Seller lied about mold in the walls :-(
We bought a condo and moved in 5 days ago. Me, my wife, and 1yr old daughter
Inspector had found a small amount of mold under the sink in the inspection. Less than two square feet. Sent it to a lab and it tested as “penicillium,” not dangerous.
The seller said “it’s just on the surface” and wiped it away with bleach.
I insisted several times that we should cut into the walls to check, but the sellers kept saying it just was a tiny bit of mold so unnecessary. I checked with the mold lab and they said “the seller is probably right, its just a small amount and it’s not the dangerous kind, it’s not worth the trouble.”
The broker (supposed to be loyal to both sides and truthful and honest) sent us an email saying basically “it’s not a problem, we are not cutting the wall.”
Well, we negotiated a “buyers credit” for $1500, closed the deal and moved in last week.
Today I met the neighbor who shares that bathroom wall with us. Apparently she’s been staying in a hotel for weeks because it’s not livable in her apartment because of health problems from black mold!! She said it was too expensive for her to fix, so they’re just gonna clean the bare minimum and it’s gonna keep coming back
Apparently the backstory is: a few years ago an upstairs neighbor (now long gone) had a fight with the HOA, so they turned on the taps and stuffed tshirts in the sinks to flood the apartment and caused water & mold damage in the downstairs apartments.
What the actual F
We have a baby in here and we spent 90% of our savings to buy this condo, all cash. We have very little savings at this point
What would you do? Can we sue the seller or broker to cover costs of fixing it? I have emails from the broker with strong implications saying that the sellers said this is not a problem and it’s just a surface thing and it’s not in the walls.
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Mold is maybe horrible and maybe potentially dangerous. As a Contractor who dealt with this many times, mold is usually waaay over-blown. And waaay over-exaggerated by those in the industry. Same as Asbestos. Usually you can just ignore them both, but beware of running afoul of the bureaucrats because they can fine you out the butt.
As has been said though, this seems like the responsibility of the Condo HOA. Put some heat on them and see what happens. People freak out about Mold because it has the big aura around it nowadays......
Unlike asbestos, mold is really dangerous. And people freak out about it because about 60% of the people in US are negatively affected by it, to a different degree of course. And this number is growing. What has a big aura are fads like stainless steel appliances, granite countertops and never going to be used man caves, backyard porches and swimming pools.
Quote from @Archer Stone:
We bought a condo and moved in 5 days ago. Me, my wife, and 1yr old daughter
Inspector had found a small amount of mold under the sink in the inspection. Less than two square feet. Sent it to a lab and it tested as “penicillium,” not dangerous.
The seller said “it’s just on the surface” and wiped it away with bleach.
I insisted several times that we should cut into the walls to check, but the sellers kept saying it just was a tiny bit of mold so unnecessary. I checked with the mold lab and they said “the seller is probably right, its just a small amount and it’s not the dangerous kind, it’s not worth the trouble.”The broker (supposed to be loyal to both sides and truthful and honest) sent us an email saying basically “it’s not a problem, we are not cutting the wall.”
Well, we negotiated a “buyers credit” for $1500, closed the deal and moved in last week.
Today I met the neighbor who shares that bathroom wall with us. Apparently she’s been staying in a hotel for weeks because it’s not livable in her apartment because of health problems from black mold!! She said it was too expensive for her to fix, so they’re just gonna clean the bare minimum and it’s gonna keep coming backApparently the backstory is: a few years ago an upstairs neighbor (now long gone) had a fight with the HOA, so they turned on the taps and stuffed tshirts in the sinks to flood the apartment and caused water & mold damage in the downstairs apartments.
What the actual F
We have a baby in here and we spent 90% of our savings to buy this condo, all cash. We have very little savings at this point
What would you do? Can we sue the seller or broker to cover costs of fixing it? I have emails from the broker with strong implications saying that the sellers said this is not a problem and it’s just a surface thing and it’s not in the walls.
You have to be able to prove fraud. The broker will just say the didn't know, as will the seller. Unless you truly believe you can prove in a court of law the seller 100% knew about this issue, purposely covered it up, and thereby committed fraud you are only going to spend a lot of money on an attorney... Caveat Emptor.
@Archer Stone
Call a company to fix it, see if the hoa will pay for it. If not, Do a small heloc to help finance the repairs.
@Archer Stone I work with a mold remediation company in the northwest. Almost all houses here have mold in the attic crawl spaces or around leaky pipes. Is it dangerous? Yes it can be. But mold can be the thing that breaks the camels back. The only way to get rid of the mold is to tear the place down to the studs scrape and spray. And it’s not bleach. Don’t even bother. Let a professional take care of it. That being said I’ve been told that if a customer doesn’t have the money they could use an ozone machine in the home which’s apparently kills the mold spores that could be in the air. Also make sure the walls are sealed. So check around pipes. You don’t want to be exposed to the air that’s in your walls if they’re covered in mold. Also your heat vents if you have an HVAC. If there’s mold in the house there’s probably mold being circulated by the vents. Before we crack a wall we tape off the vents and turn the HVAC off. The vents should be cleaned if there was mold in the house but you don’t want the chance of cracking a wall opened and mold getting circulated to other areas of the house. I’m not totally familiar with ozone machines but I don’t think your supposed to run them all the time. So seal the walls up as best you can and start saving for a mold remediation. Insurance usually won’t pay for it. But you can check with them. On a personal level we’ve lived with black mold in our house for years. Something about the shoemaker that doesn’t have any shoes. The family has health issues that could be enhanced and aggravated by the mold. This summer we plan on tearing the bathroom apart and dealing with it. So will you drop over dead right away? No. But the affects could be long term. You can only do what you can do. Hope this helps some.
@John Bartlett Just thought I’d bring this up. Bleach was like a 70’s wife’s tale. It doesn’t get rid of it. We do mold remediation. If you don’t see the guys doing the mold remediation going into the house in full hazmat they don’t know what they’re doing. We won’t even do the demo to open up the walls without full hazmat. Wearing full hazmat all day sucks so if we didn’t need to believe me we wouldn’t. In most cases theres a lot of work that has to be done to the framing before you can even spray. The rooms involved have to be put under negative pressure. And the chemicals that are sprayed aren’t something you ever want to be breathing or touching your skin. Best advice as I stated in a post above is to seal up the walls and use an ozone machine for the time being. The ozone machine I was told to tell customers as the best option for a temporary fix. It doesn’t fix the problem it should be dealt with professionally. But I was told it will kill the mold in the air. You open up a wall though your really exposing yourself to it. That’s why it’s best to leave them sealed until the professionals can come in to crack the wall. If someone does crack a wall at the very least wear a respirator. And no not an n-95. N-95’s are a joke. An actual respirator.
We have used ozone machines in different houses, for different reasons. The ozone (3 oxygen molecules) replaces the breathable air in a room, making it non breathable until the ozone dissapates, so no, you don’t leave it on all the time. It hasn’t killed our plants, but we make sure the cats are out of the room, turn the ozone timer on, roll up a towel under the door so it stays in that room. And we let an hour go by afterwards to let the air back in the room. The ozone breaks apart mold in the room, and clears various scents. It does not seep into hard surfaces or get into the cavities behind the walls.
Get an expert evaluation to see whether you need to do more. It is currently sealed behind the walls, and maybe in the vents/ducts. Those can be cleaned. If you open up a wall and disturb the mold, it spreads.
Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:
@Archer Stone personal opinion with no legal validity? You are in a tough spot.
One thing hasn’t been addressed, often the hoa is required to keep minutes, records etc. if a dispute got to this point there should be some record. We’re these documents requested and not disclosed?
I wouldn’t take the next door “mold lady” at her word either. Mold? Yes toxic dangerous mold? I wouldn’t believe it unless I saw some proof. It’s often claimed and often wrong/false
I have seen the mold in her apartment, it is black mold.
Her four-year-old son is coughing and says his stomach and throat hurt. They had to move to a hotel.
The neighbors who had to move to a hotel (the lady and her son) are tenants, renting from the condo's owner. That condo owner sent his handyman yesterday to rip out the moldy drywall and spray bleach... but he did not rip out the carpets, which are also full of mold. Now I believe this irresponsible condo owner will put our apartment (along with other neighbors apartments) at risk, because he's not willing to rip up the carpets. Is there any recourse I have against THIS guy?
@Jeffrey Rittenour bleach will kill it, just not in porous materials line wood, drywall etc. Which is why it's not used in professional services, and why it "comes back". It also doesn't prevent future growth.
The ozone machine should not be used in occupied areas, it's just as bad as the mold. It can actually damage the lungs, and cause respiratory issues fyi. Never thought about it for mold spore control.
I've had to wear respirators on a few of my customers sites because they had mold when I was really sensitive to it. If my job was mold remediation on a daily basis,I would full hazmat suite as well. It can be nasty stuff if not corrected.
Interesting story.
Here in Florida with the 06 housing boom, we had a rich neighbor get build really quickly with the perfect storm of issues. The hvac system for all of the houses was over sized for the heat load, not allowing the systems to run enough building uproot much humidity in the house, they also all used the wonderful Chinese drywall. I know they had a ton of issues in those houses, I've even seen some pictures of the wiring,outlets and plumbing in the walls having corrosion issues because of the humidity and mold issues.