Why do so many Wholesalers have such a problem running numbers?
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2020 · 52 posts · 42 votes
Why do so many Wholesalers have such a problem running numbers?
Most Popular Reply
Wholesaler · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 398 posts · 680 votes
1yI feel like it's always been like this, but I've sensed an uptick as well. I help guys dispo deals, and I kick back over 90% of them as I will not have egg on my face pushing out a bad deal to my premium buyers list. At this point, I just assume if a wholesaler sends me a deal to JV that their numbers are off. Most of them do not want to have the difficult conversations with sellers in negotiations and do not realize how difficult it is to get a seller to commit to selling their home for 50% of ARV. They tend to be desperate to get a "yes" from a seller and hope that they'll find a sucker of a buyer.
Simply put, people just don't want to put in the work these days to become professionals at their craft. It gives all wholesalers such a bad name, especially the ones who are exceptional at what they do.
30 Replies
- 1yMatthew CrivelliBusiness MemberLender · MA · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votesThis is common practice among wholesalers. Trying to get people under contract and see if it will stick. If it doesn't they keep the earnest money and move on to the next investor / property.
Quote from @James Guillot:
Lately, I have been noticing a trend. Wholesalers have been sending me deals with ARVs too high, rehab estimats too low, and they aren't calculating closing costs, holding costs, or profit spreads (let alone extras, like hard money costs).
Obviously, this isn't a new problem, but it's more consistent than I remember. Is there a new "guru" in town teaching bad math? Should I dump these Wholesalers and try to find new ones for my area or is there something else going on?
I will get investors who bring us flips from wholesalers with essentiality fake numbers, then I'll go over the comps I'm seeing and bring them back to reality. Never trust rehab figures or comps coming from a wholesaler. You 100% need to do your own due diligence. This is super common in areas like Cleveland OH where the price point is so low you get out of state investors from CA who just buy in cash, no appraisal, and then get stuck with a nightmare of a scenario.
Freedom Capital Funding, LLC523 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Guillot:
Lately, I have been noticing a trend. Wholesalers have been sending me deals with ARVs too high, rehab estimats too low, and they aren't calculating closing costs, holding costs, or profit spreads (let alone extras, like hard money costs).
Obviously, this isn't a new problem, but it's more consistent than I remember. Is there a new "guru" in town teaching bad math? Should I dump these Wholesalers and try to find new ones for my area or is there something else going on?
You have to be smart to do math. Wholesalers ain't smart bro.
- Wholesaler · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 398 posts · 680 votes1y
I feel like it's always been like this, but I've sensed an uptick as well. I help guys dispo deals, and I kick back over 90% of them as I will not have egg on my face pushing out a bad deal to my premium buyers list. At this point, I just assume if a wholesaler sends me a deal to JV that their numbers are off. Most of them do not want to have the difficult conversations with sellers in negotiations and do not realize how difficult it is to get a seller to commit to selling their home for 50% of ARV. They tend to be desperate to get a "yes" from a seller and hope that they'll find a sucker of a buyer.
Simply put, people just don't want to put in the work these days to become professionals at their craft. It gives all wholesalers such a bad name, especially the ones who are exceptional at what they do.- Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2020 · 52 posts · 42 votes1y
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
I feel like it's always been like this, but I've sensed an uptick as well. I help guys dispo deals, and I kick back over 90% of them as I will not have egg on my face pushing out a bad deal to my premium buyers list. At this point, I just assume if a wholesaler sends me a deal to JV that their numbers are off. Most of them do not want to have the difficult conversations with sellers in negotiations and do not realize how difficult it is to get a seller to commit to selling their home for 50% of ARV. They tend to be desperate to get a "yes" from a seller and hope that they'll find a sucker of a buyer.
Simply put, people just don't want to put in the work these days to become professionals at their craft. It gives all wholesalers such a bad name, especially the ones who are exceptional at what they do.I've definitely noticed less and less quality come into the wholesaling space. It seems like not only is the poor quality making the good ones look bad, it seems to be chasing those same good ones away. It would probably be worth it for someone to throw a few million into creating and advertising a real class for real quality wholesaling. There's too much BS education out there making too much noise.
- Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2021 · 99 posts · 30 votes1y
@James Guillot lol, yes, many wholesalers get into this business after watching a few videos from some self-proclaimed guru. Most of them have no idea how to properly comp deals. Of course there are no shortage of wholesalers who simply don't know how to run numbers but the core issue, I believe, stems from low quality education in the space.
I see a similar issue with newbie investor borrowers. They watch those same 'gurus' telling them that they can simply finance 100% of the purchase. Yet, when they reach out to a lender and request 100% financing, they are being laughed at most of the time. And then they act surprised why somebody else will give them 100% of the money to purchase their first flip.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 218 posts · 83 votes1y
You’ll not be able to accurately run numbers until you get some skin in the GAME. Real skin, paying taxes, lenders point and penalties, scamming contractor, rehab overrun, roof and basement leaks days before close of escrow. Yeah.. real skin!
Expecting a non-investor to run numbers when most investors can’t run numbers! Ooh wee! (in Snoop's voice)
- Kansas City · Member since 2025 · 25 posts · 9 votes1y
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
- Wholesaler · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 398 posts · 680 votes1y
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
Tell me you used Chat GPT without telling me you used Chat GPT...
- Kansas City · Member since 2025 · 25 posts · 9 votes1y
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
Tell me you used Chat GPT without telling me you used Chat GPT...
Haters gonna hate...
- Wholesaler · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 398 posts · 680 votes1y
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
Tell me you used Chat GPT without telling me you used Chat GPT...
Haters gonna hate...
False. It defeats the purpose of the forums by posting Chat GPT content. If they wanted that type of content on Bigger Pockets then they would just integrate AI. If you’re creating content to get clients, which you are, then that’s a very lazy way to do it.
- Kansas City · Member since 2025 · 25 posts · 9 votes1y
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
Tell me you used Chat GPT without telling me you used Chat GPT...
Haters gonna hate...
False. It defeats the purpose of the forums by posting Chat GPT content. If they wanted that type of content on Bigger Pockets then they would just integrate AI. If you’re creating content to get clients, which you are, then that’s a very lazy way to do it.
This claim is interesting, especially coming from someone who is actively selling an AI lead generation tool. It seems to create a contradiction: on one hand, you're promoting the use of AI for business, but on the other, you're criticizing its use for content creation.
The purpose of a forum like Bigger Pockets is to share valuable information and help others. The source of that information—whether it's from a human or an AI—is less important than its quality and relevance. If the content is helpful, well-researched, and provides real value to the community, does it matter if it was crafted with the assistance of an AI?
In fact, using AI can be a very efficient way to synthesize vast amounts of information and present it in a clear, concise manner. It's not about being lazy; it's about being smart and leveraging the tools available to us to be more productive. Just as we use spreadsheets to manage our finances or software to analyze deals, we can use AI to help us create high-quality content.
The suggestion that Bigger Pockets should just 'integrate AI' is a separate point. Whether they do or not doesn't negate the fact that we, as individuals, can and should use the most effective tools at our disposal to contribute to the community and build our businesses.
Instead of being a 'lazy' way to get clients, using AI is a strategic one. It's about working smarter, not harder, and it's a testament to the power of the technology that you yourself are selling.
- Wholesaler · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 398 posts · 680 votes1y
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
Tell me you used Chat GPT without telling me you used Chat GPT...
Haters gonna hate...
False. It defeats the purpose of the forums by posting Chat GPT content. If they wanted that type of content on Bigger Pockets then they would just integrate AI. If you’re creating content to get clients, which you are, then that’s a very lazy way to do it.
This claim is interesting, especially coming from someone who is actively selling an AI lead generation tool. It seems to create a contradiction: on one hand, you're promoting the use of AI for business, but on the other, you're criticizing its use for content creation.
The purpose of a forum like Bigger Pockets is to share valuable information and help others. The source of that information—whether it's from a human or an AI—is less important than its quality and relevance. If the content is helpful, well-researched, and provides real value to the community, does it matter if it was crafted with the assistance of an AI?
In fact, using AI can be a very efficient way to synthesize vast amounts of information and present it in a clear, concise manner. It's not about being lazy; it's about being smart and leveraging the tools available to us to be more productive. Just as we use spreadsheets to manage our finances or software to analyze deals, we can use AI to help us create high-quality content.
The suggestion that Bigger Pockets should just 'integrate AI' is a separate point. Whether they do or not doesn't negate the fact that we, as individuals, can and should use the most effective tools at our disposal to contribute to the community and build our businesses.
Instead of being a 'lazy' way to get clients, using AI is a strategic one. It's about working smarter, not harder, and it's a testament to the power of the technology that you yourself are selling.
There we go! A human answer. Dylan is a real person.Lol
- Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2020 · 52 posts · 42 votes1y
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
I'll be honest, I considered something along these lines. I think everyone deserves a chance to grow. I think that is a very good way to narrow down who I actually want deals from. I'm not sure why I never did it, but recently I started to. I even sent one wholesaler the link to the calculator I made and use for my first look at a property. He never responded. If it can't pass the calculator, it's not even worth further discussion or due diligence. Nobody panic, it's just a screening tool, not a due diligence replacement. Nothing replaces good due diligence.
- Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2020 · 52 posts · 42 votes1y
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
Tell me you used Chat GPT without telling me you used Chat GPT...
Haters gonna hate...
False. It defeats the purpose of the forums by posting Chat GPT content. If they wanted that type of content on Bigger Pockets then they would just integrate AI. If you’re creating content to get clients, which you are, then that’s a very lazy way to do it.
This claim is interesting, especially coming from someone who is actively selling an AI lead generation tool. It seems to create a contradiction: on one hand, you're promoting the use of AI for business, but on the other, you're criticizing its use for content creation.
The purpose of a forum like Bigger Pockets is to share valuable information and help others. The source of that information—whether it's from a human or an AI—is less important than its quality and relevance. If the content is helpful, well-researched, and provides real value to the community, does it matter if it was crafted with the assistance of an AI?
In fact, using AI can be a very efficient way to synthesize vast amounts of information and present it in a clear, concise manner. It's not about being lazy; it's about being smart and leveraging the tools available to us to be more productive. Just as we use spreadsheets to manage our finances or software to analyze deals, we can use AI to help us create high-quality content.
The suggestion that Bigger Pockets should just 'integrate AI' is a separate point. Whether they do or not doesn't negate the fact that we, as individuals, can and should use the most effective tools at our disposal to contribute to the community and build our businesses.
Instead of being a 'lazy' way to get clients, using AI is a strategic one. It's about working smarter, not harder, and it's a testament to the power of the technology that you yourself are selling.
There we go! A human answer. Dylan is a real person.Lol
I agree with the answer he gave. It definitely felt like the response ChatGPT would give, yet it also made a ton of sense. We should worry less about the mouth and more about the words coming out of it.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Dylan Robinson:
You've hit on a significant and frustrating issue that many experienced investors are seeing. You're right—it's not a new problem, but it does seem to be amplified lately. 📈
This trend is less about a single "guru" and more about the widespread availability of simple wholesaling information. The barrier to entry has never been lower. With countless free online tutorials, real estate podcasts, and social media influencers, people can learn the basics of marketing and finding a motivated seller in a weekend. However, these resources often oversimplify or completely ignore the crucial steps that you've identified:
- Accurately calculating After Repair Value (ARV) based on true comparables.
- Creating a detailed and realistic rehab estimate beyond a simple per-square-foot guess.
- Factoring in all the other costs like closing costs, holding costs, and profit spreads.
This oversimplification leads to a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mentality. New wholesalers believe if they just send out enough deals, someone will eventually bite, even if the numbers are garbage. They don't understand that by sending out bad deals, they're damaging their reputation with the exact people they need to do business with.
So, should you dump them? It depends on your approach.
🤝 Building Relationships vs. Transactional Deals
You have a couple of options:
- Dump and search. You can absolutely start looking for a new crop of wholesalers. To find better ones, look for investors who are active in the market, attend local REIA meetings, and ask other flippers for recommendations. The goal is to find someone who has successfully closed deals and understands the numbers from a buyer's perspective.
- Educate and curate. Since you're already receiving deals from these wholesalers, you can use it as a learning opportunity for them. When a wholesaler sends you a bad deal, reply with a detailed breakdown of why the numbers don't work for you. For example: "The ARV on this property looks closer to $350k based on comps in the immediate area. Also, a full kitchen and two bathroom remodels, plus new flooring, will push the rehab closer to $50k-$60k. When you factor in all the other costs, there's no profit spread left. I'd be interested in future deals if they are closer to a 70% of ARV minus rehab and your fee."
This approach helps to filter out the serious wholesalers from the "clueless" ones. The good ones will appreciate the feedback, learn from it, and send you better deals in the future. The bad ones will simply stop contacting you. You're effectively training them to be a better resource for you.
Ultimately, your strategy should be to build a curated list of reliable wholesalers. It's a key part of your business development. Don't be afraid to cut ties with those who consistently waste your time, but also consider investing a little time in educating those who seem motivated but inexperienced.
Tell me you used Chat GPT without telling me you used Chat GPT...
Haters gonna hate...
False. It defeats the purpose of the forums by posting Chat GPT content. If they wanted that type of content on Bigger Pockets then they would just integrate AI. If you’re creating content to get clients, which you are, then that’s a very lazy way to do it.
This claim is interesting, especially coming from someone who is actively selling an AI lead generation tool. It seems to create a contradiction: on one hand, you're promoting the use of AI for business, but on the other, you're criticizing its use for content creation.
The purpose of a forum like Bigger Pockets is to share valuable information and help others. The source of that information—whether it's from a human or an AI—is less important than its quality and relevance. If the content is helpful, well-researched, and provides real value to the community, does it matter if it was crafted with the assistance of an AI?
In fact, using AI can be a very efficient way to synthesize vast amounts of information and present it in a clear, concise manner. It's not about being lazy; it's about being smart and leveraging the tools available to us to be more productive. Just as we use spreadsheets to manage our finances or software to analyze deals, we can use AI to help us create high-quality content.
The suggestion that Bigger Pockets should just 'integrate AI' is a separate point. Whether they do or not doesn't negate the fact that we, as individuals, can and should use the most effective tools at our disposal to contribute to the community and build our businesses.
Instead of being a 'lazy' way to get clients, using AI is a strategic one. It's about working smarter, not harder, and it's a testament to the power of the technology that you yourself are selling.
actually BP will ban those that are constantly only using chat to write their posts.
- 1yArman AhmedPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2024 · 2k+ posts · 941 votes
Hey James, I’ve definitely seen that happen too—especially with newer wholesalers or those trying to push deals fast. ARVs can get inflated, rehab underestimated, and holding/closing costs overlooked. I’ve found the best approach is either working with wholesalers who provide detailed, realistic comps and line-item rehab estimates, or learning to quickly run your own numbers to double-check before moving forward. At the end of the day, solid due diligence separates profitable deals from the ones that look good on paper but flop in reality.
- Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2020 · 52 posts · 42 votes1y
Quote from @Arman Ahmed:
Hey James, I’ve definitely seen that happen too—especially with newer wholesalers or those trying to push deals fast. ARVs can get inflated, rehab underestimated, and holding/closing costs overlooked. I’ve found the best approach is either working with wholesalers who provide detailed, realistic comps and line-item rehab estimates, or learning to quickly run your own numbers to double-check before moving forward. At the end of the day, solid due diligence separates profitable deals from the ones that look good on paper but flop in reality.
Thank you. I always run my own numbers when presented with a potential deal. I trust almost nobody when they just throw numbers at me, but a lot of the time, they are close or dead on. I'm only expressing concern about wholesalers bringing more and more bad deals recently with rushed, inflated, deflated or missing numbers. I am more than willing to lose some profit for an assignment fee to avoid having to do all of the lead generation, but lately the deals being presented are just plain garbage. I was sent one today where the asking plus assignment fee was 10k less than the ARV, and they didn't even mention the approximate 40k rehab it clearly needed. No consideration for closing, holding, rehab, or sale. It's like they're not even trying anymore.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Bloomfield CT · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 408 votes1y
Wholesalers should not assume hard money costs. There are many who are more than capable of using their own money
- Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2020 · 52 posts · 42 votes1y
Quote from @James McGovern:
Wholesalers should not assume hard money costs. There are many who are more than capable of using their own money
I believe "should not" is the wrong choice of words. If you had said, "don't have to" I would agree with you. It's not something I've see very often, but yes I have seen it and it has been very helpful. If you're capable of paying all cash for a property, that's great! In my experience, the majority of investors prefer to spread that cash out among several properties, not drop it all into one. While hard money isn't good for that, there's a reason there is so much of it around. People use it. If I could find another wholesaler who understood lending in general and calculated that in when negotiating a property, they would immediately become my favorite. If I choose to leverage, it's covered. If I don't, there's more room for profit. There's no downside.
Hard money aside, lending costs money, and it should absolutely be factored in.
- Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 2 votes1y
One of the things people need to understand is who their exit is to. I've seen so many wholesalers that if they were to know how to set the right expectations as to how to get properties on the MLS and understand what novations are, they would realize that some of these properties they can still make a good margin off of, even if it means getting the seller more money. When you can only do off-market wholesale, that's where I've seen wholesalers try to push numbers and then push out bad deals. If you're able to give the seller 2 cash offers, then you provide them with the freedom to pick which route is best for them, instead of just trying to force a deal to make it work
- Flipper/Rehabber · St Petersburg FL · Member since 2025 · 23 posts · 4 votes1y
You don't need an education, certifications, qualifications to wholesale. Industry like that doesn't attract the best talent. Most of them aren't agents with access to MLS to properly run deals. Most of them have never flipped a house so they have no idea the cost of reno and how many things go into it. They've never got a hard money loan and see how costs are associated with that.
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes1y
Because wholesalers are not real estate investors. You can't run accurate numbers if you're not an investor yourself.
- Wholesaler · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 398 posts · 680 votes1y
Quote from @Nick C.:
Because wholesalers are not real estate investors. You can't run accurate numbers if you're not an investor yourself.
I disagree strongly with this and I'm going to assume you haven't wholesaled, correct? I've been part of many 7-figure wholesaling operations working as a partner and marketing director, and while there are not a lot of them, there are several companies operating at a high level. One operation I worked with invested $40k monthly in their marketing and I was responsible for allocating these funds efficiently. Additionally, wholesaling is merely one exit strategy. Honestly, the majority of flippers I work with wholesale plenty. They cannot flip every deal or pass them to an agent because the margins are too thin on a 3% commision.
This type of rhetoric really discourages individuals who may not have the starting capital from a trust fund to jumpstart their rehab or rental investing operation.In short, a very lazy answer Nick.
- Flipper/Rehabber · St Petersburg FL · Member since 2025 · 23 posts · 4 votes1y
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:
Quote from @Nick C.:
Because wholesalers are not real estate investors. You can't run accurate numbers if you're not an investor yourself.
I disagree strongly with this and I'm going to assume you haven't wholesaled, correct? I've been part of many 7-figure wholesaling operations working as a partner and marketing director, and while there are not a lot of them, there are several companies operating at a high level. One operation I worked with invested $40k monthly in their marketing and I was responsible for allocating these funds efficiently. Additionally, wholesaling is merely one exit strategy. Honestly, the majority of flippers I work with wholesale plenty. They cannot flip every deal or pass them to an agent because the margins are too thin on a 3% commision.
This type of rhetoric really discourages individuals who may not have the starting capital from a trust fund to jumpstart their rehab or rental investing operation.In short, a very lazy answer Nick.
I disagree man. Two things, If someone has never flipped a house they do not know how to budget a rehab. To be honest the only deals I've bought from wholesalers are when they mess up the ARV and think its lower than it really is.
And one thing I always go back and forth with wholesalers is, just because you assigned a contract doesn't mean it was a good deal. Just like any industry there's a lot of people flipping houses that do not know what they are doing. People spending 6 months on a house to make 30k 40k 50k. Less than 10k a month before taxes? Not sure how that excites people
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes1y
@Cornelius Garland Your assumption is incorrect. And my comment wasn't meant to discourage. My comment was based on experience. I was wholesaling during the foreclosure crisis, when it was impossible to find a buyer. Around 2009 - 2013, we did a decent volume, maybe 10 - 20 deals/month. Not as large as the big players now, but we did pretty well. Started flipping more in 2014 - 2019 and now focus more on new construction. I've sent out those emails to investors - purchase for $50k, $20k in rehab, rents for $1200/mo. (we didn't bother with ARV back then because there was no retail market). That $20k rehab number was low because I didn't have the experience to know what it really was, and I didn't actually invest in real estate, just worked in the industry.
Wholesaling is a job. A marketing job, as you alluded to above. Those high level operations you speak of are spending $40k in marketing because they're marketers. They market to home sellers, find a deal, and then market that deal to investors.
Now, of course, you can use the money made from your job wholesaling to invest in real estate. But you could just as easily invest money made from any other job.
- 1yJ CastroBusiness MemberLender · Florida · Member since 2025 · 698 posts · 253 votes
Quote from @James Guillot:
Lately, I have been noticing a trend. Wholesalers have been sending me deals with ARVs too high, rehab estimats too low, and they aren't calculating closing costs, holding costs, or profit spreads (let alone extras, like hard money costs).
Obviously, this isn't a new problem, but it's more consistent than I remember. Is there a new "guru" in town teaching bad math? Should I dump these Wholesalers and try to find new ones for my area or is there something else going on?
Unlike a licensed real estate agent, a wholesaler generally does not need formal training to start. This low barrier to entry means many beginners enter the market with insufficient skills in financial analysis. Inexperienced wholesalers often fail to account for all potential costs, including holding costs and unexpected repair expenses, cutting into their already thin profit margins.
Experienced investors know which wholesalers consistently produce accurate deals and which ones don't. A wholesaler who repeatedly makes bad offers will quickly find it difficult to find buyers. As an experienced investor it should be your priority and your job to do your own due diligence.
When wholesalers miscalculate and are forced to back out of a deal, the seller is left in a worse position than before. This practice is a major reason why many people, including real estate professionals, view some wholesalers as unethical (unfortunately).
- Investor · Twin Falls, ID · Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 9 votes1y
@Cornelius Garland I would agree with you and I am always learning and growing for sure. I am trying to get my feet in the water for the wholesaling or creative finance deal aspect of it and will admit I struggle with the numbers and or who pays what in a deal structure. I have one possible deal right now and I would love to chat and or confirm if I have something here. If that's possible then I'll look forward to hearing from you!
Have a great day
- Investor · Twin Falls, ID · Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 9 votes1y
@James Guillot ok, I'm definitely willing to try and get it right. In fact, I desperately need to ask my full time job and my wife's full time job leave us in the hole each week for paydays and I need the practice and or incited to know how to structure deals properly and do not only wholesale but seller finance options and how to utilize a seller's equity when the property is 100% paid off.
If that's something you could help me with then I'm game to learn. I do have some knowledge and I'm almost there to have a complete picture but getting it right and having proof of concept to finish the deal is of course the goal but not at the expense of financial loss for me or the person I'm trying to wholesale to.
Thank you and I'll look forward to your reply.
- Investor · Twin Falls, ID · Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 9 votes1y
@Gladimir Lobo that's what I am trying to avoid and do this with accurate math and integrity because it's apparent that when someone doesn't run the numbers well and or they send out a possible deal and leave our pertinent info then their reputation is usually exploited and flagged with notes from others to avoid said person and or stay away and do not do business with them.
Point is that I have always loved Brandon's approach and getting it right is super important to me. My issue is not having that person to bounce numbers off of or to confirm not just the market listed price but the recently sold properties as I don't have access to the MLS for comps....
I've seen Brandon's videos for comps and how to use Zillow and Trulia and or redfin to ball park that property and go for the lower of the offered price and then attempt the 70% offer minus the arv after that and go from there. Anyways I'm appreciate and thankful for any help or advice and perhaps I might hear back from you on asking questions for a potential deal I have to present right now. If it's a nothing burger then cool at least I'll be sure afterwards.
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