I am tired of wholesalers that exaggerate ARV in their listings. Living in South Florida, I feel like pretty much all of them put unrealistic ARV in their emails as there is no accountability. Should I not expect any ethics in this business? Where are the good wholesalers in South Florida??
I'm interested in thoughts on how to deal with this? Should I just ignore the wholesalers and find other channels?
Agree with you 100%
We haven't done business together as of yet, I do know your pain, ( As I have dealt with plenty of them myself), but to dismiss all of us would be a mistake.
My only experience with a wholesaler turned out he didn't have ability to deliver title, every other thing he said to me was an outright lie. I'd proceed with caution when dealing with these guys.
most people have an unrealistic expectation of value, unless you have put your money where your mouth is, and done deals to the end user, what wholesalers should do, is just get real estate licenses, and sell these properties legit, make a commission and move on, they cant be making a ton, if they have to leave enough meat on the bone for a flipper anyway.
Sorry about your headaches. We are not all the same.
The good wholesalers often wont have some email going out to hundreds of people. Instead they are selling to the same 10 or 20 buyers every time. No need for some email blast since they know who the buyer is already for any given property.
Well I must say first and foremost the thing you need to change is your attitude. Because a piss poor attitude will never go far in any walk of life. Personally I'm sick of people using blogs and forums to vent their problems and complaints to the world asking for pity and approval. But that's just me and I don't want to add fuel to the fire I just want an awareness of the ignorance in your comment. Condemning a whole group of people based upon a few you have had bad experiences on is not only ignorant but its discriminatory and puts a bad name out there for the people who are doing good and legitimate business in the world. If you are having bad luck with this I suggest a change in perception... like say perhaps instead of only focusing upon the bad part of what these wholesalers have done, use it as a learning experience on what you now know you have to look for in the future dealings with wholesalers, because like everyone else they are trying to maximize their profits and sometimes there is unethical behavior and stretching the truth. That is why it is "your" job as an investor to do your due diligence before investing in anything. Also another learning experience you get from the bad ones is that there is one less person you have to work with, because now you have learned from your experience. I understand frustration as we have all been through it in all walks of life, but all I ask is instead of using this platform to bash people who work hard everyday to provide for their families in all walks of life, but to come and ask the plentiful knowledge of how to deal better and even people if you have a nice positive attitude, will be more then happy to work with you in the future and share their already established resources with you and eliminate the headache. There is a learning curve in everything and integrity is shown in your words and actions so do choose them wisely! This comes not as an attack but hopefully a reminder that not all people are bad and if you keep to it and be persistent...you will realize the bad ones just made finding the good ones make you that much more appreciative. I wish you the best of luck and I hope you can keep your head up and push through the hard times. There is a lot of good knowledge and resources on this website. I believe in you!
I agree 100% with @Phil Scheiris
Sorry to hear that you're not having much success. I myself am new to wholesaling (haven't even done my 1st deal yet, still learning). I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing before I close my first deal to avoid getting a bad wrap. Hope things get better for you.
I agree with Phil you should use forums to motivate not to sound like a downer this is about us helping each other not down the next person on blaming something How a wholesaler did you it will be ok trust me move on that should not stop you from your achievements of Rei good luck David Coleman
But but but....
Other People's Money?!?!? No Money Down!!??!1!
Perhaps half the deals you have seen from "Wholesalers" are not from wholesalers at all they are from newbie wannabes who haven't done a deal and probably won't sell the one you are looking at.
Everyone is new once and often new investors do this because they are set up with unrealistic expectations from gurus who promise that it is easy.
Sure sounds like the 2006 and 2007 with everyone getting in with no money, like the movie
"The Big Short". It was a good time to be in cash in 2008. JP RTR
I am going to take the opposite view as you .. I frankly probably buy more property as a principal than most on BP I would say I am probably one of the top ten.. unless you know anyone who buys 20 to 40 properties per month . And I mean buys them and closes on them.
As such I get a constant barrage of yellow letters .. add me to your buyers list etc etc. I will call one about every 10 days waste of TIME one they don't answer the phone then when they do they give the same canned pitch amature hour.. and if by chance they get a deal half the time its buggered up in some manner.
this is not an industry its the wild west and half of it is illegal to boot they are selling real estate without a license there is no defense for most of these folks who think that this way of transacting real estate is honorable or even legal.
And on top of that they screw people left and right I have seen it first hand.. You have these guys puffing everything and do you know how many newbies they screw over .. its a ton.. they ruin these folks by selling them over inflated properties with under estimated rehabs.. and the poor wanna bee newbie flipper investor buys it and promptly losses their life savings listening to one of these unlicensed crap wholesalers who could give a crap if the other person lost their ***..
So that's one side of it.. granted there are good wholesalers I fund a bunch of deals from them but there are a huge swath that are terrible.. and are charlatans and financial sociopaths just looking to feather their own nest at any cost.. I have been doing this 40 years I have seen it all..
So to defend what you perceive as some righteous industry is totally off base.. because its not an industry its a bunch of unlicensed very green and inexperienced people out there.
Granted it gives the good ones a bad name.. but I can tell you most if not all the top wholesalers HAVE brokers licenses or they close on their deals.. its not just throw it up on the wall and see if some idiot bites on it.
So that's a counter point to your post. And I am sure there is a happy medium :)
@Jay Hinrichs I'm looking to do wholesaling both legally and ethically. Seeing as I haven't even closed on my first deal what advice could you give me to get started the right way without breaking any laws and/or violating other investors' trust?
@Phil Scheiris I honestly find that you are drawing far fetched conclusions in your post.
Attitude -- It’s a big leap to say my attitude is “piss poor”. Calling a spade a spade is not poor attitude. Recommended approach would be not draw personality conclusions and stick to the topic.
Use of blogs/forums to vent their problems -- I don’t know what your experiences has been in the past with forums. In this specific case, I shared a problem and asked for suggestions, not pity. These types of forums are built to share challenges and seek recommendations.
Condemning a whole group -- Certainly not doing that, in fact I have a couple of very good friends that are great wholesalers and work really hard. But then there are a significant number of other ones that are short sighted, trying to make a quick buck at any cost and giving the broader group a bad name. Maybe the gurus are the ones that are polluting the community with $995 courses for bird dogs and wholesalers.
Ignore the bad wholesalers -- How exactly to do that? Generally the wholesalers seem to forward deals from other people, so it’s almost impossible for me to figure out who really has the deal!!
I think a more helpful approach would be to offer solutions instead of suggesting to ignore the issue and reality.
I have been coming across the same experience "so far" with South Florida wholesalers. I have seen over-inflated ARV's and underestimated rehab costs.
I would be willing to entertain any "ethical and knowledgeable" wholesalers in the South Florida area (mainly for Broward properties). So if you are one of those feel free to contact me.
Like anything in life, you have to go through the weeds to get to the flowers. Unfortunately, there are uneducated (and unethical) wholesalers who do these things. The choice is yours but I wouldn't disregard all wholesalers just because of a few bad ones.
I never intended it to be fuel to the fire as I stated. Just an awareness. There was no need for rebuttle and no need to throw egos around at who's better and smarter or who's opinion matters most. All I was trying to say is that to condemn people is wrong. As for amateur hour as you speak I feel a little more compassion is due on your part as everyone starts off as an amateur. Do you so soon forget in your success what life was like getting to it. You to Mr Hinrichs were at one point an amateur in this just as we all were. And whether you choose to admit it or not, had people not gone out of their way to help you, despite your ignorance you would not be where you are today. Again all I ask is don't spite people because of your own perception it doesn't make you better then them no matter how much money or success you have. God forbid one day you should need help and people have your mentality on helping others. Again I'm not looking to argue I'm just saying don't spread your ignorance and discourage others on here. Tell it to your wives or friends or like minded individuals but don't kill others dreams because of your perception. At the end it only reflects who you are not the people your condeming. Again I wish you all the best in all your business deals and life as a whole.
I haven't had one "deal" offered that was a deal. I have found many operating illegally that are brokering without a license. Watch the marketplace. There are lots of people posting properties for sale in FL without any ownership interest. Unfortunately, everyone without money tends to gravitate to this avenue believing they can make a lot of money starting with -0-. I have had to tell quite a few people to quit contacting me with "deals". I am not saying there aren't any good ones but to date my experience has not been positive.
@Phil Scheiris the big difference Phil is that at 18 I went out studied got my real estate license so I was legal to transaction business. I had a supervising Broker and a formal business setting to learn my craft.. . learned the laws instead of learning how to do this reading cereal box's.. and practicing on good innocent Sellers and innocent buyers who if they had proper representation would not get screwed over and waste time by wholesalers who are ignorant and just starting out and learning how to do an industry...
For whatever reason we see people thinking that they need to start wholesaling so the can earn money to buy and hold. we see that mantra repeated ... over and over again.
when in fact wholesaling is an advanced strategy and one that for all these folks reading this stuff 95% will FAIL 5% will go on to close deals and move up the chain and figure out after time to start a business put the cash together so they can actually buy stuff.. or get licensed so they don't get shut down and work in the grey areas of RE....
When in fact there is more people that think they want or need to do this than there are deals in most markets.. and that's buy a long shot.... there are only so many FSBO's out there the rest of real estate is transacted in the RE INDUSTRY by licensed individuals who do this for a living and a career.
So if people want in the industry get in the industry.... if you want to buy and sell real estate then get your money together and go forth and do that.. but to do it with no money no credit and just trying to sucker people into crappy deals I see NO honor in that.. and I see it as a huge time suck and failure for the vast majority of people who are influenced by this romantic notion that this is the way to make big money.
Sure some do it NO doubt.. but then again some become sports stars and some make it big in what ever business they choose.. the cream rises to the top.. but I submit the successful wholesaler who actually makes big money is far and few between and would succeed at almost any business the tried..