The Property Management Fee that can actually make you MORE Money

The Property Management Fee that can actually make you MORE Money

Real Estate Professional · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 252 votes

Property Managers and their fees are an almost unavoidable part of building a real estate portfolio. But what if I told you that your property manager can charge you a fee that will actually make you MORE money in the long term?

One of the most common complaints I heard from my Real Estate Investor clients was that they couldn’t find a reliable property manager. Before I had started my own brokerage/property management company, clients would purchase a property with me and then shop around for a property manager. After working with these property managers, the complaints I heard were common: “fees are too high, the contractors they hire for renovation/repair are too expensive, they’re not responsive when I call/text, they don’t DO anything, they’ve NEVER BEEN to the property, etc.”

So in 2022, I got my full broker’s license in Florida and started my own property management company. Now most of the complaints were pretty easy to fix; contractors are too expensive? Shop around for quotes or draw from my already established network of reasonably priced quality contractors. Previous property manager slow to respond? I respond and answer my phone always. They’ve never been to the property? I make sure to inspect every unit as soon as I take over a property. This is all customer service 101 and frankly NONE of these items should even be in question when hiring a property manager.

But then I got to the fees, and this was an area where I needed to give more thought. A Google search of typical property management fees shows fees ranging from anywhere from 6% to 12% of gross rents plus a placement fee of anywhere from ½ month to 1 and ½ months rent for placing a new tenant. And it was this fee in particular that got me to thinking perhaps the landlord and the property manager’s interests aren’t exactly aligned. Let me give you an example:

Let’s say we have an apartment on a 12 month lease at $1,000 per month. Landlord Joe hires Property Manager Ed to manage the property. And for the sake of this argument let’s ignore all other expenses (taxes, utilities, lawn service, etc.) Property Manager Ed charges Landlord Joe 8% of gross rents as a property management fee, and he charges a ½ months rent for placement fees on a new lease. And let’s look at this in terms of an apartment available starting January 1st for a term of 1 year ending on December 31st 12 months later.

So let’s say Property Manager Ed finds a tenant and moves them in on day 1. Out of that first $1,000 rent payment:

Month 1:

Ed Receives: Placement fee: $500

Property Management Fee: $80

Total Fees: $580

Joe Receives: Balance: $420

Now let’s say over the next 11 months, everything stays stable, there are no other expenses. In that time frame, each party will receive the following:

Month 2 – 12:

Ed Receives: 11 Months Prop Mang fees $880

Joe Receives: Net Rent Balance: $10,120

So at the end of year 1 their totals are as follows:

Year 1 Totals:

Ed (Property Manager: $1,460

Joe (Landlord) $10,540

Ok so not terrible so far. Ed has brought in some income for managing the property, Joe has received his net rents, everything looks good. But now that the lease is up, Property Manager Ed and Landlord Joe’s interests start to diverge. And it’s all based on whether the tenant decides to RENEW.

There are many factors that affect whether a tenant will renew: Pricing/lease increases, current job/life situations, satisfaction with their rental, etc. Pricing we have control over through negotiating rent, however our pricing strategies will always be based around market conditions. Landlord’s obviously want the maximum return on investment so we want rents to be as high as they can be while maintaining low vacancy. The tenant’s job/life situation we have no control over. However there is a massive area that we can influence to help a tenant decide whether to renew, and that is TENANT SATISFACTION.

Are their maintenance requests addressed in a timely manner? Does management ensure their quiet enjoyment of the property? Does the trash get picked up on time? Heck, what is their relationship like with the property manager.

The way I view it, is the customer service portion property management is actually SALES in disguise. I am year round SELLING my tenants on the prospect of renewing. Making sure they have everything they need and addressing issues as soon as they come up. I’m establishing an ongoing relationship with them because I WANT them to renew. The reason I want them to renew is because keeping vacancy low is in my Landlord’s best interest. But is it in my best interest as a property manager? Let’s look again at the example of Property Manager Ed and Landlord Joe and see what happens at the renewal point.

Let’s assume a simple renewal at an increase of $100 per month, bringing gross rent to $1,100 per month.

Year 2 Lease at $1,100 per month

Ed Receives: 12 months Prop Mang fees: $1,056

Joe Receives: 12 Months Net Rents: $12,144

In this simple renewal, things are pretty straightforward. Joe makes nearly 13% more in year 2 between a combination of higher rent and not having to pay a placement fee. However, Ed makes 28% LESS in year 2 because he didn’t have a placement fee. That is not an insignificant amount, Ed is missing out on almost a third of his income because he RETAINED a tenant. This is a clear conflict of interest financially when a property manager stands to lose a third of their income when acting in the best interest of the landlord.

Now let’s look at what happens if the tenant decides not to renew and the unit is going to be vacant for some time. Maybe Ed is not that great of a property manager and doesn’t answer his phone when a service request comes in. Maybe he’s rude and gruff with the tenants. Maybe he’s more interested in larger properties that he manages for other clients. Either way, Ed has done a poor job and is at least partially responsible for the tenant moving out. Let’s assume a 45 day vacancy period before Ed finds a new tenant.

Year 2 Lease at $1,100 per month

Vacancy: 45 Days

Month 1: No Income, unit is vacant

Month 2: 15 days pro rated – Gross Rent = $550 collected

Ed Receives:

Placement Fee: $550

Property Mang Fee: ($44) Insufficient balance will need to be collected the following month

Joe Receives : Net Rent Balance: $0

Month 3

Ed Receives:

Balance of Prop Man Fees Due: $44

Prop Man Fees: $88

Joe Receives:

Net Rent Balance: $968

Month 4 – 12

Ed Receives:

Prop Mang Fees: $792

Joe Receives:

Net Rent Balance: $9,108

Year 2 Totals:

Ed Receives: $1,474

Joe Receives: $10,076

Look at the difference in the numbers based on these two scenarios:

With Renewal:

Ed Makes: $1,056

Joe Makes: $12,144

Without Renewal:

Ed Makes: $1,474

Joe Makes: $10,076

Do you see the problem here? The property manager makes 40% MORE per year if a tenant moves out. And the landlord makes nearly 20% LESS over that same time period due to the vacancy expense. The property manager is actually INCENTIVISED to get tenants to move out which causes the landlord to lose money.

So what is the solution to this? As crazy as it may sound, a property manager charging an additional fee might actually benefit both them AND the landlord and align their financial interests. We call this a “renewal fee”. Essentially it’s a financial incentive for the property manager to retain the tenant. Let’s look at the same renewal example again except in this case the property manager charges 20% of one months rent as a fee for renewing a lease.

Year 2: Lease Renewal at $1,100 per month

Month 1:

Ed Receives:

Renewal Fee: $220

Property Management Fee: $88

Joe Receives:

Net Rent balance: $792

Month 2 – 12

Ed Receives:

Property Management Fee: $968

Joe Receives:

Net Rent Balances: $11,132

Total Year 2 Income:

Ed: $1,276

Joe: 11,924

Now in this situation, Ed has made $200 less than he would have made if he had to place a new tenant, BUT he also didn’t have to do the work of placing a new tenant, he simply had to negotiate and draw up a lease renewal. Joe on the other hand, made $1,800+ more than he would have if they had to place a new tenant. And the fee that incentivized Ed only cost him $220, which is only 1.6% of the annual gross income from the apartment. This should be a very MINOR expense for a landlord. But for Property Manager Ed, $220 is a nearly 20% boost to his income and is a significant motivator. If you knew you could get a 20% bonus on your salary every year, how hard would you work for it?

Under many property management agreements, the property manager can actually makes MORE money year over year by placing new tenants, even if it isn’t in the best interest of the landlord. Even losing 45 days worth of property management fees, they still make more that year because they placed a new tenant.

By utilizing a renewal fee, the interests of a landlord and a property manager in line. The property manager makes slightly less money renewing a lease than if they placed a new tenant, however a lease renewal is far less labor intensive than placing a new tenant. There’s no showings, no background/credit checks. It’s simply a negotiation on price and then drawing up a new lease.

Vacancies and new tenants are an unavoidable part of property management, but every landlord should be asking themselves whether their property management contract has them setup to minimize vacancy expense. The best way to do it, is to incentivize your property manager to retain tenants.

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Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2022 · 117 posts · 110 votes
3y

Turnovers are *A LOT* of work. Leasing fee or no leasing fee, I have never known a PM who preferred a turnover to a lease renewal. Speaking from my experience, the PM and owner have highly aligned interests. 

That being said, I agree that a lease renewal fee is appropriate.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    You forget. The PM does maybe 1000% more work finding a new tenant? They make the higher renewal income by emailing a form for the tenant to sign. They make the new tenant fee by spending hours advertising, interviewing, backgrounding, showing, collecting applications, plus managing cleaners and repairs. Any PM that thinks that extra $400 is money well made will be out of business before his competition is able to steal the client. 

    Ps. In Vegas there’s a flat $300 new tenant fee, nobody should be paying 1/2 month ($1000+). And the renewal fee is $150 (which seems high for sending an email but that’s what it is.) so the PM makes an extra $150 except they lost out on 8% of rent for the 2 weeks vacancy @ $2,000/mo so that’s $80. If it takes a month to make ready and refill they actually lose $10 over a renewal. 

    Pps. This is another advantage to 2-3 year leases when dealing with SFR. 1/2 to 1/3rd placement or renewal fees. Or if you don't like that idea switch to MTM and avoid them both. I've done both. While I prefer the planning that can be done with 2-3 year leases, MTM tenants seem to forget they can move and stay even longer with no lease renewals to remind them another year has come and gone.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y

    Well....... That was something.... Still not sure what, but it was something. 

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    3y

    @Stephen Dispensa admire your posting of all this, but you're just, "reinventing the wheel". Been there done what you propose and most owners are too short-sighted to care about this.

    Many will agree upfront, but wait until you try to charge that renewal fee and you have to deal with their complaints.

    @Bill B. so you're stating that Realtors in Las Vegas will accept 50% of the $300 tenant fee when rentals are posted on the MLS? Or are you referring to PMC's that don't post their rentals on the MLS?

  • Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2022 · 117 posts · 110 votes
    3y

    Turnovers are *A LOT* of work. Leasing fee or no leasing fee, I have never known a PM who preferred a turnover to a lease renewal. Speaking from my experience, the PM and owner have highly aligned interests. 

    That being said, I agree that a lease renewal fee is appropriate.

  • Real Estate Professional · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 252 votes
    3y


     @Drew Sygit - I've actually been pricing this way for all my customers and it's been working out well so far. I had a tenant two months ago who the moment I took over as property manager informed me that she would not be renewing her lease. She said property management had changed too many times, and she had nothing but bad luck and wasn't willing to give me the benefit of a doubt. Well two months later I have single handedly repaired that relationship and she is renewing.

    @Bill B. - Is that a city law regarding what can be charged or just industry standard?

  • Real Estate Professional · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 252 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Brandon Vanderford:

    Turnovers are *A LOT* of work. Leasing fee or no leasing fee, I have never known a PM who preferred a turnover to a lease renewal. Speaking from my experience, the PM and owner have highly aligned interests. 

    That being said, I agree that a lease renewal fee is appropriate.


     The point of my post wasn't to suggest that there wasn't significant work involved in a turnover. But far more importantly is to realize the financial disparities between a no fee renewal and a turnover. It's literally 1/3rd of the property manager's revenue to do a turnover in this situation and it FAR outstrips any losses the PM has from vacancy expense. However, at the same time it costs the landlord a HUGE amount.

  • Real Estate Professional · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 252 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bill B.:

    You forget. The PM does maybe 1000% more work finding a new tenant? They make the higher renewal income by emailing a form for the tenant to sign. They make the new tenant fee by spending hours advertising, interviewing, backgrounding, showing, collecting applications, plus managing cleaners and repairs. Any PM that thinks that extra $400 is money well made will be out of business before his competition is able to steal the client. 

    Ps. In Vegas there’s a flat $300 new tenant fee, nobody should be paying 1/2 month ($1000+). And the renewal fee is $150 (which seems high for sending an email but that’s what it is.) so the PM makes an extra $150 except they lost out on 8% of rent for the 2 weeks vacancy @ $2,000/mo so that’s $80. If it takes a month to make ready and refill they actually lose $10 over a renewal. 

    Pps. This is another advantage to 2-3 year leases when dealing with SFR. 1/2 to 1/3rd placement or renewal fees. Or if you don't like that idea switch to MTM and avoid them both. I've done both. While I prefer the planning that can be done with 2-3 year leases, MTM tenants seem to forget they can move and stay even longer with no lease renewals to remind them another year has come and gone.

    - When tenant placement is systematized it is a bit less arduous than you describe, but yes there is significant work involved in a turnover. 

    - A renewal goes beyond "sending an email" and as I have stated in my original post, involves all the actions taken year round in terms of customer service. 

    - As a tenant I'd GLADLY take a 2-3 year lease in my market as rents continue to appreciate. My tenants would kiss me on the mouth if they could have locked in their leases 2 - 3 years ago. A landlord locking in 2-3 year leases would have missed out on nearly 100% rental appreciation in my market in the last 2 to 3 years. This is bad business and I would NEVER recommend it to any of my property owner clients.

  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    @Drew Sygit the realtor gets 100% of the $300

    @Stephen Dispensa you obviously build in yearly increases in your longer leases. I understand you can cherry pick to make your case but but once in a lifetime rent increases don’t make your case. Do you really expect 100% rent increases in 2 years any time during the rest of your life? You’re more likely during the next 2 years to lock in 5-10% increases while the market experience 3-5% increases. And don’t forget, avoiding 1 months vacancy and turnover because of the longer lease is worth at least 8%. 

    I guess this could all be solved by hiring an ethical PM that puts their customer’s success ahead of making or losing $80. It sucks if you’re surrounded by PM’s willing to screw you over such a small dollar amount. I assume they are also hiring their brother the plumber and sister the electrician and padding their pairs as well. That’s too bad. 

    Maybe try my suggestion for MTM to avoid the fees and the temptations, as well as allowing rent adjustments every 60 days. That way you don’t lose out on 10 months of rent doubling like you obviously did with your yearly leases. The tenants really do tend to stay for years and years at MTM. 

  • Real Estate Professional · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 252 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bill B.:

    @Drew Sygit the realtor gets 100% of the $300

    @Stephen Dispensa you obviously build in yearly increases in your longer leases. I understand you can cherry pick to make your case but but once in a lifetime rent increases don’t make your case. Do you really expect 100% rent increases in 2 years any time during the rest of your life? You’re more likely during the next 2 years to lock in 5-10% increases while the market experience 3-5% increases. And don’t forget, avoiding 1 months vacancy and turnover because of the longer lease is worth at least 8%. 

    I guess this could all be solved by hiring an ethical PM that puts their customer’s success ahead of making or losing $80. It sucks if you’re surrounded by PM’s willing to screw you over such a small dollar amount. I assume they are also hiring their brother the plumber and sister the electrician and padding their pairs as well. That’s too bad. 

    Maybe try my suggestion for MTM to avoid the fees and the temptations, as well as allowing rent adjustments every 60 days. That way you don’t lose out on 10 months of rent doubling like you obviously did with your yearly leases. The tenants really do tend to stay for years and years at MTM. 


     Generally speaking the type of tenants who go for MTM in my market tend to be in C class properties and below. I only manage A and B class properties unless I'm working on a value add C class that I intend to bring up to A or B. In that example I would allow for a MTM as we prepare to turn units but that's really the only situation. 

    Regarding the ethics of property managers, I couldn't agree more and it is a MASSIVE problem. Before I started PM'ing myself I saw other PM's give my client outrageous estimates that they were clearly taking kickbacks on. But the point of my original post was not to suggest a renewal fee IN PLACE of ethics. My point was to show the financial reality of these situations and the disparity in income for a PM vs a Landlord. But frankly, I don't think the solution is to build a system where a PM can potentially benefit by acting against the interests of a Landlord. I think my solution, which is a system in which there is a financial incentive for all parties to cooperate is the best answer. 

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    3y

    @Bill B. thanks for sharing:)

    We don't know a Metro Detroit agent that would show tenants multiple properties over several days for just $300. WISH we could get them to work for that little!

  • Property Manager · DE · Member since 2023 · 248 posts · 133 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Brandon Vanderford:

    Turnovers are *A LOT* of work. Leasing fee or no leasing fee, I have never known a PM who preferred a turnover to a lease renewal. Speaking from my experience, the PM and owner have highly aligned interests. 

    That being said, I agree that a lease renewal fee is appropriate.


     Yes, this.

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    3y

    The only thing I found of interest in the original post is that he charges PM fee when the unit is not rented.  This is not typical in my market.  Is it typical in other markets of is it just the OP?  Note it is the PM's responsibility to minimize vacancy and place a qualified tenant as quickly as possible.

    I have seen PMs charge for lease renewals.  If the fee is low enough, it will generate few complaints.  I would hope charging management fees for an unrented unit would generate more complaints but maybe it is common in some markets.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    3y

    The best structure for management fees is based on occupancy rate, where manager compensation increases as occupancy rate/revenue increases.  Figure out what the average occupancy is for the area/property and the manager and owner spilt revenue in some form above that figure (manager bonus for maintaining high occupancy).  Win/win.

  • Corby GoadeBusiness Member
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    Honestly, TLDR, BUT- if you are working with a decent PM, there's nothing new under the sun, no "new" trick or secret to finding and keeping excellent tenants- it's a two step process that works 100% of the time:

    1. Clear and thorough screening using the HUD best practices for your process

    2. Allowing your PM to take reasonable care of your property and tenant. 

    That's it. 

    I could go in to much more detail, but there are so many "investors" who refuse to allow their PM to properly maintain their property, which creates defered maintence and then they blame the PM when the tenants have had enough or there's suddenly a capex emergency. 

    You and your PM and tenants are all business partners with the same goals. You need to approach every situation with that outlook or you've already lost the plot. 

    Ulitmate accountibility for your property and decisions is what will get you there. 

  • Real Estate Professional · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 252 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Dan H.:

    The only thing I found of interest in the original post is that he charges PM fee when the unit is not rented.  This is not typical in my market.  Is it typical in other markets of is it just the OP?  Note it is the PM's responsibility to minimize vacancy and place a qualified tenant as quickly as possible.

    I have seen PMs charge for lease renewals.  If the fee is low enough, it will generate few complaints.  I would hope charging management fees for an unrented unit would generate more complaints but maybe it is common in some markets.


     There's no PM fee when the unit is not rented. Re-read original post example.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    WOW A LOT of writing making it more complicated, PM is simple, % of the gross rent, 1 month leasing fee, small dollar amount for renewal, X dollars kept in reserve for emergency repairs. Take care of repairs at a fair price. Thants it, why are you trying to make is so much more complicated

    Good luck

    BTW I PM 600 doors and do about 180k a month in renovations/ repairs, 

  • Clint BolingPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Stephen Dispensa:

    Property Managers and their fees are an almost unavoidable part of building a real estate portfolio. But what if I told you that your property manager can charge you a fee that will actually make you MORE money in the long term?

    One of the most common complaints I heard from my Real Estate Investor clients was that they couldn’t find a reliable property manager. Before I had started my own brokerage/property management company, clients would purchase a property with me and then shop around for a property manager. After working with these property managers, the complaints I heard were common: “fees are too high, the contractors they hire for renovation/repair are too expensive, they’re not responsive when I call/text, they don’t DO anything, they’ve NEVER BEEN to the property, etc.”

    So in 2022, I got my full broker’s license in Florida and started my own property management company. Now most of the complaints were pretty easy to fix; contractors are too expensive? Shop around for quotes or draw from my already established network of reasonably priced quality contractors. Previous property manager slow to respond? I respond and answer my phone always. They’ve never been to the property? I make sure to inspect every unit as soon as I take over a property. This is all customer service 101 and frankly NONE of these items should even be in question when hiring a property manager.

    But then I got to the fees, and this was an area where I needed to give more thought. A Google search of typical property management fees shows fees ranging from anywhere from 6% to 12% of gross rents plus a placement fee of anywhere from ½ month to 1 and ½ months rent for placing a new tenant. And it was this fee in particular that got me to thinking perhaps the landlord and the property manager’s interests aren’t exactly aligned. Let me give you an example:

    Let’s say we have an apartment on a 12 month lease at $1,000 per month. Landlord Joe hires Property Manager Ed to manage the property. And for the sake of this argument let’s ignore all other expenses (taxes, utilities, lawn service, etc.) Property Manager Ed charges Landlord Joe 8% of gross rents as a property management fee, and he charges a ½ months rent for placement fees on a new lease. And let’s look at this in terms of an apartment available starting January 1st for a term of 1 year ending on December 31st 12 months later.

    So let’s say Property Manager Ed finds a tenant and moves them in on day 1. Out of that first $1,000 rent payment:

    Month 1:

    Ed Receives: Placement fee: $500

    Property Management Fee: $80

    Total Fees: $580

    Joe Receives: Balance: $420

    Now let’s say over the next 11 months, everything stays stable, there are no other expenses. In that time frame, each party will receive the following:

    Month 2 – 12:

    Ed Receives: 11 Months Prop Mang fees $880

    Joe Receives: Net Rent Balance: $10,120

    So at the end of year 1 their totals are as follows:

    Year 1 Totals:

    Ed (Property Manager: $1,460

    Joe (Landlord) $10,540

    Ok so not terrible so far. Ed has brought in some income for managing the property, Joe has received his net rents, everything looks good. But now that the lease is up, Property Manager Ed and Landlord Joe’s interests start to diverge. And it’s all based on whether the tenant decides to RENEW.

    There are many factors that affect whether a tenant will renew: Pricing/lease increases, current job/life situations, satisfaction with their rental, etc. Pricing we have control over through negotiating rent, however our pricing strategies will always be based around market conditions. Landlord’s obviously want the maximum return on investment so we want rents to be as high as they can be while maintaining low vacancy. The tenant’s job/life situation we have no control over. However there is a massive area that we can influence to help a tenant decide whether to renew, and that is TENANT SATISFACTION.

    Are their maintenance requests addressed in a timely manner? Does management ensure their quiet enjoyment of the property? Does the trash get picked up on time? Heck, what is their relationship like with the property manager.

    The way I view it, is the customer service portion property management is actually SALES in disguise. I am year round SELLING my tenants on the prospect of renewing. Making sure they have everything they need and addressing issues as soon as they come up. I’m establishing an ongoing relationship with them because I WANT them to renew. The reason I want them to renew is because keeping vacancy low is in my Landlord’s best interest. But is it in my best interest as a property manager? Let’s look again at the example of Property Manager Ed and Landlord Joe and see what happens at the renewal point.

    Let’s assume a simple renewal at an increase of $100 per month, bringing gross rent to $1,100 per month.

    Year 2 Lease at $1,100 per month

    Ed Receives: 12 months Prop Mang fees: $1,056

    Joe Receives: 12 Months Net Rents: $12,144

    In this simple renewal, things are pretty straightforward. Joe makes nearly 13% more in year 2 between a combination of higher rent and not having to pay a placement fee. However, Ed makes 28% LESS in year 2 because he didn’t have a placement fee. That is not an insignificant amount, Ed is missing out on almost a third of his income because he RETAINED a tenant. This is a clear conflict of interest financially when a property manager stands to lose a third of their income when acting in the best interest of the landlord.

    Now let’s look at what happens if the tenant decides not to renew and the unit is going to be vacant for some time. Maybe Ed is not that great of a property manager and doesn’t answer his phone when a service request comes in. Maybe he’s rude and gruff with the tenants. Maybe he’s more interested in larger properties that he manages for other clients. Either way, Ed has done a poor job and is at least partially responsible for the tenant moving out. Let’s assume a 45 day vacancy period before Ed finds a new tenant.

    Year 2 Lease at $1,100 per month

    Vacancy: 45 Days

    Month 1: No Income, unit is vacant

    Month 2: 15 days pro rated – Gross Rent = $550 collected

    Ed Receives:

    Placement Fee: $550

    Property Mang Fee: ($44) Insufficient balance will need to be collected the following month

    Joe Receives : Net Rent Balance: $0

    Month 3

    Ed Receives:

    Balance of Prop Man Fees Due: $44

    Prop Man Fees: $88

    Joe Receives:

    Net Rent Balance: $968

    Month 4 – 12

    Ed Receives:

    Prop Mang Fees: $792

    Joe Receives:

    Net Rent Balance: $9,108

    Year 2 Totals:

    Ed Receives: $1,474

    Joe Receives: $10,076

    Look at the difference in the numbers based on these two scenarios:

    With Renewal:

    Ed Makes: $1,056

    Joe Makes: $12,144

    Without Renewal:

    Ed Makes: $1,474

    Joe Makes: $10,076

    Do you see the problem here? The property manager makes 40% MORE per year if a tenant moves out. And the landlord makes nearly 20% LESS over that same time period due to the vacancy expense. The property manager is actually INCENTIVISED to get tenants to move out which causes the landlord to lose money.

    So what is the solution to this? As crazy as it may sound, a property manager charging an additional fee might actually benefit both them AND the landlord and align their financial interests. We call this a “renewal fee”. Essentially it’s a financial incentive for the property manager to retain the tenant. Let’s look at the same renewal example again except in this case the property manager charges 20% of one months rent as a fee for renewing a lease.

    Year 2: Lease Renewal at $1,100 per month

    Month 1:

    Ed Receives:

    Renewal Fee: $220

    Property Management Fee: $88

    Joe Receives:

    Net Rent balance: $792

    Month 2 – 12

    Ed Receives:

    Property Management Fee: $968

    Joe Receives:

    Net Rent Balances: $11,132

    Total Year 2 Income:

    Ed: $1,276

    Joe: 11,924

    Now in this situation, Ed has made $200 less than he would have made if he had to place a new tenant, BUT he also didn’t have to do the work of placing a new tenant, he simply had to negotiate and draw up a lease renewal. Joe on the other hand, made $1,800+ more than he would have if they had to place a new tenant. And the fee that incentivized Ed only cost him $220, which is only 1.6% of the annual gross income from the apartment. This should be a very MINOR expense for a landlord. But for Property Manager Ed, $220 is a nearly 20% boost to his income and is a significant motivator. If you knew you could get a 20% bonus on your salary every year, how hard would you work for it?

    Under many property management agreements, the property manager can actually makes MORE money year over year by placing new tenants, even if it isn’t in the best interest of the landlord. Even losing 45 days worth of property management fees, they still make more that year because they placed a new tenant.

    By utilizing a renewal fee, the interests of a landlord and a property manager in line. The property manager makes slightly less money renewing a lease than if they placed a new tenant, however a lease renewal is far less labor intensive than placing a new tenant. There’s no showings, no background/credit checks. It’s simply a negotiation on price and then drawing up a new lease.

    Vacancies and new tenants are an unavoidable part of property management, but every landlord should be asking themselves whether their property management contract has them setup to minimize vacancy expense. The best way to do it, is to incentivize your property manager to retain tenants.


     Property manager Ed is going out of business if he scales past 75 units.  At those rates he cannot afford to hire and employees to help him.  

    His half month leasing fee: he will lose money trying to rent and screen all of the applicants.   

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    Really not understanding why you chose to post a " book" on this, do not understand what the point it. 

  • Property Manager · South Florida · Member since 2023 · 22 posts · 16 votes
    3y

    I have a much simpler solution. We charge a % of the net income (collected rent - maintenance) with NO leasing commissions or renewal fees. That means our interests are 100% aligned with the owner - for leasing, renewals and maintenance

  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Aloha,

    I liked what @Corby Goade had to say, but I will distill this a little further:

    First of all, in nearly 30 years and two States, I have never worked for a company that charged a renewal fee OR an initial "lease up" fee. All have been percentage of collected rents and other income (laundry, parking primarily, but spelled out in the PM Agreement).

    The only lease up fee I have ever charged is for Tenant Placement only. We advertise for; show; perform complete background checks; review all Rental documents with the prospective Tenants and have them sign; perform move in inspection and document with photos and form signed by Tenants; and finally introduce and hand over Tenant to the property Owner. I have always charged 50% of the monthly rent amount, with a minimum amount agreed to for lower end units. I also typically will meet with Owner and Tenants at move out to perform a final inspection (knowing that I will again be advertising the unit as soon as any repairs are completed).

    I do not view being PM as a Customer Service position. This ain't Burger King. You do not get things Your Way. Tenants agree to and sign a contract. So do our Client Owners. All parties have pretty clear responsibilities, between the contracts and LL/Tenant laws. As a licensee, and Realtor, I also have a code of ethics to adhere to; and I am required to follow laws in order to keep my license. I treat both Tenants and Owners fairly, but firmly and consistently. I have no problem telling either, NO. I also have no problem telling an Owner his unit is crap and needs to be updated, and with only slightly more tact. Maintenance and repairs happen promptly and routinely.

    My Tenant turnover average is well over 4 years, especially since covid. I still have tenants that I placed 15 years ago. When a Tenant is close to their rental anniversary, I always perform a walk through inspection, documenting with photos that I then share with the Owner, along with a brief overview of current market and my recommendations as to increase/repairs or to just let the sleeping dog lie. If an Owner wants to ignore my recommendations and call the shots, I have no problem as long as they understand who is responsible for the outcome. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    I suppose I could consider paying a PM $3K to save me from maybe 10 hours of generally enjoyable work each month. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bill B.:

    @Drew Sygit the realtor gets 100% of the $300

    @Stephen Dispensa you obviously build in yearly increases in your longer leases. I understand you can cherry pick to make your case but but once in a lifetime rent increases don’t make your case. Do you really expect 100% rent increases in 2 years any time during the rest of your life? You’re more likely during the next 2 years to lock in 5-10% increases while the market experience 3-5% increases. And don’t forget, avoiding 1 months vacancy and turnover because of the longer lease is worth at least 8%. 

    I guess this could all be solved by hiring an ethical PM that puts their customer’s success ahead of making or losing $80. It sucks if you’re surrounded by PM’s willing to screw you over such a small dollar amount. I assume they are also hiring their brother the plumber and sister the electrician and padding their pairs as well. That’s too bad. 

    Maybe try my suggestion for MTM to avoid the fees and the temptations, as well as allowing rent adjustments every 60 days. That way you don’t lose out on 10 months of rent doubling like you obviously did with your yearly leases. The tenants really do tend to stay for years and years at MTM. 


    Unit rent for $2,250. 

    PM fee of, let's say flat rate $110 mnth. 

    Which should be a landlord focus to reduce cost, tenancy length OR that "nasty" PM fee? 

    1 month vacancy cost = $2,250.    1 YEAR of PM = $1,320.    Kind of seems a no-brainer to me. 

    By the #'s, 1yr tenancy new tenants, on average, renew on average ~35% of time.    2yr tenancy to start, renew on average at ~55%.     3yr tenancy to start renew on average at ~74%.   It's psychology, longer term tenants get "embedded" and moving becomes more "painful" a proposition. 

    If cash-flow stability is the goal, the #'s are clear, 3yr tenancy has more stability, longevity, less vacancy. And vacancy is the #1 "expense" for foreseen's. 

  • Peter TverdovBusiness Member
    Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    OP will learn fast and his method will change.

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