Asset Protection from Anderson Business Advisors or other firms.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

I read posts by Jerry W where he stated speculation, but no facts. Given his experience in investing, I was surprised to read him state that asset protection (specifically from Anderson Business) is "probably" more expensive than most people on BP can afford, yet he stated nothing from first hand knowledge, but rather just an assumption. I hope he doesn't invest based on assumptions as well. I'll be happy to share his speculation and my research one on one. When it comes right down to it, if I'm going to take the time to invest, then I'm also going to take the time to protect these same investments. I'm paying nowhere near the amount that you're asserting that others have paid. Feel free to get with me one-on-one and I'll be glad to share the first hand information that I received so can assess this for yourself. My investment company is my baby that I'm building from the ground up, I sure don't want my baby to not be protected from a personal or investment position. Maybe you can get with me one-on-one and tell me the peoples names of the posts you've read?

Jerry W.Pro Member

Moderator

Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

@Account Closed, I see you are bashing me again, my turn. First my speculation and assumptions are based on decades of investing and doing actual liability protection work. You on the other hand have ZERO experience. You talk about how you are going to protect money you have never made. You are the drugstore cowboy carrying around the saddle for three years and telling everyone else how to ride a horse, but you have never ridden a horse. You even are so sure of yourself you insult others who have ridden for decades. You have had an LLC for 3 year, but have never invested yet. Now that is funny. You are talking about how you want to be able to countersue someone who files a frivolous lawsuit against you, so you will register your LLC as a foreign company. Talk about wasted money. The basics of liability protection are pretty much the same. Some states have special laws or court rulings that give the owner or member more protection than others, but the principals of liability are nearly the same. I have read and talked to two folks who have used Anderson and gotten information on some of their prices. I am sure Anderson provides competent service. What I don't like is the secret sauce approach. If you buy our product you will never get sued or they will never get your assets because of our secret and effective plan we will sell you. Their prices are very high compared to other very competent firms I have used., but you can pay whatever you want. The reality is that it is not that complicated to provide good advice for liability protection. However no one can guarantee you will not be sued or not lose your assets. The more hype the more I dislike the pitch. The way you get huge fees is to get folks to believe that what you are selling is not available anywhere else. You plan to invest someday. If you buy shares of stock you will never be liable and so don't need an LLC to protect you. If you buy real estate it is a good idea to have an LLC and maybe more depending on what you do. Now if you own a house 3 states away and have a property manager who takes care of it, and it is in an LLC and someone dies in it from monoxide poisoning, even if they sue you, they will not win. Now if you have an LLC, a land trust, a blind trust, a corporation and another trust all in the chain of title, and you work on the boiler and mess up the vent pipe and folks die from monoxide poisoning you will be sued personally and you will lose, and they find all of your assets easily by a few interrogatories and depositions. You can never be anonymous if you are the person directing the day to day affairs of a business. You can still be personally sued and lose assets if you personally did a bad act. There are some ways to protect some of your assets but you will lose control over them. If you ran your company correctly they will not be able to pierce the veil. If you did not run it right they will be able to pierce. The basic problem here is that you understand so little about the principals of liability you have no idea what rules are at play, and that makes your advice so dangerous. You are free to hire Anderson. If I see you advising folks to buy their service I will expose your advice for what it is ill informed. They probably offer a very good service, in fact it is very likely they do. The price and secret sauce thing worries me. I have represented folks who are worth over $100 million. there is always a team involved. There are lawyers, accountants, advisors, insurance experts, appraisers, etc. Some of them spend more than even Anderson probably charges their average client. The difference is the income and assets justify it. A guy who has carried a saddle for 3 years and doesn't own a horse doesn't justify that kind of expense. The truth is that most folks win when they are hit with frivolous lawsuits. There are some folks who cannot afford an attorney and lose on a technicality. If they are so poor they cannot afford an attorney they don't have many assets to go after. Some get nuisance settlements, but most that win have a very good reason why they win.

There are folks on this site who make more money in one deal than you or I make in 20 years. They spend money to form companies, and even defend lawsuits when needed. Folks like Brian Burke, or Jay Henrichs, etc. None of them do all of these contorted protection plans and they are very savvy investors. You are free to hire Anderson, but if I see you advising folks I will be quick to point out how little you know and why I think your advice is not very intelligent. I will also be glad to trade insults as you seem to want to do that.

4 Reply

Dan Schwartz

Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes

9y

@Account Closed I've seen that Clint Coons video and think that Anderson Business Advisors would be perfect for what you are trying to achieve.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

I've done nothing more than provide information. When you literally state that a service is "probably more" than what people can afford, that is literally speculation and that is what I said, that is not bashing. I've literally said that I'm providing information so that others can assess for themselves what they want/need as I spoke about not only the service but the firm in question. If you think that me providing this information and the reason why I'm providing this information is insulting to you, then it's your fault for giving my that kind of power. Yes, I have an LLC that I haven't done anything in yet. If you're looking to try to insult me, you're going to have to dig deeper than that AND that is not what I'd expect from a seasoned investor or moderator. I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but in the podcasts that I've listened to so far have specifically referenced books by Robert Kiyosaki. Hmmm. Page 245 from his "Guide to Investing" says:

"If you are serious about doing business, then you do not want to do business as a private citizen. That is too risky, especially in this day and age of lawsuits." He goes on to say "If you want to be a rich private citizen, you need to be as poor and penniless as possible on paper. The poor and the middle class, on the other hand, want to own everything in their name. 'Pride of ownership' they call it. I call anything with your name on it a 'target for predators and lawyers".

Now this guy would also laugh at me having a LLC that hasn't been used in Arizona and rightly so. Since I do plan to go back to Arizona and invest, it's not such a bad investment after all, but not that I planned it that well from the start. Since Robert Kiyosaki is a best-selling author and people are saying that his book "Rich Dad Poor Dad" series is their favorite book, I figure that he's not only the one example to follow, but to share his information as well. I'm only disappointed that a seasoned investor such as yourself sees that providing this information from another investor and BEST-SELLING AUTHOR is perceived as being contentious. I see not only his information as valuable, but yours as well. I'll take the nuggets of wisdom from yours, but choose to begin with asset protection. I'm really sorry that this is a sore subject for you. I'll be right back to finish this post.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

Once again you state "I'm sure that Anderson provides competent service", meaning you don't know for sure, but have decided to come back at me because of what I've not only said about them, but what I've said about what you don't know about them. Hmmm. I could respond to every little thing that you said, but I didn't take the time to read your whole response. I'm sure there are nuggets in there and I'm actually getting a good laugh at the fact that I have an LLC in Arizona that isn't doing anything. As a matter of fact, I shared some laughs with some investors in St. Louis this week over the very same thing and we all thought it was pretty funny. Get that, someone who's so afraid to pull the trigger on something that he starts an LLC and doesn't do anything with it. What a waste. If you're against asset protection that much, then good on you, but I'm all about protecting the very soon-to-be company that I'm going to be building from the ground up. I don't need a huge company with hundreds of LLCs to start out with. I start with Missouri and get my LLCs and C Corporation with appropriate structuring in Nevada for anonymity compliance and charging order protection and that's what is my business/company plan. If that doesn't work for you or you see that as worthless, well good for you. I'm surprised that you're so threatened by someone providing information regardless of whether or not you endorse the concepts or not. I've even made it clear that while someone may not do business with this firm in Nevada, the information that they provide is great. Since this is all about due diligence, then watching some youtube videos online for FREE doesn't seem like there's anything to lose for anybody, whether it's you or someone reading these posts. In the end, I'm sorry that you're threatened. I state facts and can clearly laugh about my own stupidity. Robert Kiyosaki (to mention him again) is a best-selling author, are you?? Is anyone mentioning books authored by Jerry W?? Robert Kiyosaki is not the only one that talks about asset protection (which can lead to tax advantages/benefits), but he's the one I'm quoting. Go with or without Anderson, the information is the same. I've never seen anyone so threatened by information. This is biggerpockets, right? Where as much information is gathered for the benefit of the community as possible so that the community can decide for itself what best suits their business needs.

While there are folks on this site that do not do this asset protection stuff, who are you to say that the information can't or shouldn't be provided because little Jerry W says so. Grow up. "If I see you advising folks to buy their (Anderson) service, I will expose your advice for what it is ill informed. They probably offer a very good service, in fact it is very likely they do." I'm trying not to chuckle as I what you claim and say. You're going to expose me for my advice that is ill informed and you clearly state "They PROBABLY offer a very good service......" meaning that you do not have first hand knowledge at all. Now who is ill informed???? Everyone's risk tolerance is different as both Brandon Turner and Josh Dorkin have said not to mention countless others. So for those of us who have low risk tolerance, we choose to implement asset protection and use any tax advantages that those measures of asset protection advise. Tell you what, you continue to bash asset protection and then come after me for being ill informed "say it ain't so - the mortal wound of Jerry W coming after me" and I'll continue to research and share what I find out without appearing to solicit any specific firm. In the end, the community can actually decide for themselves if they even want the protection or to what level they want to implement protection that does come with some tax benefits. Again, I've never met someone so threatened by information.

Oh, I'm going to be exposed by Jerry W. I'll try not to lose sleep tonight because the great Jerry W contradicts information that Robert Kiyosaki clearly advocates and endorses.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

Just to provide some background information, I'm a medically retired Marine of 15 1/2 years. I've been called and told some pretty crazy stuff in my lifetime. You're going to have to dig pretty deep on those "insults" if you're going to try to trigger a response. I'm getting some popcorn dude. Later.

Jerry W.Pro Member

Moderator

Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

OK @Account Closed, I see you are back. Before I insult you let me thank you for your service. My baby brother just retired from the Army 2 days ago after serving about 34 years. I should have guessed you were a marine. They are known for being very intelligent and astute, hence the nickname jar head for all the knowledge they have in their head.

First you should read the articles that Brandon has written about the demographics of the folks who frequent this site. Most of them are like you new to investing or have yet to even do their first deal. You might notice that Bigger Pockets publishes books, it might surprise you that they aim for a broad audience. The books, like the Beginners Guide to Investing, How To Invest With Low and No money Down, Scott Trenches book Set For Life, Great Deals, etc have something in common. These books are aimed at new investors who don't have a lot of money. That is the demographics of the majority of the folks on this site. Having seen what it costs both the rich and the folks with very little money pay for liability protection, I have a much better idea of what is reasonable and what is high priced. As you have never purchased either it is interesting to see you act all smug and claim I don't actually know what they charge. As I mentioned earlier I have sen some of their pricing. They actually have different tiers like silver, gold, platinum, etc. That in and of itself concerns me. that is a sales technique. One guy I conversed with mentioned how they were having a sale when he talked to them and got upgraded to a better package for very little more money than the one he was looking at. that form of advertising and pricing is generally not allowed in my state by the Bar and probably not in many others, but is allowed when you mix in accounting and tax services. I am not trying to discourage the free exchange of information, I am trying to keep you from helping what appears to be a glorified GURU sales pitch to folks who don't need it and at a grossly inflated price in my opinion. the problem is that you don't understand the legality of liability enough to articulate why you need the kind of liability protection they are selling and how it will work for you. My first read on Anderson had several glowing references about how wonderful they were. those references were by folks who had only 1 or very few posts on the site. i commented to be VERY careful of that. I have seen that before and they turned out to be fake profiles folks created to give bogus endorsements. The method of selling this "deal" is so similar to the GURU pitches I have seen. Just buy my course it offers proven information used by hundreds to create wealth. We will show you our secret effective way that is guaranteed to create wealth. Use our proven method of protecting your assets, creditors will never find your assets if you follow our proven liability program. the truth is that liability protection is not that complicated, and not that expensive. An LLC and a Sub S Corp meet the needs of most folks, and the cost would be less than a thousand in many cases.

My computer keeps dropping the page and I have to retype so I will make this brief. Articulate to me if you can your plan of investing. To use a metaphor, pretend you actually have a horse, explain what you want the horse to do and how it will do it. I want to see how you plan to invest and how you can do it anonymously and still be effective, and how liability may attach. I am especially interested in how you can counter sue and remain anonymous. Finally I am interested in how much profit you will be making to justify the complex form of liability protection.

Now I understand that you admitted you did not read all of what I wrote and I completely understand that you had to break your reply up into three responses. Feel free to do that again. You might try sitting while you type and keep the sentences simple and the words short if it helps. Please do not injure yourself in any way while working on this, it is not worth it. I will also try not to be threatened by a jarhead explaining the principles of liability to me and what the value of legal services should be. Be happy and safe. I look forward to your response. :)

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

So their different levels of pricing "concerns" you. Now without getting accurate information or getting a consultation from them (aka pulling the trigger) aren't you exercising the same skepticism of paralysis analysis, but with asset protection vice property analysis? I've got a consultation that lasted 30 minutes and was free. You have nothing more than "concerns". Put your big boy pants on.

Because I'm a spread the wealth/knowledge kind of guy in order for the greater community to be able to learn from all the information provided, I'm going to provide 2 links here. Now, both links are of Clint Coons providing information not only about asset protection, but about charging order protection. Not only is he a real estate attorney, but he's a real estate investor as well. Since he does this for a living, (just like Kiyosaki writes books and one of them I quoted earlier), I think this guy "probably" knows what he's talking about.

Now, one of the reasons why I recommend (after watching his video) that company/business structure is set up BEFORE starting to invest is for the reason that he mentions at approximate the 14 minute mark in the 2d video I've provided. (At least it's important for those looking for anonymity compliance, meaning they don't want anyone to know that they own assets in case someone comes after them). I include the links because Clint better articulates the setup that I'm choosing that works for me.

See, I'm of the mindset that I'm not going to be the one to decide whether or not the greater BP community can afford to pursue educating themselves about a topic whether it's asset protection or any other topic that is discussed on BP. These men and women are big boys and girls. They're in the less than 3% of the population (also from Kiyosaki) that decides to invest in their future and decides to educate themselves. By virtue of the fact that they decide to educate themselves shows a step forward that 97% of the population doesn't take. Since they're make that decision, I'm thinking they're smart enough to decide for themselves what they can afford and what is best for them. If I were them, I would actually be insulted that you would take it upon yourself to decide for me what I can or can't afford. But that's just me.

No one has to use the information on the links that I've provided from Clint Coons or use his service, but the information is provided by an attorney who himself is a real estate investor. Now, does setting up my company according to the structure that Clint discusses in his video delay me from pulling the trigger on stepping forward and making my first investment? Absolutely, but I'm more than ok with that because (for me) asset protection is a serious concern of mine. Since I'm taking the time to invest and build my baby (company) from the ground up, I want to protect that investment company as well. Who are you to say that me taking my hard earned and deserved money and putting it into asset protection is a waste of money. Don't use asset protection, good on you and I seriously hope that you never have to use it. If you've never had anybody come after you for any litigation, that's awesome too, but not everyone will be as fortunate. I make a bit more money than the average person because of disability benefits coming it and I CHOOSE to use that money initially to create asset protection.

You don't need to protect anyone from anything. Again, these are big boys and girls who can and will make up their minds for themselves. Have you contacted ANY attorney regardless of whether or not it's Clint Coons and received the information first hand? I have. Have you received a consultation? I have. "I'm not trying to discourage the free exchange of information, I am trying to keep you from helping what APPEARS to be a glorified GURU sales pitch to folks who don't need it and at a grossly inflated price IN MY OPINION." I just quoted you making a statement using nothing more than speculation on your part, not to mention the fact that IN YOUR OPINION, you're going to decide what's best for me because you know my business/company plan so well that you're the one that's in the best place to make those kinds of decisions for me. Hmmm. What "APPEARS to be a glorified GURU", you don't know, but you're asserting and making it very clear that he "appears" to be a guru. "to folks who don't need it", so you know what the entire BP community needs now. Maybe you should start your own website since you're the one in the best place to decide what's good and bad for the folks of BP, but maybe call it smaller pockets since you know that the income of the community of BP can't attain or maintain the structuring mentioned by someone who "APPEARS to be a glorified GURU". Hmm. I'm not so arrogant to think I'm the one in a position to make that choice for the greater BP community. I can make that choice for me and only for me. If you do start "smaller pockets", let me know how that works out for you. But since we're actually having this conversation on BIGGERPOCKETS, I'm thinking let THIS community decide for themselves. I honestly don't think I've ever come in contact with someone so arrogant as to think he actually knows what's best for the rest of the community, not to mention that you only state speculation because you've never talked to anyone directly yourself.

Just by your assumptions and speculation alone, I'm thinking that the BP community can decide for themselves that while you, yourself, do have your wisdom that you can share with the community, that your lack of knowledge in asset protection and arrogance to thinking that you know what's best for the rest of the community will lead others to decide for themselves if they give credibility to your posts. By virtue of the fact that you're the arrogant, I'll do my own due diligence before applying/implementing anything you suggest based on what "APPEARS" to be certain to you.

In closing, the videos, nor I said anything about no one being personally sued, but ironically enough, that's something else that Clint Coons talks about. Are you an attorney? Given the legal forum that many find themselves in today because of trigger happy frivolous lawsuits that are filed everyday, do YOU have any information about asset protection that can protect these people. The way I see it is that while many dismiss asset protection (and that's more than ok), there are those who WILL face legal issues down the road through no fault of their own. The way I see it, I can't afford NOT to have asset protection. Now, again, put on your big boy pants and go watch the videos. When you're done (IF you watch them), try NOT to make speculation based on information that you do NOT have because of how you THINK something "appears".

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

Allow me to make something clear here as well. I'm nowhere near making light of the "concerns" that many have. I have concerns as well, which is the very reason I'm looking and have been researching asset protection, the "concerns" that I put in quotations in my previous post are directed directly at Jerry W for not doing his homework and making nothing short of assumptions based on APPEARANCES.

Dan Schwartz

Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes

9y

@Account Closed if you are looking for a competitive bid to weigh against what Anderson will charge, try the company Robert & Kim Kiyosaki use: https://www.corporatedirect.com

Here is a newer WY LLC owned by the Kiyosakis which does not have their name anywhere in the WY filing. Corporate Direct uses a nominee to establish their LLCs, exactly as Clint Coons described in his YouTube video: https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=252208163004231105147017219094035020020093089172

Now you have two sources to bid against each other for your business.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

Dan Schwartz. That is AWESOME!!!! Thank you so much for that, I really appreciate it.

Jerry W.Pro Member

Moderator

Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

@Account Closed you really should link my name in sop i know you are still talking about me. Hmm, you ask "Are you an attorney?" "Do you have information about asset protection that can help these people?" Actually yes I am an attorney. Yes I have provided asset protection services for people, and yes I often answer questions on this site. Yes I know enough to know you do not understand liability, let alone liability protection. The overhead cost of any expense in running a business has a direct effect on how much the business makes in profit and how fast it can grow. While you don't try to understand I will try to explain it again in more simple terms if you don't read the whole post and just say see you didn't buy the product so you don't know anything. Liability is based on legal principles. The type of investing you do has a lot to do with how you are liable. You can invest anonymously, but it is much more expensive, and unless you have a LOT of money it is impossible to get loans to invest with from banks or others. I challenged you to explain how you wanted to invest so I could show you step by step how it works, but instead of doing that you rely on saying "put on your big boy pants" Wow definitely an intellectual argument. I assume that is the best you can do. Part of what I do on this site is look for things that might be misleading or even fraudulent. I have talked to folks online who have been ripped off by others who posted on BP. BP cannot guarantee the content of any advertisements, that doesn't mean they don't try to self police the site as best they can with so many open forums. I do know about liability protection, and I do know about the prices of legal fees. I have been an attorney for almost 30 years. I have seen a lot folks with new and improved methods of protection that they say are foolproof and secret, but I have not seen any of them that have lasted for decades. Most are gone within a few years. you can get dam good liability protection for less than a thousand dollars, and even if you spend a few thousand dollars you should get even better protection. My concern is that the guy who only has $50K listens to this pitch and spends $20K or so this package. It puts him back several years from getting to his goals. If you start with $30K instead of $48K you will not go as far or as fast. Money in your pocket does matter in investing in real estate. Someone who is saving a few hundred bucks from every paycheck to invest, doesn't need a $20K package to invest with. Furthermore the $20K package being sold by Anderson will not work for someone who has to get bank financing, or owner financing. Have you ever seen or read about how GURUs work? They create a lot of hype to get folks to use their credit card to buy something for many many times what it is worth. That is what I am trying to avoid here. The guy losing a year or twos worth of savings. I am not worried about the guy who has a net worth of a million or two. Those guys can afford to invest in the way Anderson styles their protection.

I challenged you to explain how you planned to invest, so I could show you about investing. You are apparently afraid to do so as it may make you look dumb. It is way too late to worry about that. Are you claiming that you have discovered a way to invest that is secret and proven to make millions and you don't want folks stealing it without paying you $50K each?

Apparently you are unable to articulate your plan. To use a metaphor, despite packing a saddle around and not owning a horse, you are unable to describe how you want to ride a horse, or what you want to do on a horse. Get rid of the saddle or buy a horse. if you tell me what you want to do with the horse, herd cows, or race at the racetrack, or plow a field, I can help explain the kind of horse you should be looking for and you can compare them for yourself. You can even ask other folks on BP to compare them too and see how they pan out. I clearly do not know everything, but I can assure you I know a lot more about liability than you do. You probably know a lot more about how to strip down an M16 in the dark, or how to seek cover if artillery is hitting by you based on your training or experience, or you may know more about peeling potatoes than I do. Either way training, and experience teach you something. I have decades on you when it comes to investing and liability. I am trying to protect folks from overpaying for a service nearly none of them need. I do believe in liability protection, but not the type being sold by Anderson for new investors who are not wealthy. Feel free to put out how this protection works and why it will work for you if you are capable of doing that. Put the issue before some of the accountants on this site as well.

On the other hand you can answer my post with your usual, how arrogant you are, put on your big boy pants, etc. without ever really stating a single fact.

I do admit I feel a bit guilty about this exchange of comments, as a type of battle of the wits, it is almost like shooting an unarmed man.

OK your turn.

Jerry W.Pro Member

Moderator

Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

By the way, I looked at those videos, and called their company and talked to folks online about the company before I ever posted anything about Anderson.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

If you talked to their company and asked folks about them before posting online then why did you previously state they were "probably" high cost amongst other terms you used. Obviously not from someone who has experience with them. They "appear" to be gurus. Hmmm.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

I would actually link in your name, but I'm not that savvy and honestly don't know how to. Since you are an attorney, you have less excuse than anyone for your previous content. Also, anonymity compliance was brought up by me so that others would know it is an option. Do you understand what an option is? It means that you can choose to dismiss it if you want to since it may not be right for your own business/company. It also doesn't suit you to respond asking if the big boy pants comment is the best I can do. I save my good stuff for the grown ups. You'd need to step up your game to get my good stuff. When you state not only that you are an attorney and that you've been an attorney for as long as you have been, that only discredits your own push to stop the free exchange of information from others. I'm disappointed that you would do so with such vigor, but I'm not surprised as I get to know you. Again, "Someone who is saving a few hundreds bucks from every paycheck to invest, doesn't need a $20K package to invest with." Again, the arrogance of you actually deciding what other people should invest in is nauseating to say the least. Also, who said anything about $20K? The quote I was given was nowhere near $1K, much less $20K. Again, more speculation.

When it comes to showing you how I plan to invest, that is the very reason why I added the links to the videos since this is one option that I'm looking at. "Are you claiming that you have discovered a way to invest that is secret and proven to make millions and you don't want folks stealing it without paying you $50K each?" I'm really not sure where you're getting this stuff at. It doesn't even merit a response.

The funny thing is that I told you that there is no doubt you've got some pearls of wisdom that come with your experience, however by virtue of your experience, you also have less excuse for some of the content that you're vainly attempting to respond back to me with.

Woah, shooting an unarmed man, a battle of wits. Little Jerry responds back. I've been losing sleep from real problems of insurgents coming after me ever since I got back from Iraq because they are against a cause that I'm willing to die for. You hardly worry me at all. What you see as a "battle of wits" is where I'm actually learning a FEW things from what you said (including the private message that you sent me where I responded and told you to grow up), but see mostly speculation. I gave you my number, I completely understand why you didn't call me to talk this out like men. I'm also not surprised about that either. Let me know when you've got some content like what you share where you're not coming to conclusions based on "appearances" and what may be gurus, yet you've already been on the phone with them and so on and so forth.

Jerry W.Pro Member

Moderator

Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

@Account Closed in order to link someones name in it is pretty simple. Hit the @ key followed by ?, that will give you a list of everyone who has posted in that thread. it gets a little harder if they have not posted in the thread as you must be a colleague to the. Then you hit @ and type in the letters of their name on BP. Again you must be colleague for this to work.

As to your still waking up to insurgents in Iraq I am sorry to hear that. If that is happening you need to get help. If you got shot you seek medical help, PTSD is just as real as a bullet. You will not be able to invest or be a good dad or husband if you don't win the fight with the demons. Why fight them alone when there are trained people who will fight with you?

As to your reply I see a glaring thing missing. your investment plan. I see you "save the good stuff for the grownups" comment, an intellectual milestone for you, but no plan. I asked if you were afraid to post it. I guess you answered in your own way. What is the worst that will happen? You show you are right and embarrass me, or on the other hand you might learn something. Either way your not posting pretty much sums up this conversation. You apparently don't know what a horse is.

Your turn.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

I'm not sure why I didn't think about this before. But with the cost of asset protection being expensive or inexpensive,.....either way, it's a TAX WRITE OFF. In other words, the asset protection is basically for FREE IF you have the right asset protection. Without asset protection (i.e. Corporations or LLCs), then you actually have to pay for asset protection out of pocket. Being a seasoned investor, it's really disturbing to think that you don't know that. A TAX WRITE OFF, thus providing what essentially turns into FREE asset protection.

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

You're in no place to offer or suggest advice when it comes to treatment of a veteran. It's just as nauseating to see that you would attempt to as it is nauseating to see that you're arrogant enough to try to decide what's right for the BP community. You're only a day late and dollar short. As if treatment has never been thought of or pursued.

Dan Schwartz

Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes

9y

@Account Closed don't forget that the expense of asset protection prior to having any assets to protect will be considered a "start-up cost" by the IRS. Start-up costs are not deductible; they are amortizable over 180 months (15 years), with some exceptions. As such, you might not see the full tax benefit of this expense for quite some time.

Podcast Guest on Show #244

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

9y

Whether you do or don't buy a system or program of asset protection and tax services matters not to me. I'd see their average client profile and see if, in general, it is you. My guess is they are mostly higher net worth folks with active business and a lot of assets to protect.

I have LLCs for my larger commercial assets and an s-corp for a holding/mgt co all done with the counsel of an excellent and affordable local attorney. No ongoing fees or costs and no platinum or gold or whatever program. I saw no need for a system or plan, but that's just me.

As far as 'tax write-offs', I'm not a CPA, but from what I understand, things that apply to an existing business may be deducted. Deductions help you to the extent of offsetting income from that business at your existing marginal rate. For me, deductions result in less than a 10% offset because I have a ridiculous amount of depreciation and no w-2. Not much of a 'write-off'. Even if you are able to 'fully deduct' these expenses, they will reduce your tax bill by your marginal rate only. Education for and protection of something that doesn't yet exist may not offset anything. I'll ask @Linda Weygant for clarification if she has time.

Lastly - I don't understand your hatred and animosity toward @Jerry W. It's not like he benefits from discouraging people from getting involved in an expensive and gimmicky-sounding program. BP is a forum to share our experiences and opinions. I've never seen him offer anything but the best advice he knows and an empathetic ear. You make me embarrassed to share that I also was a Marine. You're just not nice. Go buy that program if you want to. Peace!

3 Reply

Linda WeygantPro Member

Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

9y

@Steve Vaughan - thanks for the tag. I have nothing to add to your excellent responses. You know your stuff!

OP

Cape Girardeau, MO · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 25 votes

9y

Steve Vaughan. Jerry W is old news. Thanks for the current information, it's appreciated.

Jerry W.Pro Member

Moderator

Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

@Account Closed now you are down to calling me arrogant, which I probably am, and that you are nauseated or nauseating, which is also probably true. I am breaking one of my father's rules about not arguing with a fool as people passing by cannot tell which one is the fool. Still I have a stubborn streak as i suspect you have so I will try again.

Lets use an analogy you might understand. lets say you buy a rental and you get $700 per month in rent. You pay $350 for the mortgage, you set aside $100 a month for repairs, $50 for cap ex, $100 for taxes and insurance, and $50 for vacancy. you net $50 each month if all goes well. Now if you need to replace a toilet and you can buy one for $100 great, you set aside $100 that month and use it to buy the toilet. Maybe you want a nicer $200 toilet. Now you lost $50 that month because you spent all of your maintenance lost your $50profit and have to come up with $50. Now the toilet is tax deductible, but it was not free. Now you decide to to buy a $1,200 toilet. you just blew a full years worth of maintenance budget. Pay $36,000 for that toilet and you are going out of business, even though you can deduct or depreciate that toilet, because you went broke. that toilet may be a GREAT toilet. It may be the best toilet ever built, and you can flush bowling balls down that toilet. it gets worse, lets say you bought the toilet before you bought a house! Now you cannot afford a house for a few more years, because you bought a $36,000 toilet. Now maybe some houses need to be able to flush bowling balls down the toilet, but the average rental does not. A guy who owns a million dollar house may want the $36,000 toilet, but he can afford it. He may need to flush bowling balls down a toilet but you don't. Now a plumber tells you that you really don't need a $36,000 toilet, but this upsets you and so you insult him, tell him to grow up, and that he is arrogant, and that you are nauseating. You watched a Utube video and believe you need a $36,000 toilet, because the plumber on Utube wants to sell $36,000 toilets. The toilets are on the Platinum plan. The plumber asks you to explain why you think you need a $36,000 toilet. You tell him to put on big boy pants. You are free to purchase all the $36,000 toilets you want, but if I see you trying to get others to buy $36,000 toilets I will explain to them that you really have no clue about toilets and don't know what you are talking about.

As to not giving advice to Veterans, what do you expect. you post about still dealing with insurgents coming after you on a public forum read by thousands. You either wanted sympathy, were crying for help, or making stuff up. Either way you need help. Despite our verbal exchange, which I have strangely enjoyed I do not want to see something bad happen to you. A veteran commits suicide about every 22 minutes in the US. That is pretty alarming. Often they have not sought help, or stopped getting help. I have many relatives who have served and are serving in the military in combat. My father suffered from PTSD when he came back from Korea and it affected him for many years. My brother did numerous tours in combat zones, and I have several nephews who have done multiple combat tours and deployments.

You clearly have anger and impulse issues, neither of which are uncommon. I deal with veterans in my job much more than I like to. Many struggle with addiction and other issues that negatively affect their life. Your post says you have not sought help for this.

Anyway, please think about the toilet thing, that may make more sense to you.

Good luck and please get help.

Jerry W.Pro Member

Moderator

Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

@Account Closed, let me try to explain one more thing that I am not as good at. When you have a deduction, like a toilet, when you buy it you deduct the cost of it from your income to determine profit. So if you made $1,000 that year and then deduct that $200 toilet you make less profit. You only made $800 profit. Now if your particular tax rate was 25% you saved paying $50 in taxes. If you had purchased a $100 toilet instead of a $200 toilet you would have a profit of $900. You would pay $25 more taxes, but you would have another $100 in profit meaning you have $75 more at the end of the year even after paying taxes. If you paid $1,000 for the toilet you have no taxes, but no profit. The $900 you would have made in profit, less 25% would have been yours. If you paid $36,000 for the toilet you have to come up with the money out of your own pocket or the bank will foreclose on you as you cannot pay the mortgage if you spent several years of profit on a toilet. Expenses only save you a percentage of what you would pay in taxes, not all of it.