Cautionary tale about condos or good deal in tight metro market?

Cautionary tale about condos or good deal in tight metro market?

Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 46 votes

There are different schools of thought on investing in condos so I’d love perspectives on this deal that looks amazing on its surface… until I found the "gotcha"

Background: I'm looking for my second investment property. My first was building an airbnb in our basement, so I haven't yet had the experience of analyzing and actually purchasing a secondary property. I've been obsessively practicing using the BRRRR calculator and finally came upon this deal that seemed like my golden "first deal" ticket.

The property: It's a bank-owned 3br/2.5 ba condo in an upscale suburb of Portland, OR. It needs cosmetic work to the point where it shows terribly (busted counters, decrepit fixtures, terrible flooring and paint, etc.). But, the schools are all 10's! The HOA has an onsite pool and access to an exclusive neighborhood rec center with legit gym, free fitness classes, childcare, kids pool, lap pool, party space, etc.

The deal: It's listed for $170k. The same floor plan is selling for around $230-$240k in the same complex. HOA dues listed as $509 (seemed high, but numbers still checked out). Rent comps for 3br condos/apartments in the area range from $2100 (slightly lower rated schools and no access to exclusive rec center) to $3000. My plan was to make a cash offer of $160k, put $10k into cosmetic updates, rent for ~$2300 (conservative estimate, more if possible), and refi hopefully at an ARV of ~$225k. The numbers on that plan look pretty attractive and I'd pull out more than I put in!

My agent called the listing agent and that's where things got dicey. He mentioned that the HOA dues just went up and recent buyers were obviously upset, some trying to offload their recent purchases. But he said it used to be $226 and $509 was the new amount. He said they were having consistent showings but no interest because it looks terrible and most of the folks coming through were FHA and turned off by the amount of work needed. He said he would happily entertain any offer.

I was so enamored with the numbers that I had planned to go see it in person this week and then make my offer. However I've always hated the idea of HOAs and feeling like I'm essentially renting my property, so I started digging into all the HOA docs (as of course any investor should), and fell down the rabbit hole of the HOA website. Turns out the listing agent was wrong and the HOA just issued a special assessment, which will raise the dues in 2020 from $509 to… $785!! It's to cover a 20-yr bank loan needed to complete a $8.5M dollar project to replace all siding (there's been a water problem), stairs, decks and sliding doors on all 125 units. Further, the original bids for the project were coming in at around $15M, but eventually they got one contractor down to $8.5M, which is the estimate the special assessment increase is based on. A recent letter to owners from the HOA said $785 is just an estimate and couldn't legally be relied on for sales/purchases of the condos. And we all know how likely it is that the project doesn't (gasp) go over budget!

So my questions are:

  • 1. Is this a great example of why you shouldn’t buy condos? The potential for special assessments can ruin your investment.
  • 2. Even with the high HOA dues, it has the potential to cashflow at least $111/mo, and maybe more if I can charge higher rent based on comps. Does that mean I should still consider it? If I can refi at an ARV of even just $213,500, I'll still have pulled all my own cash back out.
  • 3. Should I be scared of an ongoing project of that scope being done around my rental?
  • 4. How big a hit is an HOA fee of $785 on resale value?
  • 5. How much do you love or hate condos as investments?

Thanks for any and all feedback/insights.

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Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

@Cori Leste that all sounds very scary to me. When I have owned condos it has always been the board of directors that kept me up at night. The biggest problem in this type of situation is the threat the board feels when making decisions because of a potential personal liability if it is shown they are negligent. What ends up happening is the project ends up in the hands of attorneys, engineers, project managers, a large contractor, a management company and a board that is not qualified to be involved in a large project and usually any project for that matter. The possible downside here is much larger than the upside at best.

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  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Cori Leste that all sounds very scary to me. When I have owned condos it has always been the board of directors that kept me up at night. The biggest problem in this type of situation is the threat the board feels when making decisions because of a potential personal liability if it is shown they are negligent. What ends up happening is the project ends up in the hands of attorneys, engineers, project managers, a large contractor, a management company and a board that is not qualified to be involved in a large project and usually any project for that matter. The possible downside here is much larger than the upside at best.

  • Rental Property Investor · Greenwich, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Yes, @Cori Leste, this is exactly why condos are a dicey proposition. The other major potential issue that you don't touch on here is that some associations limit either the percentage of units that can be rentals, the length of time an owner can rent their (1 or 2 years max) unit or both.

    One thing that confused me about your post: "HOA issued a special assessment that raised the fee." That's not what a special assessment is. A special assessment is usually a one-time charge, not an increase in the monthly fee.

    Be that as it may, I would definitely not do this deal. Besides the $785/month that you're losing, there are a lot of "maybes" here, and the cash flow is terrible. Lastly, I'd be worried about the management (physical and financial) of the complex.

  • Investor · Newberg, OR · Member since 2012 · 161 posts · 82 votes
    7y

    @Cori Leste is it Tanglewood in L.O.? Those condos have struggled to fix their problems for years! Multiple special assessments. I have never invested in condos but when I was working with buyers I sold a fair amount. Some things to keep in mind. There are often restrictions on how many rentals are allowed. If there aren't then its probably not FHA approved and may be more difficult to resell. You absolutely have to get involved with the board on some level as their decisions good or bad are going to have a huge impact on your investment. Always be on the look out for special assessments or impending special assessments.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 46 votes
    7y

    @Jaysen Medhurst Not sure if it is technically a “special assessment”. But it is supposed to be temporary... for 20 years, the length of the loan period.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 46 votes
    7y

    @Jeff S. Yeah, the management of a project of this scope by a group of people who are not experts and have a lot at stake seems ripe for trouble. Thanks for that additional perspective.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 46 votes
    7y

    @Lisa Thoele Yes, Tanglewood. The name itself seems ominous, ha! It’s helpful hearing everyone’s perspectives on the pitfalls about condos, especially this one in L.O. In the words of Marc Cuban, “I’m out”.

  • Real Estate Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2012 · 70 posts · 26 votes
    7y

    This all clears up some pondering i've been doing lately about why builders don't seem to be doing condo projects anymore.   And in turn,  1st time home buyers aren't into them either.   Perhaps a chicken and egg situation there, or maybe the word is on the street and realtors steer newbies away from condos these days.    Its apartments apartments apartments.   Rent rent rent.   

    Condos used to be the thing you bought first when you couldn't yet afford a free standing house (that wasn't out in the sticks). They filled that gap for people. Then the siding lawsuits went nuts in the late 80's early 90's. Then I'm guessing at that point lawyers made everyone on boards personally liable. Which in turn made boards want to get every expensive expert and contractor possible involved anytime something needs fixing. Which in turn created jumbo special assessments and HOA's.

    It's too bad.   Condo's would otherwise be helping to ease the housing crunch right now.   But any new condo project would have to be built practically bulletproof to avoid lawsuits.  But then the prices would be too high and scare away the first time buyers anyway.   Sheesh.   

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