anyone have a trustworthy wholesaler they've bought multiple properties from in the DFW area that they'd recommend? Or have any ideas on how to find one?
@Jonathan Alexander I'm amused at your use of the word "reliable". It can mean so many different things. By reliable, are you saying someone who has 100 deals in inventory at any given time? If that's what you mean, I'll tell you that anyone in DFW who raises their hand and says they have that is blowing smoke up some not to be mentioned portion of your anatomy. Deals in DFW are simply too difficult to come by, and there are too many investors looking for those deals. No one has an inventory, unless they are sitting on a property they are going to execute a strategy on themselves.
On the other hand, if you mean someone trustworthy, who will not inflate ARV's or manipulate comps, then I'll raise my hand. I think my history of posts, including the numerous times I have busted several local wholesaling companies about those practices, speak for themselves.
@Hattie Dizmond Thanks for responding Hattie. You're right I shouldn't have used such an ambiguous word. What I should've posted was more along the lines of what you said with regard to not inflating ARV's, manipulating comps etc...
I'm looking to buy another rental property to hold that will cash flow. A few of the problems I'm obviously running into are the hot market and amount of inventory that I'm aware of - I say that I'm aware of because I have limited time to research the internet for deals and don't have MLS access - thus why i was looking for a wholesaler who might already have put in the leg work for deals but wouldn't screw me over in the process YET still give themselves a fair share in the deal.
I've read a number of your posts and appreciate your candor and how often you call people out on the forums for BS "deals."
SO, if you find something you don't want to buy yourself, please feel free to keep me in mind and send me the info. Thanks again for responding.
Hey Jonathan, what is your criteria? What part of the DFW do you prefer?
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@Hattie Dizmond & @Jonathan Alexander I was actually about to create the same post except I was going to have it focus on finding "reputable" wholesalers that are participating BP members and that focus their business in the Dallas area.
@Anthony Aguillard Can you tell us more about your work.
I am personally looking at getting started in SFH and small multi family. Wouldn't mind finding myself a deal on a new home too. I have some real estate agents that I know and work with, but I am looking for a more specialized wholesaler that I can acquire fix&flips or fix&rents from at the right price.
There are a lot of good (and bad) wholesalers in DFW. Regardless of what kind you run into, you need to know the market and be able to figure out comps and repairs for yourself. When I advertise a wholesale deal, I use repair/ARV numbers that I think are reasonable, but maybe your contractor is cheaper, or your scope of work would be different, or whatever.
I see a lot of wholesaler bashing out there because new investors think they should be able to get deals at 60-70% of ARV and they think everything is overpriced. Unfortunately that just isn't a reality in this market. I just sold a property wholesale at >85% of ARV, and I didn't even make much on the deal. The market is very tight right now.
That said, there are some out there who purposefully inflate ARV or understate repairs, so be extra careful.
Thanks for the post @Andrew Herrig , I understand from what I have heard on the Podcasts that there are a number of different "quality" wholesalers in the market place. I appreciate you sharing your philosophy, I would like to learn more about the Dallas area market and the type of deals you are seeing. PMed you...
I tried to PM you @Andrew Herrig , but I got an error.
I am sorry to say this but selling a house at 85% of its ARV is not a good wholesaler, its finding a sucker to buy your deal. There still are deals at 70%ARV out there, you just have to look for them yourself. If you look at carrying cost, closing cost when you buy and sell, and commissions( if you are not an agent) you would lose money buying at 85% or make a minimal amount at best. Not worth the risk!!! The market is hot right now but that doesn't mean people should just buy crazy. You could make more money as an agent in this transaction then the rehabber.
Just because some people are doing it doesn't mean you should. I know everyone heard it from their parents but if everyone else was jumping off a bridge, would you?
That being said, there are a couple of decent wholesalers in the DFW area. Not all of there deals are home runs but they still leave enough meat on the bone for others to make money. People that are tying up these houses at 80%ARV and trying to sell them( and most times can not) without the ability to close it what is causing more problems in this market then it being hot.
Sorry for my rant but I hate seeing a lot of new wholesalers getting bad advise. I have even helped a couple out in the area and always offer to help when reached out to.
Just stumbled across this post. Did you ever find the house/deal you were looking for?
Hate the game, don't hate the player.
I'm a wholesaler, and at the end of the day, I don't set the price for my properties. The market sets the price. I can advertise a house at whatever price I want, but I can't sell it for more than people are wiling to pay. Are there bad wholesalers who inflate ARVs and underestimate repairs? Yes. But even they can't sell their houses for more than someone is willing to pay. If I actually advertised a property for sale to my list at 70% ARV, it would get bid up to 85% ARV without me having to do anything.
Investors love the free market when they can find deals, but when they can't, then complain about others "overpaying." (And I freely admit to that myself.) But the market is simply the market. Whatever a house sells for on a given day is exactly what that house is worth on that day. It may not be what you're willing to pay, but that's not the wholesaler's fault. Right now in Dallas (depending on the neighborhood) wholesale deals are going for 80-85% ARV minus repairs, on average. A great rental property can go as high as 85-90% ARV. There's no reason a wholesaler shouldn't be selling at market price in a competitive market.
Most of the buyers I see paying these prices aren't suckers. They usually fall into two categories: 1) professional flippers who are competing fiercely for inventory and are willing to take the risk on a minimal profit in order to keep their crews busy; and 2) investors of all experience levels who are buying rental property to hold long term and are happy with conservative 5-7% returns on their investments.
Are there also some newbie buyers out there not running their numbers correctly? Of course, but that doesn't mean they should get a discount for being inexperienced. I try to avoid those people anyway because I'm not confident they'll perform. My goal in wholesaling a property is to find the sweet spot combining the best price I can get with my confidence in the buyer's ability to close, but it's not up to me to question their strategy. If the price works for them, it works for me.
I do have a reliable buyer who buys multiple properties from me, and of course I give him a discount. If I can wholesale a property with one phone call to someone I'm certain will close, I'll happy sell for less than if I had to advertise the property for two weeks, schedule showings, and vet new buyers. But if you want those discounts, you have to build a relationship with a wholesaler. And yes, you can still find properties at 70% ARV, but you have to find those yourself. Unfortunately if you're just part of the crowd relying on wholesalers to bring you deals, then you'll have to be willing to pay market price, whatever that is. If you have cash and a track record of closing, you'll find deals start to come your way.
Originally posted by @Chad Benedict :
Chad, I am not just another investor crying about not getting deals, I actually closed on 8 houses in February at 68%ARV. I am also not trying to argue your logic for selling at the price you do. You are correct that the market determine the price. But call a spade a spade. If you are selling at 85-90%ARV you are not a wholesaler you are a retailer. I can buy a house everyday if I wanted to pay retail. What myself and it seems others have an issue with is where the value add is. Why should the rehabber make 6-8k on a flip with all the risk and a wholesaler make 10-15k with none?
@Chance Housos That's why I'm wholesaling and not rehabbing! ;-)
If you got 8 houses at 68% ARV, you should've wholesaled them, you would've made just as much money in a fraction of the time as flipping with almost no risk, as you said. I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's just what the market is and there's no reason for a wholesaler to give away money when he doesn't have to. As for the value add question, I feel your frustration, but again, it's not the wholesaler's fault some investors are wiling to pay near retail for properties. If those investors didn't believe there was still value, then they wouldn't be paying that much. Keep in mind making $10-15K on a wholesale is a home run. The average wholesale profit in Dallas is far, far less than that, and even those deals are getting harder to come by.
@Chad Benedict I do not blame the wholesaler for getting as much as they can get, were are all in this crazy market together. I do see your point as to your value add for those investors. My frustration is not at the price wholesalers sell the property for, its the ones that have no ability to close if they can not sell and give the owners false hope on selling then dump the contract when they can not close. It tends to hurt all of our business when things like that happen.
There can be a win,win win, situation with wholesalers/buyers/homeowners. I am willing to buy for around 76% of the ARV. There are some wholesalers out there who can sell at that level. I would be willing to work with you if you had a deal in that arena. But actually knowing the cost of a closing and selling or refinancing, there is no way I could do more unless the price point was well over 200K.
If you are interested in homes with ARV less than $100k as rentals, let me know, these are the types of homes I rehab and wholesale. Thanks.
@Andrew Herrig , please PM me your details, I got your request but I can't seem to get a PM over to you. keep getting errors,
@Duane Kidman , I am interested in hearing more about properties at that price point, please send me your info and lets talk.
@Duane Kidman sounds like we should chat. If you have some time this week ping me and we can talk
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