Seller lied about mold in the walls :-(

St. Petersburg, Florida
First-Time Home Buyer
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Seller lied about mold in the walls :-(

Archer Stone
Member since 2022 · 7 posts · 0 votes

We bought a condo and moved in 5 days ago. Me, my wife, and 1yr old daughter

Inspector had found a small amount of mold under the sink in the inspection. Less than two square feet. Sent it to a lab and it tested as “penicillium,” not dangerous.

The seller said “it’s just on the surface” and wiped it away with bleach.

I insisted several times that we should cut into the walls to check, but the sellers kept saying it just was a tiny bit of mold so unnecessary. I checked with the mold lab and they said “the seller is probably right, its just a small amount and it’s not the dangerous kind, it’s not worth the trouble.”

The broker (supposed to be loyal to both sides and truthful and honest) sent us an email saying basically “it’s not a problem, we are not cutting the wall.”

Well, we negotiated a “buyers credit” for $1500, closed the deal and moved in last week. 

Today I met the neighbor who shares that bathroom wall with us. Apparently she’s been staying in a hotel for weeks because it’s not livable in her apartment because of health problems from black mold!! She said it was too expensive for her to fix, so they’re just gonna clean the bare minimum and it’s gonna keep coming back

Apparently the backstory is: a few years ago an upstairs neighbor (now long gone) had a fight with the HOA, so they turned on the taps and stuffed tshirts in the sinks to flood the apartment and caused water & mold damage in the downstairs apartments.

What the actual F

We have a baby in here and we spent 90% of our savings to buy this condo, all cash. We have very little savings at this point

What would you do? Can we sue the seller or broker to cover costs of fixing it? I have emails from the broker with strong implications saying that the sellers said this is not a problem and it’s just a surface thing and it’s not in the walls.

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Bob Okenwa
Real Estate Agent/Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y

@Archer Stone

You had an inspector verify that mold was present and still proceeded with the transaction. You had the opportunity to back out of the deal but chose to move forward. At any point in the transaction did you speak with the neighbors or HOA about known issues? How can you prove the agent or seller knew about the mold that was not visible and behind walls?

It sounds like you used the listing agent as your agent as well. The listing agent will always have priority to the seller and not the buyer, even if they say otherwise. You should have retained your own agent IMO.

I would not have let a random buyer cut into my walls either. It's not your house at that point so you either back out of the deal or proceed knowing that there may be an issue down the line.

 I'm not trying to be the bad guy, but I'd check with a local real estate attorney and talk to the brokerage about your options. 

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  • Bob Okenwa
    Real Estate Agent/Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Archer Stone

    You had an inspector verify that mold was present and still proceeded with the transaction. You had the opportunity to back out of the deal but chose to move forward. At any point in the transaction did you speak with the neighbors or HOA about known issues? How can you prove the agent or seller knew about the mold that was not visible and behind walls?

    It sounds like you used the listing agent as your agent as well. The listing agent will always have priority to the seller and not the buyer, even if they say otherwise. You should have retained your own agent IMO.

    I would not have let a random buyer cut into my walls either. It's not your house at that point so you either back out of the deal or proceed knowing that there may be an issue down the line.

     I'm not trying to be the bad guy, but I'd check with a local real estate attorney and talk to the brokerage about your options. 

    12Reply
  • Lee Bell
    Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    4y

    The broker (supposed to be loyal to both sides and truthful and honest)

    Some places this is legal, but I don't think it should be. How can they represent both sides interests? They can't!

    It is a conflict of interest. Lawyer up.

    1Reply
  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    This could have happened to a lot of buyers, including many of us.  I don't have experience in the legalities but would definitely contact an attorney.  Get feedback and quotes from remediation companies and, after speaking with your attorney, feedback from your insurance company (which is where this may end up).  You may end up with a new interior.

    0Reply
  • Michael Plante
    Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bob Okenwa:

    @Archer Stone

    You had an inspector verify that mold was present and still proceeded with the transaction. You had the opportunity to back out of the deal but chose to move forward. At any point in the transaction did you speak with the neighbors or HOA about known issues? How can you prove the agent or seller knew about the mold that was not visible and behind walls?

    It sounds like you used the listing agent as your agent as well. The listing agent will always have priority to the seller and not the buyer, even if they say otherwise. You should have retained your own agent IMO.

    I would not have let a random buyer cut into my walls either. It's not your house at that point so you either back out of the deal or proceed knowing that there may be an issue down the line.

     I'm not trying to be the bad guy, but I'd check with a local real estate attorney and talk to the brokerage about your options. 


     Perfect reply

    0Reply
  • Rod HanksBusiness Member
    Insurance Agent · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 743 posts · 462 votes
    4y

    You accepted the seller credit for the mold, the inspector said mold, you had it tested and still decided to proceed. If you didn’t know and seller didn’t disclose you may have a case, but……you knew and took money knowing it was there. Doesn’t seem like you have a chance in court but who knows. I’m sure some attorney would take your money and give it go.

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    10Reply
  • Nick C.
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    Having mold in the condo isn't enough. You'd have to prove the seller knew about it and purposefully covered it up to get anywhere in court. If the seller didn't cut into the wall, it's unlikely he knew about it. And more unlikely you can prove he did. Lawsuits sound great in theory, but in practice they are expensive, time consuming, stressful, and rarely end well for anyone. 

    5Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    If the seller never opened up the wall, then he technically didn’t know there was mold other than what your inspector found.  You knew it was there, had it tested, and accepted $1500. Sorry to say this one’s on you in my opinion. 

    5Reply
  • Nick C.
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    One note about mold remediation companies - they will 100% find mold in every dwelling in Florida. It's a guarantee, especially if they're the ones doing the remediating.

    7Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:

    This could have happened to a lot of buyers, including many of us.  I don't have experience in the legalities but would definitely contact an attorney.  Get feedback and quotes from remediation companies and, after speaking with your attorney, feedback from your insurance company (which is where this may end up).  You may end up with a new interior.


    also if this is a true condo then you only own the airspace not the walls.. so this would be an HOA issue they need to pay to fix it.. so if you think of your insurance you only have contents and liablity you are not carrying dwelling insurance the HOA is..  Just sayin and something to bring up if you do consult a RE attorney.  I maybe wrong and maybe your not in a true condo ..
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  • Austin F.
    Investor · MI · Member since 2015 · 227 posts · 478 votes
    4y
    Mold is everywhere.

    Don't panic, do an air quality test, do research about how most mold isn't an issue.
    11Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y

    Also if you have been a landlord you will see how many tenants live in virtual petri dish's of mold and hoarders.  as stated its every where bleach and elbow great gets ride of it.

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    5Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    Mold is maybe horrible and maybe potentially dangerous. As a Contractor who dealt with this many times, mold is usually waaay over-blown. And waaay over-exaggerated by those in the industry. Same as Asbestos. Usually you can just ignore them both, but beware of running afoul of the bureaucrats because they can fine you out the butt.

    As has been said though, this seems like the responsibility of the Condo HOA. Put some heat on them and see what happens. People freak out about Mold because it has the big aura around it nowadays......

    5Reply
  • Archer Stone
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Having mold in the condo isn't enough. You'd have to prove the seller knew about it and purposefully covered it up to get anywhere in court. If the seller didn't cut into the wall, it's unlikely he knew about it. And more unlikely you can prove he did. Lawsuits sound great in theory, but in practice they are expensive, time consuming, stressful, and rarely end well for anyone. 


     The seller’s agent literally said, in writing: “it’s just on the surface it’s not a problem.” When I said on the phone “it’s probably on the wall or in the neighbors apartment” they said “no, it’s not, it was just on the surface and it’s gone now.”

    5 days after moving in we find out that the neighbors apt is full of mold. The neighbor said our seller knew about it and what the seller told us was a “bald faced lie.”

    That’s a direct quote from the neighbor.

    The seller lied, in writing. Multiple times. We could probably get neighbors to back that up.

    0Reply
  • Adam Martin
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    Having mold in the condo isn't enough. You'd have to prove the seller knew about it and purposefully covered it up to get anywhere in court. If the seller didn't cut into the wall, it's unlikely he knew about it. And more unlikely you can prove he did. Lawsuits sound great in theory, but in practice they are expensive, time consuming, stressful, and rarely end well for anyone. 


    I disagree with this last sentence that lawsuits rarely end well for anyone, the attorneys do quite well and are truly the winners in many suits. Outside that I agree with you that it will be hard to prove that they knew. Others have mentioned this may be the responsibility of the HOA so I feel that is your best bet however I don't have any experience there.

    4Reply
  • Luka Milicevic
    Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Archer Stone

    Check your state law to see if your state is a "caveat emptor" state. That means "buyer beware" 

    If it is a buyer beware state then I think you have no chance of collecting anything in terms of damages. 

    If it's not, then I believe you do have some recourse. In my state of TN, seller's are required to disclose adverse material defects. Even if you did an inspection, if a seller knows of a material defect they are required to disclose it. The broker/agent is required to disclose anything they know of as well.

    In this case, the broker/agent sounds like represented the seller. They have no loyalty or fiduciary duty to you then. If they represented the seller that is their client, not you. 

    This is a tricky situation since you did an inspection, tested the mold and it came back as not dangerous. 

    If I were you, I'd look immediately into mold remediation services and get the problem solved asap. 

    1Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Archer Stone personal opinion with no legal validity? You are in a tough spot.

    One thing hasn’t been addressed, often the hoa is required to keep minutes, records etc. if a dispute got to this point there should be some record. We’re these documents requested and not disclosed?

    I wouldn’t take the next door “mold lady” at her word either. Mold? Yes toxic dangerous mold? I wouldn’t believe it unless I saw some proof. It’s often claimed and often wrong/false

    0Reply
  • Victor Yum
    Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    You can only lawyer up if you have money, at least close to $10,000 if it went to trial or more.  It's no guarantee that you will win, are you willing to spend that kind of money for a may be?

    Also, please double check the document you signed for the $1,500 "Mold" credit, that might include language that you relieve the seller for any liability for the mold issue.

    If it is something inside the wall and the HOA knows about it, that's should be their responsibility.

    Mold and mold mediation is overblown to me, now a day most Home insurance policy has a $5000 to $10,000 limit on mold issue. 

    I am sorry to hear that happen to you and your family.  Hope it will turn out alright.

    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    Easier and cheaper to just get this fixed and move forward....

    0Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Your inspection show Penicillin mold vs. black mold.

    Your neighbor has black mold--not you.

    If your neighbor had a million dollars sitting on their kitchen table does that mean it's yours too.

    If you are uncomfortable living there, I'd say sell and find another place to live.

    Ask to see the neighbors mold report for black mold--they may be lying to you (and to themselves) --a lot of people say a lot of things that are not true.

    Good Luck!

    1Reply
  • Matt Corso
    Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 14 votes
    4y

    Buyer Beware!

    0Reply
  • John Bartlett
    Member since 2021 · 62 posts · 46 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff as bring one that has had mold in their house. I can tell you from personal experience, it does not take a lot to wreck you. I only had it in my AC, after I got it cleaned up, it still took me over 10 years to get 95% better health wise. What is really bad is when you have two different types living in a house and they start going to war on each other.

    2Reply
  • John Bartlett
    Member since 2021 · 62 posts · 46 votes
    4y

    @Scott Mac there is no such thing as "black mold", mold is mold. Different types affect people differently. If the neighbors has it, and they share a wall, they have it too. I didn't think mold sickness was real till I got it. It's not something I would even consider playing with again.

    3Reply
  • John Bartlett
    Member since 2021 · 62 posts · 46 votes
    4y

    @Archer Stone You are in a hard spot, you probably don't have legal recourse but I would talk to a lawyer, today.

    With mold, it needs moisture. If you have mold, you have a water issue somewhere. A one time flood will not give the issues you are explaining, there has to be another issue.

    You can fix it, if you are not handy, it's going to be expensive, also sounds like it's not your issue to fix which is going to be more of a headache.

    You can clean up what you can see in your side, and sell the condo. Kick the can down the road. You could also refi, get a down payment out of it, and buy a new place and rent this one out.

    Bleach will kill it, so will Borax. It doesn't mean it won't come back if you don't fix the water issue.

    Good luck.

    0Reply
  • Caroline Gerardo
    Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Many angles to this. 

    What is in writing is only what matters. What people said is blah blah nothing in court for real estate.

    Get mold report from neighbor. Get a new mold inspection from a licensed company who did not do first report or neighbor report. Of the three you have some evidence. Then you need an attorney takes this on retainer or you need $200000 to pay him, maybe more.

    Deep pocket is HOA Master insurance policy, maybe brokerage brand errors and omission insurance, and maybe the seller... Likely percent you win I give you 9% My guess is you signed a waiver when you took the money. You probably have arbitration which generally sides with buyer especially if you did not have a buyer agent. Maybe they will give you $4000

    If you sell you have to disclose this. Even if you have a licensed clean up. 

    What they do: 

    1. find moisture / leak / fix

    2. air circulation  fans/ open windows day and night

    3. remove drywall, any fabric, porous material and replace  any new material you bring in will have some mold Everything has mold, it's in the air. Paper and wood feed the mold.

    4. Bleach the studs, vents, HVAC, and leave them open for air. They use concrobium mold control it can be purchased at hardware stores. Also used hydrogen peroxide. RMR-86 removes most of the stains. Clorox wipes with lemon smell less yucky. Benefect doesn't work that great. 

    fans, open windows, when you shower release the steam, get a moisture monitor, open the walls an look inside

    Send a demand letter to: seller, seller brokerage, HOA and see where it goes.

    If you are worried about the baby sell now and get out.

    Mold lawsuits don't go very far.






    0Reply
  • Bobby Kalchev
    Contractor · Townsend, DE · Member since 2019 · 24 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Nick C.:

    One note about mold remediation companies - they will 100% find mold in every dwelling in Florida. It's a guarantee, especially if they're the ones doing the remediating.


    That's why there are independent mold inspectors, to guarantee you a professional mold inspection without a conflict of interest. Unfortunately, few homebuyers are willing to pay 0.05% from the property value for such inspection and stories like this one are common. The home inspector IS NOT a mold professional. And btw, Penicillium mold can be dangerous because it is allergenic and can produce mycotoxins.

    1Reply
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