also if you are a green newbie as you state, contractors will see right thru you, get several estimates for all jobs.. it's worth it to you. Take your time. 

Another question did you check out the rent for the area or just believe the sellers numbers.. also vacancy rate in the area.. this could make your investment go from a winner to a loser... 

Beside the updates and problems that you mentioned, how is the wiring, plumbing, furnace, etc... I stopped buying in the city due to "tube and post" wiring , old corroded plumbing and of course age of the properties... (doesn't mean you shouldn't).

It wouldn't hurt to have someone inspect it before purchase.. but not a home inspector. Use a good contractor, someone that actually has gotten his hands dirty. Not someone who took a few classes and claims to be a professional home inspector..I have never met a home inspector that was worth their salt, enough said on that..

Jim

  

Hey Jim! Thanks for the response!  I'm typing this up on my phone, so apologize for any errors.
  • The poles need to be replaced because they are rusty.  When you tap on them, you can hear it.
  • Being green and feeling like contractor bait is what made me reach out here.  I got two quotes. One for $70-$80,000 and another for $110,000.  As a result, I bought J. Scott's book on estimating rehab costs which has been REALLY helpful.  I'm going to do a walk through on my own and write up my own SOW just so I have my own estimate as well.  My plan is to find someone to write up a proffesional SOW afterwards, and just shop it out to contractors and let them bid on it, and if they need to see the property before they bid, then we can arrange that.  Your comments just confirmed that I need to see like 8 other GC's.  Thank you.
  • The rent is confirmed $850.  I called around and checked Craiglist.
  • It needs a new furnace, and I have no idea what the wiring and plumbing are like actually.  The GC's that gave me figures, and the 2 that didn't, didn't act like it was a problem.  You think I should have a plumber and electrician go in there?  I can almost hear you saying "YES!" LOL
  • Thanks for the insight, I really appreciate it.

Originally posted by @Jim Campbell :

Alex..... 50K could be more than enough.... or it could be no where near what you need...

My first question is why did the poles need to be replaced?  age, or something else wrong?

Piers being replaced sounds like drainage problems... Porches on both levels could be expensive, especially on older buildings. 

Also if you are a green newbie as you state, contractors will see right thru you, get several estimates for all jobs.. it's worth it to you. Take your time. 

Another question did you check out the rent for the area or just believe the sellers numbers.. also vacancy rate in the area.. this could make your investment go from a winner to a loser... 

Beside the updates and problems that you mentioned, how is the wiring, plumbing, furnace, etc... I stopped buying in the city due to "tube and post" wiring , old corroded plumbing and of course age of the properties... (doesn't mean you shouldn't).

It wouldn't hurt to have someone inspect it before purchase.. but not a home inspector. Use a good contractor, someone that actually has gotten his hands dirty. Not someone who took a few classes and claims to be a professional home inspector..I have never met a home inspector that was worth their salt, enough said on that..

Jim

  

Updated 6 months ago

Revision: The second estimate is actually $123,045

It's actually in really good shape, so no real demo.  Needs new roof, 3 piers replaced for the Addition, and 5 poles replaced in the basement. Otherwise, for both units, its pretty much new flooring throughout, new kitchen, new bathroom, outside paint job, and restoring porches on both levels. New windows mostly throughout. New doors mostly through out. Thats it, its largely cosmetic.

Hi Alex, you say the duplex is in really good shape, but then proceed to say that basically everything in the property needs to be replaced.  Kitchens, bathrooms, roofing, windows, flooring, porches & foundation issues.  Unless you are saying it already has all of that newly installed?...Those are all really expensive items and can easily add up to $35k+ per unit. Especially after you tack on a GC's profit & overhead of $10 to $15k.

How big is the property?  How many bedrooms/bathrooms & SF per unit?

Since it's a duplex everything is essentially 2x

Hi @David Robertson!

Okay, maybe "really good shape" is in the eye of the beholder. The property itself, the bones, are in really good shape (except for the piers underneath the back addition).

The foundation is excellent. I had a Structural Engineer come out and review the foundation as well as the addition and sloping floor (to diagnose the problem). Not foundation related, thankfully.

The Duplex is 3,000 sq.

So, said another way, the home isn't going to collapse and all I really have to do is bring it to code, while adding some niceties for the area. Thank God!

This post has been removed.

3,000 sf is a big duplex...that's 1,500 sf per side, so probably a 3 bed, 1 to 2 bath?  

I'm gonna make a lot of assumptions here just to prove the point that I think your Contractor's quotes of $70k to $80k seem fair.

  • Roof - 30  SQs x $300 to $400 /SQ = $9,000 to $12k
  • Kitchens (assuming rental grade cabinets/counters & appliances) - $6k to $8k each x 2 kitchens = $12k to $16k
  • Bathrooms (assuming rental grade finishes & fixtures) - $3k to $5k each x2 or 4 bathrooms?  = $12k to $20k
  • Foundation pier repair (depends) - $1k to $10k+
  • Vinyl Windows (maybe 8 windows per side?) - $250 to $400 each x 16 = $4,000 to $6,400
  • New doors throughout (maybe 8 doors per side?) $150 to $250 each x 16 = $2,400 to $4,000
  • Flooring throughout (half carpet/half vinyl plank) - 1500sf x $2.00/sf = $3,000 for carpet, 1500 sf x $4.00/sf =$6,000 for Vinyl Plank
  • Porch repair (not sure what this means, just replacing decking?)
  • New furnace $3 to $5k

Total Range for the Items you mentioned: $52,400 to $82,400

But the problem is you forgot to mention all of the other things you will need in your estimate:

  • Demolition? $1k to $2k
  • Dumpster? $500
  • Permits - generally 1% of costs 
  • Subflooring patching when you remodel the kitchen/bathrooms
  • Exterior Painting? $4k to $7k
  • Interior Painting? $4k to $7k
  • Electrical panel or re-wiring?
  • Plumbing piping, hot water heater, etc
  • HVAC?

And then of course the GC has to make a profit for managing the project.  I'm sure the GC would like to make at least 10 to 20% of the project costs which would tack on an extra $10k to $15k.

With all of those assumptions, you can see why I don't think $70k is an unreasonable estimate for the project.

As JScott recommends in his book, when estimating costs for projects you need to put together a detailed list of every repair and then price out each repair.  I think once you go through that process you will see that these quotes aren't that crazy.

Hey Alex, I sent you a message. I might be able to help you here. I have a guy in Buffalo who can do a walk-through for you and I can use my experience to give you a price. We operate in Syracuse ourselves but occasionally venture outwards. 

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