Facebook will now let some employees work from anywhere

36 Replies

Facebook Work From Anywhere
I’m sure a lot of you have hear about this but if not, I’m sharing! Thought this would be a great discussion topic. Facebook is allowing a number of new hires and current employees to work from anywhere going forward (more permanently). See link to Reuter’s video  on first line of this post. But where do we think these techies might move to? Seems like a great opportunity for secondary markets. 


I think we were headed towards a more work remotely society, but the pandemic definitely made it move quicker, so I am not surprised that FB among other large companies has allowed their employees to work from home permanently. As for where they would move to, I would anticipate that they would move to an area that would allow more financial flexibility where cost of living is lower. 

I know a few  of those people who are told they can work from anywhere.
This is not scientific , just talking to around 20 or so friends here in the valley

40% go back home - Mostly midwest

20% - Texas

20% - Nearby states (Nevada, Oregon, Phoenix etc)

10% - CA other cities, (San Diago is high on the list)

10%- In bay area but out of SF, Expensive areas.

I am guess real estate prices will fall hard next year.

@Brian Singh I noticed a similar trend with a slightly larger skew to other parts of CA. 

A group of coworkers are moving to a Truckee for the summer but most are leaving to be with family (in state or out of state) 

Almost everyone Ive spoken with (without kids) and whom live in the city are looking to break out of their lease now that WFH has been officially accepted until the end of the year.

Mark Z. made sure to qualify his company's policy and said that you may be able to work form anywhere, but your salary will be adjusted to the cost of living commensurate with the area you live. So don't expect a Silicon Valley wage in Montana. They also added another caveat that it was not a blanket policy and it would be or available for high performers, tenured employees or management level.

Lawrence. If you making 100K in SF as a IC3 coder and move to Montana you will be paid 90K . Its not going to be 70K. Just understand the tech companies want us to move. It better for them, they not going to penalize you for it.

I checked with my manager and HR, if manager says you are good and can work remtely, you can move. The following are on the list that I know of

1. Sales

2. Marketing

3. Coders( Dev , full stack, back end)

4. Finance and Ops

5. Network security engineers

So most people have done the math and we all the coming ahead. Taxes if we move to texas or cost of living if we move to midwest.
#Calexit is real

Originally posted by @Brian Singh :

I am guess real estate prices will fall hard next year. 

 Places with high real estate prices will level off. The fundamental reasons their prices are high in the first place remain solidly entrenched. Look for prices in the places where people are moving to (NV, TX, etc.) to increase.

@Andrew Kouri - We have a couple of super-low tax towns here in the lakes/mountains region of NH: Hebron and Bridgewater; both sit on Newfound Lake and are a half hour or so from Waterville Valley and Loon ski areas.......worth checking out if you're considering this part of the state. We also have IRS opportunity zones in this area if you're considering buying investment properties. Happy to provide any input you might need up here!  :)

@Andrew Kouri Anywhere in the country has lower taxes than Cali. However, if you're looking in NH, be aware that the property taxes are higher than other states (comparatively speaking) because they do not have sales tax.

Just because folks can work REMOTELY doesn't mean and doesn't correlate to people MOVING.

If you work for a tech company in the Valley, for example, and they pay you commensurate with experience and in-line with your local costs, and you like where you live, why would you move? You would work remotely from where you are.

Some people may move, for sure, but moving is not a small feat. I couldn't put a number on the percentage of what it might be, but I'd be surprised if its anything higher than 10%.

I've been able to work remotely (thankfully!) for the past 6 years. Guess where I've done it...in the place I've called home for 10 years. I'm not moving. I have roots here, my wife has family nearby, and we are mostly satisfied with our neighborhood.

I think this is a GOOD thing for investors. High demand areas will continue to be high demand and homeowners/renters will seek to make their homes even more important aspects of their lives. It is incumbent upon us as investors, landlords, property managers, et al, to continue to provide quality housing for these folks.

The adjustment for your total compensation is going to be more than 10%. (I assume the number is just for illustration purpose). 
They might keep the base change relatively small as nobody wants to start getting a much smaller paycheck, but they will reduce the RSU refresh significantly in the upcoming cycle.  They want you to move because they want to reduce R&D code significantly and 10% is not enough given the overhead introduced in a completely distributed organization. And, don't forget the new people they hire will start with a much lower total compensation package and when the time comes, they will let go those people that started with a fat Bay Area salary.

I don't disagree with you that a lot people will move out of Bay Area, but at end of day, people like SF Bay Area/New York, they will always be the hubs of the world at least in next 50 years. People, especially young ones want access to things only major cities can offer.  We still live in a fairly physical world, there are too many things can only be experienced in person.  


Originally posted by @Brian Singh :

Lawrence. If you making 100K in SF as a IC3 coder and move to Montana you will be paid 90K . Its not going to be 70K. Just understand the tech companies want us to move. It better for them, they not going to penalize you for it.

I checked with my manager and HR, if manager says you are good and can work remtely, you can move. The following are on the list that I know of

1. Sales

2. Marketing

3. Coders( Dev , full stack, back end)

4. Finance and Ops

5. Network security engineers

So most people have done the math and we all the coming ahead. Taxes if we move to texas or cost of living if we move to midwest.
#Calexit is real

 

Well said. People don't just live to work, they also live to live. 

Originally posted by @Joe P. :

Just because folks can work REMOTELY doesn't mean and doesn't correlate to people MOVING.

If you work for a tech company in the Valley, for example, and they pay you commensurate with experience and in-line with your local costs, and you like where you live, why would you move? You would work remotely from where you are.

Some people may move, for sure, but moving is not a small feat. I couldn't put a number on the percentage of what it might be, but I'd be surprised if its anything higher than 10%.

I've been able to work remotely (thankfully!) for the past 6 years. Guess where I've done it...in the place I've called home for 10 years. I'm not moving. I have roots here, my wife has family nearby, and we are mostly satisfied with our neighborhood.

I think this is a GOOD thing for investors. High demand areas will continue to be high demand and homeowners/renters will seek to make their homes even more important aspects of their lives. It is incumbent upon us as investors, landlords, property managers, et al, to continue to provide quality housing for these folks.

 

Originally posted by @Richard Dale-Mesaros :

@Andrew Kouri - We have a couple of super-low tax towns here in the lakes/mountains region of NH: Hebron and Bridgewater; both sit on Newfound Lake and are a half hour or so from Waterville Valley and Loon ski areas.......worth checking out if you're considering this part of the state. We also have IRS opportunity zones in this area if you're considering buying investment properties. Happy to provide any input you might need up here!  :)

Thanks! I will check those towns out and look into how to invest with opportunity zones. Do you know if that's something you have to set up a fund for, or can I offset my personal capital gains with a personal house?

 

Yes, if you married with kids and have your Own house and love bay area . You are not moving.

Not sure what the % make of that profile is. But I would say 25% of the people are definitely moving.

Originally posted by @Barry Wang :
Well said. People don't just live to work, they also live to live. 

Originally posted by @Joe P.:

Just because folks can work REMOTELY doesn't mean and doesn't correlate to people MOVING.

If you work for a tech company in the Valley, for example, and they pay you commensurate with experience and in-line with your local costs, and you like where you live, why would you move? You would work remotely from where you are.

Some people may move, for sure, but moving is not a small feat. I couldn't put a number on the percentage of what it might be, but I'd be surprised if its anything higher than 10%.

I've been able to work remotely (thankfully!) for the past 6 years. Guess where I've done it...in the place I've called home for 10 years. I'm not moving. I have roots here, my wife has family nearby, and we are mostly satisfied with our neighborhood.

I think this is a GOOD thing for investors. High demand areas will continue to be high demand and homeowners/renters will seek to make their homes even more important aspects of their lives. It is incumbent upon us as investors, landlords, property managers, et al, to continue to provide quality housing for these folks.

 

 

Originally posted by @Ashtynn Baltimore :

Facebook Work From Anywhere
I’m sure a lot of you have hear about this but if not, I’m sharing! Thought this would be a great discussion topic. Facebook is allowing a number of new hires and current employees to work from anywhere going forward (more permanently). See link to Reuter’s video  on first line of this post. But where do we think these techies might move to? Seems like a great opportunity for secondary markets. 


This seems a sensible move by Facebook and very likely more companies will do the same. The main reason I can think of that may justify physically going to an office is privacy (for instance a business meeting where confidential information is shared). However, I guess a leading technology company should be able to maintain secure long distance communications, conference calls etc

It could change the current landscape of real estate prices, and also alter the prices for office space. It could help burst bubble prices at some local markets and push prices in other areas that are nice to live but where salaries and work opportunities are not so good.

I hope working remotely becomes a global trend. It could open up interesting opportunities from a tax perspective.

Depending on how often they need to meet up in person, I can see a portion of them moving to more affordable (and more family friendly) Northern California cities:  Roseville, El Dorado Hills, Folsom, Lincoln, Granite Bay, Auburn, etc.  This would put them within 2 hours of headquarters but still living the California dream.  Most of my newer neighbors in this area have relocated from the Bay Area or So Cal citing slower pace of life, a desire for family-centric neighborhoods, and their housing dollars stretching much further.

My crystal ball says that 40% move to Tahiti, 20% to Bahamas, 20% an upcoming island and 10% to Mars, thanks to SpaceX..

In all seriousness, I have lived in some of the most expensive RE markets in the world, London, NYC and now Bay Area. They are expensive for a reason. It takes a certain type to survive in such places. The best of the best make it and rest move out. Its not for everyone.

And this is not just in the US but across the globe. Look at cities such as Paris, Hong Kong, Mumbai,Tel Aviv etc. People will always want to live in these places which are a melting pot with diverse population, younger crowd, job opportunities and indescribable energy. Cheaper locations, larger homes, simple and easy life will just not satisfy these people who want to live in these places. And from 9B population it takes very few people to make these places as expensive as they are. 

I'm a real estate agent in NYC and in the last few weeks I've seen a handful of people decide to move back home to be closer to family. I've also seen people exiting New York for other reasons but they were also already thinking about it, and current events precipitated a change.

Personally, I'm very interested to see what happens in cities like Austin, Atlanta, and Nashville that provide more space and a lower cost of living vs. NYC. I think Austin in particular will continue to see growth since it's becoming more of a technology hub and is a city I plan on investing in. 

@Brian Singh

I think the recent work from home hysteria is a fallacy. Conceptually, working from home has NOTHING to due with covid 19. If it’s so awesome, why wasn’t it adapted en mass years ago? Yahoo a couple years back even rolled back WFH. It’s a trend that will have some effect yes, but it’s being way over hyped. For two main reasons: 1- I’m not sure it will really provide long term benefits to the tech firms jumping on the bandwagon now 2- I’m not sure how many employees will ultimately like it, after the forced-Covid-novelty wears off. i.e. it’s hard to get all those cool tech co benefits like free gourmet food, gyms, awesome office spaces, etc., etc. piped over a zoom meeting.

As for WFH effect on the Bay Area, keep in mind that when people work from home, their direct environment becomes MORE, not less important. Would you rather be home based in the Bay Area with tons of things to do nearby, good weather, lots of nature, etc. or someplace with little culture, extreme temperatures, bland immediate environment, etc., etc. There is a reason many people, who can afford to do so, aspire to live in CA and especially the Bay Area. Working from home isn’t going to radically change those aspirations.

Originally posted by @Brian Singh :

Lawrence. If you making 100K in SF as a IC3 coder and move to Montana you will be paid 90K . Its not going to be 70K. Just understand the tech companies want us to move. It better for them, they not going to penalize you for it.

I checked with my manager and HR, if manager says you are good and can work remtely, you can move. The following are on the list that I know of

1. Sales

2. Marketing

3. Coders( Dev , full stack, back end)

4. Finance and Ops

5. Network security engineers

So most people have done the math and we all the coming ahead. Taxes if we move to texas or cost of living if we move to midwest.
#Calexit is real




Have you considered the next logical step? Why Montana? Why not Manila? Or Bangalore? Why hire expensive Americans at all? Your 100K job now became a 20K job. This is why FB and other companies are so eager to push ahead with the work at home plan. 

Originally posted by @Amit M. :

@Brian Singh

I think the recent work from home hysteria is a fallacy. Conceptually, working from home has NOTHING to due with covid 19. If it’s so awesome, why wasn’t it adapted en mass years ago? Yahoo a couple years back even rolled back WFH. It’s a trend that will have some effect yes, but it’s being way over hyped. For two main reasons: 1- I’m not sure it will really provide long term benefits to the tech firms jumping on the bandwagon now 2- I’m not sure how many employees will ultimately like it, after the forced-Covid-novelty wears off. i.e. it’s hard to get all those cool tech co benefits like free gourmet food, gyms, awesome office spaces, etc., etc. piped over a zoom meeting.

As for WFH effect on the Bay Area, keep in mind that when people work from home, their direct environment becomes MORE, not less important. Would you rather be home based in the Bay Area with tons of things to do nearby, good weather, lots of nature, etc. or someplace with little culture, extreme temperatures, bland immediate environment, etc., etc. There is a reason many people, who can afford to do so, aspire to live in CA and especially the Bay Area. Working from home isn’t going to radically change those aspirations.

 I somewhat agree. And for those with kids it is still a place of great education and possibilities. But the single young engineer doesn't need to live in Mountain View anymore. Or Cupertino. You can live in Sonoma or Santa Cruz or Half moon bay etc. Rental market will be affected I think more than home values.