Negative Cash Flow VS Equity Accumulation & Tax Benefits ?

Negative Cash Flow VS Equity Accumulation & Tax Benefits ?

Rental Property Investor · Montreal, QC · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 2 votes

I'm in a Hot Market with high prices where Cash Flowing properties are rare (Montreal, Canada)

Would you be willing to take a deal with negative cash flow for the first 5 years (2-5K $ per year) if it offers:

  • Appreciation potential
  • Equity accumulation ( Around 250K over 5 year)
  • And tax benefits + deduction (Around 60K / year between operating expenses, loan interest and depreciation) ? 
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    Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Axel Lafortune:

    I'm in a Hot Market with high prices where Cash Flowing properties are rare (Montreal, Canada)

    Would you be willing to take a deal with negative cash flow for the first 5 years (2-5K $ per year) if it offers:

    • Appreciation potential
    • Equity accumulation ( Around 250K over 5 year)
    • And tax benefits + deduction (Around 60K / year between operating expenses, loan interest and depreciation) ? 

      Relying on appreciation only is just another form of gambling.  It's like going to the casino and either betting black or red on roulette.  Mind you there were a LOT of lucky gamblers, at least in the GTA over the past decade. 

      See this reply in the discussion

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      • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
        Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
        6y

        No

      • Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 1 vote
        6y

        @Axel Lafortune You can only depreciate on capital gains, so depreciation wouldn’t apply in your situation.

      • Rental Property Investor · Montreal, QC · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 2 votes
        6y

        @Account Closed I was refering to the land portion depreciation

      • Rental Property Investor · Saint-Hubert, Québec · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 44 votes
        6y

        To be honest, I wouldn't base my investment decisions on appreciation only. How big is the building? How much will you put down? Can you do some value add? Is the negative cashflow after management, repairs, capex, vacancy etc. ? Those are all questions you should ask yourself. Keep in mind you will also have to deal with the Régie du Logement, which is quite strict on rental increases.

        From what I've heard, deals in Montreal are rare and if you manage to find one, you better be the fastest man on the planet to make an offer cause they go fast. Why not look outside Montreal? I think it would be a mistake to limit yourself to Montreal only, considering there are much cheaper properties to be had outside that region.

        Best of luck!

      • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
        6y

        Well, if you really want to be in Montreal then you may not have much choice.  Don't know how taxes work in CDN on operating losses, but that may help you offset some operating income?

        In general, if it's losing money from day one, I'd need a pretty compelling reason.  Even if Montreal is a very nice place :)

      • Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 891 votes
        6y
        Originally posted by @Axel Lafortune:

        I'm in a Hot Market with high prices where Cash Flowing properties are rare (Montreal, Canada)

        Would you be willing to take a deal with negative cash flow for the first 5 years (2-5K $ per year) if it offers:

        • Appreciation potential
        • Equity accumulation ( Around 250K over 5 year)
        • And tax benefits + deduction (Around 60K / year between operating expenses, loan interest and depreciation) ? 

           Sounds like Toronto because the ratios just doesn't make sense. I personally would not do it for a single tenant rental. If you can create multiple streams of income with additional tenants whether its units, rooms etc  then it might be worthwhile for the location.. 

          In Toronto the rental market has been inflated for years but now has calm down and rates are declining.. thus adding more risk for an investor and in your case potentially higher debt with lower rental rates and even occupancy.. 

          $250k equity in 5 years is one heck of a debt to have on one property with one tenant.. That's why multi family space is so crowded as you are diversifying your occupancy with multiple tenants..

          Most of the investors who consider this route already have high paying jobs or business that can handle a catastrophe 

        • Rental Property Investor · RVA · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
          6y

          No. Appreciation potential is gambling as far as I'm concerned. Equity paydown is also rather slow. Depreciation has recapture tax (at least in the US), so it's not always all it's cracked up to be.

          Cash flow and forced appreciation for the win

        • Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
          6y
          Originally posted by @Axel Lafortune:

          I'm in a Hot Market with high prices where Cash Flowing properties are rare (Montreal, Canada)

          Would you be willing to take a deal with negative cash flow for the first 5 years (2-5K $ per year) if it offers:

          • Appreciation potential
          • Equity accumulation ( Around 250K over 5 year)
          • And tax benefits + deduction (Around 60K / year between operating expenses, loan interest and depreciation) ? 

            Relying on appreciation only is just another form of gambling.  It's like going to the casino and either betting black or red on roulette.  Mind you there were a LOT of lucky gamblers, at least in the GTA over the past decade. 

          • Rental Property Investor · Montreal, QC · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 2 votes
            6y

            @Frederic Babeux @Hai Loc @Taylor L. @Chad U. Thanks everyone for the feedback!

            In a competitive market, forced appreciation seems to be what I should aim at after I find a deal.

            I forgot to precise this but my comment was related to house hacking a Triplex

            @Frederic Babeux the decision to start with montreal, at least for the start is because my girlfriend and I work here and we wanted to house hack as an initial investment.

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