Brandon Turner Nails it on the COVID-19 Rent Due Advice
Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes
Brandon Turner Nails it on the COVID-19 Rent Due Advice
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6yYea...I watched it. I told Brandon to F-off more than once as I did. I will also say there were many very good points made, so he got a couple "right-ons" from me too. (I like Brandon a lot) And before I write some harsh criticism, I'd like to open with the fact that Brandon is showing and advising compassion, and I say Bravo in a big way for that.
Sigh. I know I have a very different take on all of this than most everyone else. I get that.
What is most disappointing about the video to me, is that Brandon Turner and Bigger Pockets have much influence over the decisions of others. This was an opportunity that could have been used to offer the right solution, and instead it was used as a self-serving one. The first F-You came when he asked people to Subscribe to his channel. A few more came along the way during the meat of the content, and a big one at the end when he used the opportunity to pitch his book. The thing that makes me the most mad about that, and mind you I generally have zero ill-will against anyone who is self-serving for their own gain, I am 100% pro-entrepreneur, is that this is the time when people of influence ought to be doing the right thing for everyone, not just themselves. No half measures, no self-serving BS wrapped in Lets help the world clothing. Brandon's true colors and level of analytical intellect have shown themselves to me. What can I say, it rubbed me the wrong way. But I dunno - who am I, a guy with 4 doors. I aint no Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. I aint written no best selling books lately, or ever. I'm probably just a fool of the world.
But let me back up that incredibly harsh criticism.
These are unprecedented times. Should probably say that twice. Maybe ten times. There is zero history that can be resourced that will spell out exactly what we are in for. There is much history that can be resourced to piece it together, yet no amount of piecing it together (absent of blind analytical luck) will predict what is coming accurately. In other words, none of us know what's coming, no matter how much we like to believe we might. I also suspect the outcome is variable, another lesson from history.
There is no way that shutting down the world will not have a profound affect on the global economy, that much is a clear and sound prediction.
What does that mean? What does that look like this time? What do we do? What is the best action for ourselves? What are the best actions for everyone? Is it possible that certain actions we take for ourselves might also be the best actions for everyone? Is it possible that actions we take could make the world better? Make us recover faster? Avoid certain fates even? Can the same go the other way? Can certain actions we take now make things worse?
I say the answer to those last questions is yes.
Let's think this through a second. The rental market is going to collapse. There will be moratoriums on evictions. There will be vacancies as people move in together. This thing is going to spiral down and feed off itself before it finally bottoms and starts going up again. That's what we're looking at here, in the best case scenario. The government intervention and assistance that might come is unknown. Further, there is only so much the government can do. This will happen whether or not banks offer grace, which they hopefully will. I think those of you who think this is all going to blow over and return to normal in a few months are dead wrong.
Brandon says he will offer deferments. A noble and compassionate idea - bravo. It's also of course an act of self-preservation. I hope everyone at least considers doing it too. But how is that really going to play out? Then everyone is playing catch-up, and for how long? Brandon's idea essentially equals an increase in rent, some might call that inflation. How well is that going to work when what we are looking at is an economic downturn? How are people going to have more money to pay rent when they will have less money over-all? That doesn't really add up, and what people are going to find out, which is one of the main economic principles we must never forget, is that the market dictates prices. (Gasoline dropped from about $2.50 to $1.50 in the last two weeks.) Does anyone really suppose higher rents are going to happen as vacancies increase? Do you expect to tell your tenants they must rent from you and no other??? LOL. I don't think Brandon's plan is going to shake out like he hopes it does. And, I hope it does shake out like he hopes, to be fair about this whole critique. I hope I'm the dummy, but I don't think I am. I think Brandon's plan of rent deferment via future rent increase is going to be like trying to plug a sinking ship with lots of holes with too few fingers. I think he puts too much faith in a lease agreement and peoples value of their own credit in tough times.
What the entire country needs right now is stimulus. Not next week, right now. The longer we wait to provide it, the more the economy will suffer. The sooner we provide it, the less the adverse affect. Again, a lesson we can look back on history and source conclusions from.
I know my conclusions are debatable and my solutions are highly idealistic. I know the course of action I suggest will in fact not be taken by most, or is even possible to take for some. But what I think the landlords of the world need to do is offer April rent as a gift. Not a deferment, a gift. Imagine for a second if it was possible, and everyone did it, all at the same time. I'm not talking about providing free housing for all of eternity - of course not. But what about right now, this moment in time, just for now? Just this month, and maybe the next? What if those with mortgages were able and willing to just put their profit projections back for one or two months meaning, that property of yours will take one or two months more to pay off so, 30 years and two months for example. Is that really not a feasible possibility? And, is that really anything different than suffering a vacancy?
I like Brandon, he's great. I love Bigger Pockets. It's the greatest thing ever for all that is REI. I think everyone knows that. That's why it's as big as it is. That's why I think Bigger Pockets has influence and could, if they chose to do so, be a force to help the world in a massive way. I think the opposite is true as well, BP has the power to steer everyone wrong. I also hope I can still write a criticism/commentary like I am on this platform and not be censored for saying it - lol. Which brings about an even scarier sort of thought now doesn't it?
These are unprecedented times. I'm not sure how many times that can be said. This is not the shutdown of 09, or the Great Depression. This is a global, world-wide event. This has never happened in the history of the world. You can't compare what is happening now to the Spanish Flu or Bubonic Plague or even the most similar of outbreaks, Sars from a couple years ago. The difference is what we are doing, globally, to fight the outbreak. It's a concoction, perfect storm, call it a Witches Brew if you're cynical like me, as we have never gone through ever. Can we really apply solutions of the past to this unique problem of today and expect a similar outcome? I say the answer is the solutions of the past will only be as effective today as they are relevant to today's circumstance.
And to be fair with this critique, I don't for a second think I have all the answers either. And so therefore, I'm not going to post a podcast, using confidence tricks to get my point across, telling people what I'm doing and inferring they might be wise to do the same. Instead I am going to offer the only solution that makes a lick of sense to me today, to help nip this thing in the bud for tomorrow, which is that the impact of offering a months grace is a good thing that will have good consequences. I already did it for my tenants for April. No deferment, no raise in rent, April is free. I've had time to reflect on that action and as every minute goes by, I'm more confident my decision was the right one. For me, for my tenants, for my financial future, for their financial future, for the love of humanity and for goodness sake.
If the rest of you want to go another route, I don't blame you and I don't judge you either. This is my opinion and for now, everyone is free to have one.
50 Replies
- 6yKenneth GarrettPro MemberInvestor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
The rent deferral has some merit. I believe in communicating with your tenant. Hopefully your tenant will contact you to inform you they are having difficult in paying rent. What does this mean? Can they pay some or nothing? Usually they can pay some. Normally I wouldn’t accept partial payments because in my state it precludes you from filing an eviction because you have accepted a portion of the rent. So normally it’s all or nothing. This is with the understanding evictions are on hold at least for the month of April.
Listen to your tenant. Those who have tested positive, are sick or have been laid of off due to the pandemic are most likely going to receive some relief from a government program. Of course this sounds great, but how long will this relief take to actually receive the funds.
I have received a couple calls from tenants regarding this. One tenant employer had a number of projects pulled back so the work decreased, another in the restaurant industry. Work stoppage/slow down. I am working with them on reduced rent for the month if necessary. Deferral with a payback over the term of the lease makes sense as @Brandon Turner has suggested. $400 dollars short this month add $40 per month to the rent over the next 10 months. This seems vary reasonable. There can be many variables to this plan, but this certainly is a viable one.
As far as bringing in another border, I’m not a fan. If the property can support another occupant (occupant load per the city) and they pass your screening process then maybe. I’m not crazy about that plan, but if you are comfortable with it, it’s your business. I prefer the rent deferral plan.
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes6y
Thanks @Kenneth Garrett. It all seems somewhat fluid at this time regarding owners trying to formulate a plan to deal with the problem. Lots of suggestions being offered. I hadn't considered the partial payment precluding you from filing an eviction notice if needed down the road. Good point. Thanks!
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes6y
i told them to take a cash advance on their credit card
- 6yKenneth GarrettPro MemberInvestor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Has anyone viewed or used a form they could share that works with the emergency rental deduction plan Brandon Turner talks about?
- Rental Property Investor · Fort Collins Colorado · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 24 votes6y
There are various ways they can pay by Credit card including Cozy and Plastiq, PayPal Venno and maybe others. That would be my first suggestion. So far I haven't heard from anyone so I'm leaving well enough alone
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
i told them to take a cash advance on their credit card
This assumes they have a credit card and one with low interest rates. Having them do a cash advance on a credit card with 20% interest rates is not a good solution.
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
i told them to take a cash advance on their credit card
This assumes they have a credit card and one with low interest rates. Having them do a cash advance on a credit card with 20% interest rates is not a good solution.
It is for me
- Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Matthew McNeil:
QUESTION: Does anyone have thoughts regarding allowing a tenant to take in a border and use the money to help alleviate their financial stress. Granted, I realize that raises some legitimate concerns, but it might be an idea worth fleshing out.
During hard times, many renters will double up.
I've seen larger multi-family Class-A and Class-B properties with 11 people in a 2 bedroom (all related), only 2 working to support the whole group. I've also seen 5 in a 1 bedroom all working (all related), and 5 in a 1 bedroom only 1 working (all related).
When jobs are short, and vacancies start to elongate, money is money.
All 3 of these places didn't officially notice it, and just collected the monthly rent (win/win).
Turnover is a big expense.
Just my 2 cents.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Yea...I watched it. I told Brandon to F-off more than once as I did. I will also say there were many very good points made, so he got a couple "right-ons" from me too. (I like Brandon a lot) And before I write some harsh criticism, I'd like to open with the fact that Brandon is showing and advising compassion, and I say Bravo in a big way for that.
Sigh. I know I have a very different take on all of this than most everyone else. I get that.
What is most disappointing about the video to me, is that Brandon Turner and Bigger Pockets have much influence over the decisions of others. This was an opportunity that could have been used to offer the right solution, and instead it was used as a self-serving one. The first F-You came when he asked people to Subscribe to his channel. A few more came along the way during the meat of the content, and a big one at the end when he used the opportunity to pitch his book. The thing that makes me the most mad about that, and mind you I generally have zero ill-will against anyone who is self-serving for their own gain, I am 100% pro-entrepreneur, is that this is the time when people of influence ought to be doing the right thing for everyone, not just themselves. No half measures, no self-serving BS wrapped in Lets help the world clothing. Brandon's true colors and level of analytical intellect have shown themselves to me. What can I say, it rubbed me the wrong way. But I dunno - who am I, a guy with 4 doors. I aint no Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. I aint written no best selling books lately, or ever. I'm probably just a fool of the world.
But let me back up that incredibly harsh criticism.
These are unprecedented times. Should probably say that twice. Maybe ten times. There is zero history that can be resourced that will spell out exactly what we are in for. There is much history that can be resourced to piece it together, yet no amount of piecing it together (absent of blind analytical luck) will predict what is coming accurately. In other words, none of us know what's coming, no matter how much we like to believe we might. I also suspect the outcome is variable, another lesson from history.
There is no way that shutting down the world will not have a profound affect on the global economy, that much is a clear and sound prediction.
What does that mean? What does that look like this time? What do we do? What is the best action for ourselves? What are the best actions for everyone? Is it possible that certain actions we take for ourselves might also be the best actions for everyone? Is it possible that actions we take could make the world better? Make us recover faster? Avoid certain fates even? Can the same go the other way? Can certain actions we take now make things worse?
I say the answer to those last questions is yes.
Let's think this through a second. The rental market is going to collapse. There will be moratoriums on evictions. There will be vacancies as people move in together. This thing is going to spiral down and feed off itself before it finally bottoms and starts going up again. That's what we're looking at here, in the best case scenario. The government intervention and assistance that might come is unknown. Further, there is only so much the government can do. This will happen whether or not banks offer grace, which they hopefully will. I think those of you who think this is all going to blow over and return to normal in a few months are dead wrong.
Brandon says he will offer deferments. A noble and compassionate idea - bravo. It's also of course an act of self-preservation. I hope everyone at least considers doing it too. But how is that really going to play out? Then everyone is playing catch-up, and for how long? Brandon's idea essentially equals an increase in rent, some might call that inflation. How well is that going to work when what we are looking at is an economic downturn? How are people going to have more money to pay rent when they will have less money over-all? That doesn't really add up, and what people are going to find out, which is one of the main economic principles we must never forget, is that the market dictates prices. (Gasoline dropped from about $2.50 to $1.50 in the last two weeks.) Does anyone really suppose higher rents are going to happen as vacancies increase? Do you expect to tell your tenants they must rent from you and no other??? LOL. I don't think Brandon's plan is going to shake out like he hopes it does. And, I hope it does shake out like he hopes, to be fair about this whole critique. I hope I'm the dummy, but I don't think I am. I think Brandon's plan of rent deferment via future rent increase is going to be like trying to plug a sinking ship with lots of holes with too few fingers. I think he puts too much faith in a lease agreement and peoples value of their own credit in tough times.
What the entire country needs right now is stimulus. Not next week, right now. The longer we wait to provide it, the more the economy will suffer. The sooner we provide it, the less the adverse affect. Again, a lesson we can look back on history and source conclusions from.
I know my conclusions are debatable and my solutions are highly idealistic. I know the course of action I suggest will in fact not be taken by most, or is even possible to take for some. But what I think the landlords of the world need to do is offer April rent as a gift. Not a deferment, a gift. Imagine for a second if it was possible, and everyone did it, all at the same time. I'm not talking about providing free housing for all of eternity - of course not. But what about right now, this moment in time, just for now? Just this month, and maybe the next? What if those with mortgages were able and willing to just put their profit projections back for one or two months meaning, that property of yours will take one or two months more to pay off so, 30 years and two months for example. Is that really not a feasible possibility? And, is that really anything different than suffering a vacancy?
I like Brandon, he's great. I love Bigger Pockets. It's the greatest thing ever for all that is REI. I think everyone knows that. That's why it's as big as it is. That's why I think Bigger Pockets has influence and could, if they chose to do so, be a force to help the world in a massive way. I think the opposite is true as well, BP has the power to steer everyone wrong. I also hope I can still write a criticism/commentary like I am on this platform and not be censored for saying it - lol. Which brings about an even scarier sort of thought now doesn't it?
These are unprecedented times. I'm not sure how many times that can be said. This is not the shutdown of 09, or the Great Depression. This is a global, world-wide event. This has never happened in the history of the world. You can't compare what is happening now to the Spanish Flu or Bubonic Plague or even the most similar of outbreaks, Sars from a couple years ago. The difference is what we are doing, globally, to fight the outbreak. It's a concoction, perfect storm, call it a Witches Brew if you're cynical like me, as we have never gone through ever. Can we really apply solutions of the past to this unique problem of today and expect a similar outcome? I say the answer is the solutions of the past will only be as effective today as they are relevant to today's circumstance.
And to be fair with this critique, I don't for a second think I have all the answers either. And so therefore, I'm not going to post a podcast, using confidence tricks to get my point across, telling people what I'm doing and inferring they might be wise to do the same. Instead I am going to offer the only solution that makes a lick of sense to me today, to help nip this thing in the bud for tomorrow, which is that the impact of offering a months grace is a good thing that will have good consequences. I already did it for my tenants for April. No deferment, no raise in rent, April is free. I've had time to reflect on that action and as every minute goes by, I'm more confident my decision was the right one. For me, for my tenants, for my financial future, for their financial future, for the love of humanity and for goodness sake.
If the rest of you want to go another route, I don't blame you and I don't judge you either. This is my opinion and for now, everyone is free to have one.
- 6yRoy N.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
i told them to take a cash advance on their credit card
This assumes they have a credit card and one with low interest rates. Having them do a cash advance on a credit card with 20% interest rates is not a good solution.
It is for me
It's good for you only in the short term.
If you have a good tenant, than it is worth working with them through this morass.
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
i told them to take a cash advance on their credit card
your basic C D tennant probably has no credit card I mean half of them dont have checking accounts.. its an issue .
I think land lords just need to Triage and make the best decision they can.
3 weeks ago I made a post on BP about the same subject at the time landlords were still unclear how dramatic this would be so of course most said they would expect payment..
really depends on your tenant base..
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Instead I am going to offer the only solution that makes a lick of sense to me today, to help nip this thing in the bud for tomorrow, which is that the impact of offering a months grace is a good thing that will have good consequences. I already did it for my tenants for April. No deferment, no raise in rent, April is free. I've had time to reflect on that action and as every minute goes by, I'm more confident my decision was the right one. For me, for my tenants, for my financial future, for their financial future, for the love of humanity and for goodness sake.
If the rest of you want to go another route, I don't blame you and I don't judge you either. This is my opinion and for now, everyone is free to have one.
I am glad you are in a position to help your tenants and lessen their stress and worry. I am sure they appreciated it. I hope that others are able to help as their finances allow.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Instead I am going to offer the only solution that makes a lick of sense to me today, to help nip this thing in the bud for tomorrow, which is that the impact of offering a months grace is a good thing that will have good consequences. I already did it for my tenants for April. No deferment, no raise in rent, April is free. I've had time to reflect on that action and as every minute goes by, I'm more confident my decision was the right one. For me, for my tenants, for my financial future, for their financial future, for the love of humanity and for goodness sake.
If the rest of you want to go another route, I don't blame you and I don't judge you either. This is my opinion and for now, everyone is free to have one.
I am glad you are in a position to help your tenants and lessen their stress and worry. I am sure they appreciated it. I hope that others are able to help as their finances allow.
Thank you for your sentiment. I can tell you are a good person. I know from other posts/responses that you would like to be in a similar situation and if you felt you could help, would help. This is a distinction from those that value greed above all else, and those types abound here as well.
Yet I must point out that my actions are self-serving. Sure, it feels good to get the gratitude from my tenants and love from my wife. But in truth, the action serves me too, so let's get that clear. In normal times, I am virtually ruthless when it comes to non-payment of rent and never advise anyone to be anything else ever. I am no pay no stay all day everyday, in normal times.
What I get out of this are a couple of things. For starters, massive relief. Just like everyone else, I have been mind-scrambling to come up with the appropriate response to what we are going through. Just because I am mortgage free does not mean I am investment free. Most people use credit, I use sweat equity. I don't even bother to calculate the number of hours I spend fixing properties - it's too depressing and crazy. My points here are these - I am invested and don't think for a second I am someone who is willing to just give my efforts away on a whim to someone else - I'm not. The other is that this action made the whole thing incredibly simple. No contracts, alternative agreements, documentation of hardship, follow-ups - good grief - I'm done with it all. Is that worth anything to anyone?
The second thing is by waiving rent this month, my tenants are in a better position to pay next month. Vacancy is the bane of all landlords. Where does everyone expect to find fresh renters in the times to come? Who is so good at marketing that they will have zero vacancy in-between? My average turn time is 2 months.
Further on the same point, while all three of my tenants are what might be considered high-risk in terms of ability to pay, what they are not is disrespectful to my property. All of them take very good care of their units. I don't know about anyone else, but for me that sort of thing equates into very real and substantial dollars long-term. In fact I value that in a tenant above all else. I might even break my own rules and work with a tenant in normal times who went through a rough patch if they have not cost me money in wear and tear along the way - not so much for the other sort, and I would not hesitate to not renew with a good-paying tenant if they lived too hard in my property. (I am strictly month to month by the way.)
Which brings me to the third thing. We very well may be looking at a 2 month quarantine country-wide. Who is going to go to the property to fix it when something breaks? Just because something ought to be a certain way does not mean that's how it's really going to happen. Like the people who walk in front of your car in a snowstorm thinking you have to stop because it's illegal to hit a pedestrian with your car. Now that I have made it very clear to them I won't be coming to fix the property, and add the fact I have earned some love with them as a person, they are going to be extra careful from here on out to respect the property, and that might last long after this thing is over. Is that not worth something?
Fourth, goodwill is contagious. Something I find hilarious is the talk of property class in this forum. A-class, B-class, C-class, D-class. People think that if they have a better property that people with more means can afford, that somehow equates to the people renting from them being "better" people - lol. That is for the most part, ridiculous. Sure, there are some correlations there that can be made, but for the most part the renter class is the renter class and all the attitudes and implications that come with that, end of story. However property density occurs within all property classes. The urban areas of the world are where people go nuts, simply because there are more people and people are nuts sometimes - it's a numbers and close encounters thing. And, desperate times mean desperate measures. If you think A-class renters wouldn't eat you for breakfast in the Zombie apocalypse, think again - lol (maybe even faster than the d class). Now, of course the question at hand is what sort of apocalypse are we about to have? There is no question there is going to be one (already in it), the only question is what it's going to look like. Everyone hopes it will be "mild" - lol. But since when does hope dictate an outcome of events already in motion? Nobody knows what this is going to look like. People are scared, and don't have answers, and that compounds an already tense situation. So, what this long paragraph is getting at here, is that when people have a roof and food, they can stay calm. When good will has given them that when it didn't have to, that just might have a profound affect on that person. They might see the love and share it. Now, if I lived in the heart of the city I would sure want everyone to stay sane. And if all that took was for me to offer my love to the next person, why on Earth not? We have two paths we can choose for the times ahead. We can all help each other out or we can continue to be the narcissistic pricks we usually are. If we all work together, we are going to get through this faster and it will be less painful along the way. If we choose the other route, it will take longer and get ugly, potentially worse than ugly if we're honest about what the world really is. What I want in my buildings in these uncertain times are people that are on my side, and people in a position to help the next person out too. That's good for me, not just them, I benefit from that, not just them. Is that not worth something tangible to everyone else too?
So you see, this is not some socialist-minded gift I am proposing here. It's a stop-gap measure to ward off destruction and potentially tyranny. Let me end with this. How long do you suppose it is going to take for people to live without answers before the whole thing becomes chaos? Remember, this is not some isolated incident happening in some other town, this is happening globally in every part of the world. We need to make sure the next moves are the right ones.
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Nobody says A Class are better people . It just signify they do have money to spare.
So you have Class C and out of love waived April which hasnt even come yet. If you think they cant pay April what makes you think they can pay May?
Im not folowwing.
PS. Your avg turn time is way too long. Try halfing it.
I believe her point is that by giving them April for free, they will have time to look at their finances properly, apply for relief, have less stress overall and be in a better position come May 1.
- Specialist · Plano, TX · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 861 votes6y
@Matthew McNeil Awesome resource. Thank you for sharing it with us.
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes6y
@Account Closed
Merritt, so often I see BP threads that are playbacks of the same stuff that's being restated and rehashed in differing formats, or they're spelled out again for newbies who could be doing a simple search before posting their LLC question for example.
My takeaway from Brandon’s Emergency Rent Deferral Plan is that its a new topic. We're all navigating unfamiliar territory and he’s laid out a plan when many of us are scrambling to come up with any plan at all. So, congrats to him for at least getting some semblance of a framework on the table.
I also agree with your lengthy discourse. Maybe not everything you wrote, but you have made some valid points. In particular, I agree with the offer to give tenants one month’s rent free of charge because it allows the tenant to be better positioned to pay the following month’s rent. The key word being positioned. In other words, it acts as a leverage tool that actually empowers them because it gives them time to look for solutions whether it be applying for relief, seeking unemployment benefits, inviting a family member to move in with them, etc. It also sets a course that will end up being mutually beneficial for the tenant and property owner.
I see its value. Other's may not.
Thanks for sharing.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Nobody says A Class are better people . It just signify they do have money to spare.
So you have Class C and out of love waived April which hasnt even come yet. If you think they cant pay April what makes you think they can pay May?
Im not folowwing.
PS. Your avg turn time is way too long. Try halfing it.
Uhm...you realize you just referred to the people as A-class and not the property as A-class, right? lol
I agree my turn time is long. Not sure I can (or maybe willing is more accurate) do much about that. I won't sign until the tenant I have is out. I think the only way to get one tenant in the day after the other moves out is to market and show while the current tenant is in place, sign before the current tenant is actually out, then hope to heck the current tenant actually moves out - lol. I dunno...I'd rather lose the two months than go through all that. I don't have it in me to play with another persons living situation like that. I guess that makes me a bad businessman to some people. Though on the bright side, 80% of my tenants have asked me if I have other units for their friends and family so, I think I'll play that angle and work to reduce vacancy that way. Even better I reduce the friction between tenants in duplexes, and increase the tenants sense of security at the same time. I can live with that.
Welcome to BP.
- 6yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
@Gina Sgroa
You are incorrect . The executive order signed by President Trump freezes only foreclosures of houses having FHA loans, and evictions for HUD owned homes if any are rented out. All eviction freezes are at a state, city or count level.
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes6y
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
@Gina Sgroa
You are incorrect . The executive order signed by President Trump freezes only foreclosures of houses having FHA loans, and evictions for HUD owned homes if any are rented out. All eviction freezes are at a state, city or count level.
I've read a few articles that foreclosure freezing also applies to Freddie and Fannie.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news... - Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Matthew McNeil:
@Account Closed
Merritt, so often I see BP threads that are playbacks of the same stuff that's being restated and rehashed in differing formats, or they're spelled out again for newbies who could be doing a simple search before posting their LLC question for example.
My takeaway from Brandon’s Emergency Rent Deferral Plan is that its a new topic. We're all navigating unfamiliar territory and he’s laid out a plan when many of us are scrambling to come up with any plan at all. So, congrats to him for at least getting some semblance of a framework on the table.
I also agree with your lengthy discourse. Maybe not everything you wrote, but you have made some valid points. In particular, I agree with the offer to give tenants one month’s rent free of charge because it allows the tenant to be better positioned to pay the following month’s rent. The key word being positioned. In other words, it acts as a leverage tool that actually empowers them because it gives them time to look for solutions whether it be applying for relief, seeking unemployment benefits, inviting a family member to move in with them, etc. It also sets a course that will end up being mutually beneficial for the tenant and property owner.
I see its value. Other's may not.
Thanks for sharing.
You're right. I've been harsh. Brandon's advice offer's at least something in a time when we are all scrambling for answers. We all need answers right now. What I've done and suggesting others do as well is something that most landlords are not ever going to even consider, no matter how much sense it might make in hindsight - I know that - I suppose I just said it anyways. I'd guess any operator with tons of units who might have read it would have had a good laugh of it - well that's worth something then. I'm scared. We're all scared. I worry about things much worse than a virus or money to be honest. The stuff I wrote is like a long-shot from mid-court at the last second sort of hope. The reality is that this thing is going to be messy. I wrote this post and a few like it in other threads, I'm done, not that many read my long-winded posts anyways - lol.
Thanks Matthew.
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes6y
You're right. I've been harsh. Brandon's advice offer's at least something in a time when we are all scrambling for answers. We all need answers right now. What I've done and suggesting others do as well is something that most landlords are not ever going to even consider, no matter how much sense it might make in hindsight - I know that - I suppose I just said it anyways. I'd guess any operator with tons of units who might have read it would have had a good laugh of it - well that's worth something then. I'm scared. We're all scared. I worry about things much worse than a virus or money to be honest. The stuff I wrote is like a long-shot from mid-court at the last second sort of hope. The reality is that this thing is going to be messy. I wrote this post and a few like it in other threads, I'm done, not that many read my long-winded posts anyways - lol.
Thanks Matthew.
I live by the teaching; “To whom much is given, much is required.” I genuinely believe that ethical RE investors are held to a higher expectation and, therefore, we need to step up and forward in difficult and trying situations. We’re all scared and concerned. We’re intelligent people and I think we’re beginning to see what’s coming, and it’s not good.
If we don’t help each other, we’re all going to suffer. If I can help by enabling you to be better leveraged knowing it’s also going to help me in the end where-by we both mutually benefit then why not?! As I wrote previously; some will get it and many won't. I tip my hat to you for offering a bold step of faith in helping your fellow man. - Real Estate Agent · Naperville, IL · Member since 2014 · 196 posts · 130 votes6y
I haven't gotten any calls yet but will definitely work with all my tenants (they all happen to be pretty solid) that have issues. Also I don't believe anyone mentioned A class people is better than B class or B is better than C. It is just easier to pay the bills (most of the time) for A and B class than C class. My A class is filled with engineers & doctors. B class is teachers and mostly working professionals. I don't have too many I would classify as C but they are more blue collar/restaurant. People wise...they are all great. But their ability to pay rent in a time like this will vary significantly. A class can dip into savings, retirement, CC, friends and co workers and probably come up with the rent. C class might find that difficult.
I think at the end of the day, we are all just people and hopefully everyone can work things out in the end. It is real estate investing after all...not real estate money tree. This is a true test to see if you've built a good system that didn't' over leverage with healthy reserves. - San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
I think @Account Closed's solution has a lot of merit (no pun intended - I bet you get that a lot - sorry), but I wonder if it's jumping the gun by a month. People lose jobs in normal times. They don't get a month of free rent immediately. I think I would have told any tenants who asked for free rent that if times are still bad in May, that may be an option, let's wait and see. Anyone who lost their jobs can get unemployment with no waiting period and they don't have to prove their looking for work right now in CA. So, most of them should be able to get some money coming in.
I think it was a mistake for the government to immediately say people wouldn't have to pay rent or mortgages or whatever, so soon. It also just fueled the panic, in my opinion.
- Rental Property Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 192 posts · 205 votes6y
@Matthew McNeil
I watched Brandon Turners video and I believe there were some good points. However, I’m not going to ask my tenants to borrow money or put rent on a credit card.
As far as allowing tenants to have Borders, I would do it and follow the same criteria as I would with any other renter giving them the same rights and responsibilities as the lease states.
At this point, my main concern is rent and no vacancies; Tenant integrity and good character ( if my tenants have full rent, they should pay it ) I’ll work with my tenants if need be but I am not giving out free rent. If they can only pay 1/2 rent, I’ll take it because it’s OWED to me.
In addition, communication, integrity, and good character is huge on my part also. I’m not going to breach my contract with my tenants. If there is a maintenance issue, I will be there suited up in my full white protective jumpsuit, gloves, goggles, and respiratory mask. 😊. It may be a small leak but I’ll be dressed as though I’m there to remove lead 😂.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Yup, I might be jumping the gun, no question my move is debatable and time will tell.
I've made an update/retraction/apology to my initial post in this thread. The solution I have decided on for myself is a personal one and is not the sort that can be applied universally, or maybe better said it is not realistic to believe for a second it would ever happen voluntarily so, WTF am I doing posting it??? A swift slap to my face is in order.
My post was foolish and hypocritical, born from being overly idealistic and panic. I dunno...all I can say is that maybe being forced into being irrational breeds more irrational behavior. I'm normally fairly rational.
What is happening around us is not rational. I know we are "forbidden" from speaking politics or getting off the point of real estate in this forum, but nobody anywhere else is discussing it either. That's the part of this that freaks me out more than anything. It's an important part of the story, vital IMO, and it will have it's affect on real estate too.
So then the question becomes, the one we are all trying to answer, how does one respond rationally to an irrational world?
Be well.
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