Results of 1st visit to Courthouse for Probate Leads

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Results of 1st visit to Courthouse for Probate Leads

Nemi W.
Real Estate Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2009 · 94 posts · 124 votes

I'm excited about taking the first step and figured I'd share!!

Upon walking in and asking for open probate files, I expected a confused look, a "well you can't have them because...", or a "be more specific". Interestingly, I didn't expect "why?".

I skirted around this question without saying "I'm look for homes to buy" : )

Here are some other things I didn't expect:

1. Having to pay $1/per pg for a Preliminary Report, before seeing the actual files.
2. Being told I have to give a 24-48 hr notice in writing before seeing some of the actual files.
3. Being told there are over 3,000 open files!

Here's what I managed to accomplish:

1. Identified 36 specific cases on the Prel Rep that I wanted to further review (Had $$ in the Estimated Value of Estate column).
2. Was able to review the actual files of 5 of those.
3. Identified 4 decent leads.
4. Submitted the above referenced notice in writing for the other 31.
5. Became quite familiar with about 10 Forms/Documents found in the files.

What I still need to know for the next visit and to streamline the process from the court visit to finding a motivated seller:

1. If there's no Real Property listed under "Nature of Assets" nor calculated into the "Estimated Estate Value", could there still be real property owned?
2. Is the Attorney for Petitioner the same as the Attorney most speak of when suggesting contacting/not contacting the Attorney?
3. I was given the Report for files filed in November. Do I want to bother with these? Is it too early being that the death occured around 2 months ago?

I spent 3 hrs there today to come up with 4 cases where real property is owned. I plan on going back Monday to get more leads; I expect time spent/lead will be significantly shorter. Then I'll have to begin sending letters or calling.

Hopefully this will help someone on the fence about visiting the courthouse. If anyone would like to chime in on what I still have to learn, feel free to do so. I would love to hear your thoughts!

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Michael G.
Wholesaler · Bay Shore, NY · Member since 2009 · 359 posts · 199 votes
15y

I wish my county was like Edwards. My county makes you come to the courthouse. They says its not available online. (although looking at their technology infrastructure I could probably access it if I worked for the county. Its not that unsophisticated. They just dont want the public accessing it I guess.) Whats nice is that you can do wildcard searches on properties. For instance Last name starts with A. Date of death range 12/01/2010 - 1/3/2011. I just go from A-Z every 30 days. I make a note of where I left off last so I'm not wasting my time doing redundant searches.They charge 25 cents a page for printouts. Ive learned to look for a) the ones that dont look like husband and wife where the survivor is still living at the property and make sure none of the admistrators are living at the property. b) To look instantly for the ones that have real estate listed as assets c) The ones that don't have a lot of people listed as heirs. To answer your questions.

1. If there's no Real Property listed under "Nature of Assets" I dont bother with it. IMHO it seems like a waste of time vs the records that have property listed as assets.

2. I've never contatcted the the Attorney for Petitioner only because I've never had a need. I only contact the person who the Letters of Administration have been issued to.

3. I've been actively pursuing probate for about a year. Ive found that if I wait to long (typically past 45 days), the administrators instanly go with what they know which is to list the property with an agent. I search for deaths within the last 30 - 45 days. When I have an address I'm intrested in, I will google it to determine if its been listed already. There have been a few properties I've come across that really get my attention (1-10 miles away) and I drive by to see if its my kind of property (ugly, not well maintained or needs work) and when I pull up and there is a realtor sign in yard. Or I call an executor and they say those properties have been sold.(ouch). BTW - I found that calling after sending a letter works well. That way its not quite a cold call

I'm in NY. I've tried this in a county in PA and you cant do any searches without a name. In another county in NY they list the deaths in the local law journal so you may want to try that but that did cost me money so you have to weigh if it will work for you or if it even exists where you are.

Just keep in mind that more is better. The response rate (at least for me) is not that high. The ones that do respond most frequently Ive found are condo owners (which I dont prefer), Also there is a challenge with getting to that 65-70 % of ARV sweetspot. My huge selling point is I buy cash, AS IS, in 10-14 days with no inspections, no contingencies. That seems to get their attention.

A bit wordy but I hope this helps a bit.

5Reply
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  • Morris Lucas
    Member since 2010 · 16 posts · 124 votes
    15y

    Nice post; let us know how the second visit goes..by the way, what state is this?

    0Reply
  • Nemi W.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2009 · 94 posts · 124 votes
    15y

    Thanks Morris. It's FL

    0Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    I'm able to get all the information I need without going to the courthouse, thankfully. All 3 counties I work have their info on line. Have you checked your county's web site? Alternately, you could check to see if there is a legal paper in your area that posts the "notice to creditors" required by law.

    And yes, Attorney for the petitioner is the correct attorney, but in my experience, it is not worth the time to contact them unless you're trying to build a relationship with them. Contact the PR directly.

    I spend about 20 minutes a day collecting the info I need. On Friday's I spend about an extra 30 minutes to click mail merge and stuff envelopes (unless the grandkids happen to be here! :lol: ). I WOULD go to the courthouse if I had to, because probates are a great lead source.

    Stay persistent and consistent and streamline your system as you go. Commit to a minimum of six months before even considering discouragement. Just today I got a call from a letter sent 3 months ago.

    4Reply
  • Morris Lucas
    Member since 2010 · 16 posts · 124 votes
    15y

    Edward;

    Do you have any luck getting absentee owner leads from your county website or just probate leads? Also, i'm not sure what you mean by mail merge, is that related to your marketing to the sellers? Do you get a good rate of return on mailing your letters overall? I'm trying to decide whether to go mail or signs, as i'm a little low on capital to do both.

    0Reply
  • Jimmy C.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    15y

    How long after death should we wait to mail or call?

    0Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    @Morris- Yes, I get absentee owners from the county websites also. Some counties are easier (less time consuming) than others. By mail merge I just mean that at the end of the week it takes only a few minutes to turn the mailing list I built from the probate leads into letters ready to mail. I consistently get a 3 to 4% return on these, but it's the quality of the leads that amazes me.

    @Jimmy- I work from the notice to creditor, which is filed with no real rhyme or reason in relation to the death. I try to get my marketing into the decision maker's hands as soon as possible from that notice.

    1Reply
  • Nemi W.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2009 · 94 posts · 124 votes
    15y

    @Edward, I was hoping you'd reply, as you seem quite knowledgeable in this area.

    I can see legal notices in the paper and some info online as well...just not whether they have real property, which is why I go to the courthouse. Can you get this from your newspaper or online? Do you mail to the PR without knowing this? Sounds like you have a very efficient system. Having a good system should be every investor's goal. 3%-4% response rate is good. What is your conversion rate?

    Thanks for the encouragement!

    @Jimmy, I've read 4 months after the decedent's passing and also as soon as probate opens.

    1Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Once I have the decedents name, I cross check it with the county appraisers web site to see if there is real property. If yes, I mail, if no I delete.

    3Reply
  • Jimmy C.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    15y

    Awesome Edward. Also how old is the info when you Get it? Could someone get the info quicker than you? Are the major lead brokers selling their leads after you have mailed?

    We are weighing options this week of sending someone in daily vs getting an email or disk.

    0Reply
  • Nemi W.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2009 · 94 posts · 124 votes
    15y

    Gotcha. You might be saving me many trips. Thx!

    0Reply
  • Michael G.
    Wholesaler · Bay Shore, NY · Member since 2009 · 359 posts · 199 votes
    15y

    I wish my county was like Edwards. My county makes you come to the courthouse. They says its not available online. (although looking at their technology infrastructure I could probably access it if I worked for the county. Its not that unsophisticated. They just dont want the public accessing it I guess.) Whats nice is that you can do wildcard searches on properties. For instance Last name starts with A. Date of death range 12/01/2010 - 1/3/2011. I just go from A-Z every 30 days. I make a note of where I left off last so I'm not wasting my time doing redundant searches.They charge 25 cents a page for printouts. Ive learned to look for a) the ones that dont look like husband and wife where the survivor is still living at the property and make sure none of the admistrators are living at the property. b) To look instantly for the ones that have real estate listed as assets c) The ones that don't have a lot of people listed as heirs. To answer your questions.

    1. If there's no Real Property listed under "Nature of Assets" I dont bother with it. IMHO it seems like a waste of time vs the records that have property listed as assets.

    2. I've never contatcted the the Attorney for Petitioner only because I've never had a need. I only contact the person who the Letters of Administration have been issued to.

    3. I've been actively pursuing probate for about a year. Ive found that if I wait to long (typically past 45 days), the administrators instanly go with what they know which is to list the property with an agent. I search for deaths within the last 30 - 45 days. When I have an address I'm intrested in, I will google it to determine if its been listed already. There have been a few properties I've come across that really get my attention (1-10 miles away) and I drive by to see if its my kind of property (ugly, not well maintained or needs work) and when I pull up and there is a realtor sign in yard. Or I call an executor and they say those properties have been sold.(ouch). BTW - I found that calling after sending a letter works well. That way its not quite a cold call

    I'm in NY. I've tried this in a county in PA and you cant do any searches without a name. In another county in NY they list the deaths in the local law journal so you may want to try that but that did cost me money so you have to weigh if it will work for you or if it even exists where you are.

    Just keep in mind that more is better. The response rate (at least for me) is not that high. The ones that do respond most frequently Ive found are condo owners (which I dont prefer), Also there is a challenge with getting to that 65-70 % of ARV sweetspot. My huge selling point is I buy cash, AS IS, in 10-14 days with no inspections, no contingencies. That seems to get their attention.

    A bit wordy but I hope this helps a bit.

    5Reply
  • Brian Colbert
    Contractor · Dana Point, CA · Member since 2010 · 44 posts · 9 votes
    15y

    I don't like to jump into someones else thread but it is on these lines, so please excuse me. When you guys are researching these probate cases do you approach the ones under a trust?

    1Reply
  • Michael G.
    Wholesaler · Bay Shore, NY · Member since 2009 · 359 posts · 199 votes
    15y

    I dont. In fact I rarely find trusts when I'm searching the records. They are few and far between.

    0Reply
  • Nemi W.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2009 · 94 posts · 124 votes
    15y

    That does help, Michael. Thx!

    0Reply
  • Brian Colbert
    Contractor · Dana Point, CA · Member since 2010 · 44 posts · 9 votes
    15y

    I was wondering if anyone in the probate arena would consider buying a property in a senior living area? Is real estate real estate or is this too limited?

    0Reply
  • Michael G.
    Wholesaler · Bay Shore, NY · Member since 2009 · 359 posts · 199 votes
    15y

    I wouldn't buy a property in a senior living area. It doesn't meet my criteria for a probate property. Namely one that needs repairs and lots of maintenance. Thats were typically the motivation comes from. The seller would have to do significant repairs to sell retail. With senior living the property is usually very well maintained. I would doubt if it would need more than paint and carpet and minor repairs. I might consider it if the discount was too steep to possibly turn down but generally I would stay away from it.

    0Reply
  • Sharon Vornholt
    Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    15y

    I have been buying probate property for about 3 years now, and it has been my most profitable source of leads. Absentee owners are also very good for me.

    I work in Louisville, KY and the probates are published in the local newspaper. Also, they are published at the same time; on a Friday, on or before the 15th of the month.

    For instance, last month it was Friday the 10th. (The next Friday was the 17th which was after the 15th). This month they will be published this week which will be Friday January 14th (once agian on a Friday on or before the 15th of the month). They will typically be found in the classified section somewhere.

    I found out when they are published by calling the courthouse. I would be really surprised if they are not published in every city. The folks at my courthouse told me they were required to do this by law so that creditors would know when someone had died. They also told me it costs them tens of thousands of dollars every month to publish them in the news paper, so they are hoping to have the information on line in 2011 or 2012 which would be much easier for them and for me.

    I would encourage everyone to call their probate court for this information.

    Once I have the list, I then check the PVA to see if there is property. Where I live, you can actually look up the wills online if you know the decendent's name. There really is no need to do this and it's very time consuming. I hope this is helpful.

    0Reply
  • Jimmy C.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    15y

    Cool Sharon. Thanks for sharing.

    My two counties of interest told me the info is not available unless I come in. There is no charge as it is free to the public. I can bring my laptop, but cant use their power source. And if I need to print anything they want $1 per page.

    Now I have to make the time to go down there and try it out. One county has a very nice clerk, she seemed helpful. I am planning to go there first, since my ignorance may be better tolerated.

    0Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Here you go Jimmy, just cuz we're colleagues. Pinellas County is one of your counties isn't it? Took me about 10 minutes to find this, but check this link http://www.review.net/legal-notices/2011/01

    Click on Pinellas County and open the PDF. Type notice to creditors into the Adobe search box and go one by one to get your info. I get the deceased's and the executor's, then cross match with the tax appraisal district to find real property. When you get a system down, it goes fast.

    4Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Oh, BTW, if you look over on the right, you'll see a calendar. You should be able to go back and get the notices for a month prior. :D

    0Reply
  • Jimmy C.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    15y

    Edward you are the man!

    You probably already knew this, but thought I would point out the obvious

    1Reply
  • Audrey C.
    Real Estate Investor · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2010 · 35 posts · 5 votes
    15y

    Hi everyone,

    Sorry if I'm bumping anyone's post, but I'm still trying to navigate around the site.

    I really want to share/give my latest update since I'm also new to the Investing world. I have my mailbox address set up; put AD on CL and received response; have mailed to (only a) few foreclosure list and I went to the Courthouse last week looking at Probate deals on 1/5/11 and in all of Seminole County found it hard to believe that 7 people died since then. Anyway, I didn't go too far back because I was on my lunch hour.

    I only found 3 names that had some type of information, but only mailed to 1 person who had property. Alas, the PR who is also wife of deceased) called this evening and will be looking at the property tomorrow.

    Any pointers on what I need to look for? Very nervous now....

    0Reply
  • Nemi W.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2009 · 94 posts · 124 votes
    15y

    Hi Audrey,

    Looks like we're neighbors...I'm in Orange Cnty.

    Regarding probate: Actually, finding 3 of 7 who have real property isn't bad, and getting a response from 1 mailing is just awesome!

    I'm fairly new to RE investing too, but 1 pointer I would give is to do more listening than talking.

    Hope this helps and good luck! Let us know how things go.

    0Reply
  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    15y

    Something I learned doing a few probate deals. Buy the debt of the smallest creditor. On the right estate you can make a couple bucks whether you get the house or not. Most ambulance bills are 250 to 350. When you own the debt you become a creditor and then are on the inside and can pull credit reports to gain better understanding as to the financial situation of the estate. The key with probates in being the turle. Slow and methodical approaches will gain the most ROI

    2Reply
  • Audrey C.
    Real Estate Investor · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2010 · 35 posts · 5 votes
    15y

    @ invmatchmaker - Thank you, and l will update once I get back. Welcome to investing as well.

    @ Jeff - Thanks for the feedback.

    0Reply
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