What to Bring to Seller Appointment - Wholesale Real Estate

132 Replies

@John what shall I take if I am a fraud and a scammer ? I want to be successful AND stay out of jail...... you sound experienced.

@Mary Mitchell Wholesalers buy "as is" ...They get it under contract for what the property is worth in its current condition. Wholesalers say, "here is what I am able to buy it for in order to make a profit."  Home sellers know you're going to profit from the deal and most of the time are happy that you are. Why? Because getting rid of their headache property fast is more important than what you may profit.  Again, people who have been ripped off don't give you a hug at closing, text you on holidays and/or send gift cards which have been my personal experience. 

@Mary Mitchell

Depends on the need of my mother. If she has to sell the house quickly and doesn’t have time for realtors and doesn’t want a lot of people running through her house she may want to sell at a discount or when she dies I might want to sell at a discount. But not everyone can walk on water like you and John.

@John Thedford

So how about a POF letter you say you are a hard money lender can you put that in writing?

@John BULL! If it were illegal an ENTIRE INDUSTRY wouldn’t exist to exploit the opportunities. Maybe Jesus will step down and let you be God for awhile.

@Mary Mitchell there’s a trashed property on the local mls here 58 days still here another 108!days still here another ... but the realtors don’t mind blowing blues sky up skirts oh it’s gonna sell just leave it up there meanwhile the seller is stuck can’t get one with their lives they have an albatross and a kindly smooth talking realtor to help them keep it!

Originally posted by @Javonte Hardiman :

@Mary Mitchell Wholesalers buy "as is" ...They get it under contract for what the property is worth in its current condition. Wholesalers say, "here is what I am able to buy it for in order to make a profit."  Home sellers know you're going to profit from the deal and most of the time are happy that you are. Why? Because getting rid of their headache property fast is more important than what you may profit.  Again, people who have been ripped off don't give you a hug at closing, text you on holidays and/or send gift cards which have been my personal experience. 

Wholesalers don't buy houses... unless I am in the dark on what a wholesaler does. Hugs and gift cards aside, what those who are against wholesalers are saying is this...

Let's say you have a house that will sell to a flipper or brrr rental owner for $100k. A wholesaler offers $75k and gets the contract. They then turn around and sell it for that $100k that the flipper or brrrr buyer would have paid. Had the seller simply dumped the house on CL or FB it would have sold for $100k, right? Had they listed with an agent for $100k it would have sold for a $3-6k fee. Before you mention showings and open houses, there is no need for an open house and a wholesaler has to show a house as well (I have looked at a LOT of wholesale deals, try and sell me one where I can't look at it). Trust me, EVERY SINGLE investor buying from wholesalers checks the MLS.

I am not against wholesaling, when done honest. Buy there are a LOT of shady wholesalers who do everything they can to "get a deal" no matter who they step on to get it.

@John Thedford

Hard money lenders want points, they charge higher interest than my bank more than double in most cases him e hard money lenders are scammers and frauds right?

Originally posted by @John Thedford :

See 475.42 and 475.43. Taking advice from fraud and scammers can get you in trouble with the state. FL laws make it illegal to market properties you do not own. Taking advice from fraud and scammer unlicensed broker cheerleaders can get you in trouble. I report every unlicensed broker and several have gotten cease and desist letters.  Unlicensed brokers are a PUBLIC NUISANCE! 

Also if you need an attorney here is one for you:
https://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/regulatory/u...

Maybe lydia can start her own website called unlicensed brokers for hire.  Then she can be the head cheerleader LOL! She can teach you how to deceive sellers to believe you are a buyer and not a fraud.

This is typical real estate agent BS, especially the jerk attitude. This "gentleman" is just upset that his profession is going the way of the dinosaur and he becomes more irrelevant by the day. 

Originally posted by @Doug Orchard :

@John Thedford

Hard money lenders want points, they charge higher interest than my bank more than double in most cases him e hard money lenders are scammers and frauds rig

A HML... haha one would think someone living in such a large glass house would not be casting stones with so much aggression.

@Javonte Hardiman 😆👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

@Jon Allen what if the seller still owes 98% of the value? No equity for a realto to suck off the deal so he’s out right? A guy who with an option to purchase who sells his option to another can let they fellow move on with his/her life. Hmmm I know that’s a scammer

@Jon Allen hahahah that’s only being right but you know those rightouse realtors are there to protect mom and dad from evil profit seekers.

Wow, I've never seen this much butthurt in a single thread before lol

@Brian Pulaski Wholesalers get property under contract in "as is" condition...And again, sellers are 100% aware the wholesaler is going to make some kind of profit......Just as a seller could put a property on CL to get more, China manufactures probably could get more for the Iphones that Apple pay them to make, it's called wholesale for a reason.... That example you gave was pointless. Again, every single person on this thread has wholesaled at least 100 times throughout the course of their life. That's the equivalent of saying, "Hey, why does a promoter pay a celebrity 50k to come to a venue and do a show when the celebrity can just book the venue themselves and make 80k....Your analogies are terrible.....Lol... So lets go over some facts in case you all forgot that quick.

1. Wholesalers get property under contract in as is condition and leave enough spread for them to profit(basic fourth grade business principle)

2. Those 30k spreads are not as common as 3-7k profit spreads...Read that again...

3. Sellers are 100% aware that you'll make a profit and are aware of their other options(Read that again)

4. Many wholesalers ask sellers, "Hey, have you thought about just listing this property with a realtor?" Which many still insist on working with the wholesaler for their own reasons.

5. If you are not in business to help people while also making a profit, you shouldn't be in business at all.

6. If you never leave a spread for you to profit in your business, you shouldn't be in business at all. Read that again.

7. Wholesalers solve problems, save credit scores and get rid of heavy burdens.

8. Wholesalers pay taxes

9. You mentioned there are some shady wholesalers out there. That was another pointless comment of yours. Newsflash: WE KNOW! There are shady people in EVERY industry...From Real estate to politics..smh...Again, Terrible...

10.. I have received hugs, kisses and gift cards for my service.

@John Thedford you are not brokering as long as you are on the P & S contract and deposit earnest money.

Originally posted by @Javonte Hardiman :

@Brian Pulaski Wholesalers get property under contract in "as is" condition...And again, sellers are 100% aware the wholesaler is going to make some kind of profit......Just as a seller could put a property on CL to get more, China manufactures probably could get more for the Iphones that Apple pay them to make, it's called wholesale for a reason.... That example you gave was pointless. Again, every single person on this thread has wholesaled at least 100 times throughout the course of their life. That's the equivalent of saying, "Hey, why does a promoter pay a celebrity 50k to come to a venue and do a show when the celebrity can just book the venue themselves and make 80k....Your analogies are terrible.....Lol... So lets go over some facts in case you all forgot that quick.

1. Wholesalers get property under contract in as is condition and leave enough spread for them to profit(basic fourth grade business principle)

2. Those 30k spreads are not as common as 3-7k profit spreads...Read that again...

3. Sellers are 100% aware that you'll make a profit and are aware of their other options(Read that again)

4. Many wholesalers ask sellers, "Hey, have you thought about just listing this property with a realtor?" Which many still insist on working with the wholesaler for their own reasons.

5. If you are not in business to help people while also making a profit, you shouldn't be in business at all.

6. If you never leave a spread for you to profit in your business, you shouldn't be in business at all. Read that again.

7. Wholesalers solve problems, save credit scores and get rid of heavy burdens.

8. Wholesalers pay taxes

9. You mentioned there are some shady wholesalers out there. That was another pointless comment of yours. Newsflash: WE KNOW! There are shady people in EVERY industry...From Real estate to politics..smh...Again, Terrible...

10.. I have received hugs, kisses and gift cards for my service.

Those same flippers and brrrr buyers get houses under contract "as is", No?

You say sellers are 100% aware that the wholesaler isn't the buyer and they are making a profit? If this is how you wholesale, that's the right way to do it. I have probably spoken with 15-20 wholesalers in my area and not yet have I found one or discussed a deal where the seller knew what the wholesaler was doing. 

My example was simply a way to spell out why those against wholesaling see them as sucking the money from the seller. Not sure why it was considered pointless from your POV, as it is a scenario that happens often. Also I see a lot of deals that are much larger spreads than a few thousand dollars.

I just bought one from a wholesaler who made $24,000 on a sub $100k house, so I'm not against wholesaling. With that said had the seller listed it FSBO for free on CL for $20k more, I would have bought it as I did, and they would have made $20k more. They chose the wholesaler and in the end all parties got what they wanted.

You can run your business how you want and it sounds like you are doing it right, kudos to that. I'm just here to offer some perspective without the name calling and arguing that usually ensues.

Originally posted by @Lydia T. :

@Charlie MacPherson I have a question about your current scenario with the seller you mentioned who almost got screwed. First of all, I am aware of the major wholesaler you referred to and I am not a fan of theirs at all. They are a perfect example of taking advantage of a seller.

Here is my question to you, as an agent, if you feel the house is worth $335,000 (you said thats what it would probably sell for) then why not list it at $335,000 if thats what the value truly is? It seems that the fundamental argument against wholesalers is the misrepresentation of value for personal gain. What no one has ever addressed is what is the difference between a wholesaler doing it vs a flipper vs a realtor. In your case, not trying to attack you just trying to give a real life example, it seems that same argument could be made. You are listing a property for more than what you think its worth, and you stand to benefit if someone comes along and makes a full price offer. In your same example if it had been an investor who made that same offer to that seller and reaped that 100k+ profit when he flipped the house, would you criticize that investor as harshly as the wholesaler or would they get a congratulatory high five for getting such a great deal?

There are shady characters in every aspect of real estate, there is an investor here who preys on people in foreclosure. He approaches them 3 days before the auction and basically offers them 5k and a moving truck for their homes regardless of how much equity they have. He then fixes the houses and sells them for a huge profit or seller finances them for even more profit. There are no threads condemning investors for this behavior, no one is calling them scammers and frauds even though the only difference is that they are buying the property themselves and reaping the profit. IMO if its wrong then its wrong. A behavior cannot be wrong when one person does it and perfectly fine when someone else does it.

I havent heard anyone advocating for sellers saying that everyone selling a house should put it on MLS and try to sell for the highest price possible. Experienced investors know that its next to impossible to find profitable deals on MLS (perfect example, your 335k house thats listed for 350k) and that its better to market directly to sellers.

Just trying to understand why wholesalers get so vilified. Understandably there are some shady characters out there and I dont condone what they are doing because its wrong, but it seems like throwing out the baby with the bath water to say that an entire real estate strategy (a strategy that the founders of BP have talked about, given advice how to do and actually done it themselves) is unethical and should be made illegal.

 I recommended the price of $350,000 because that's what the comps support.  I did recommend that the sellers work on fixing the three items that need attention, but they don't have a lot of available cash right now.  We are offering the buyer a $3,000 credit toward the cost of repair or filling in the pool.

Listing it at $335K would potentially leave money on the table, and that's not in the best interest of my seller.

The big difference between a wholesaler and a rehabber is that a rehabber actually adds value.  They buy properties at the current market value, complete the necessary repairs, and sell the improved property for a profit.  Everybody wins.  The initial seller gets rid of a problem property.  The neighborhood eyesore gets fixed and so the neighborhood is improved.  The repaired home gets reassessed at a higher value so the town reaps more in tax revenue.  The next buyer gets into a home that needs no work.  And the rehabber earns a living.  

Contrast that to Mr. Caveman wholesaler.  They offered my clients $228K on a home that's worth $350K.  The only one that wins is Mr. Caveman.  My clients are deceived about the true value of their home.  They lose $100K in equity as they are growing their new family.  They end up with a much smaller / worse condition home for their toddler and new baby who arrives in a few weeks.  They take a lasting hit to their quality of life.

The rehabber adds value while the wholesaler steals it.

The difference between a Realtor and a wholesaler - aside of being in a completely different line of work - is that being licensed by the state, I would be subject to severe penalties if I screwed a client the way Mr. Caveman tried to do.  I could easily face fines, license suspension and/or license revocation.  If I'm lucky, I'd only lose my livelihood.  But I'd probably also be sued under the Mass Consumer Protection Act (Chapter 93A) which provides for up to triple damages.  If the wholesaler wasn't a business entity, Chapter 93A does not apply.

Finally, I always advocate putting properties on MLS. The reason for that is that this is the way to expose a listing to the greatest number of potential buyers. Our MLS syndicates listings to Zillow, Trulia, Realtor, Home, Move, national newspapers, international MLS and hundreds of websites. Not to mention that every brokerage with a property search function on their website gets their feed from - you guessed it - MLS.

For any given property, regardless of condition or location, there is one person who will pay the highest price. Where MLS will reach millions of people, where a wholesaler might have a few hundred on their mailing list.

As to someone showing up on the doorstep 3 days prior to foreclosure, I've never seen or heard of that happening, but I'd condemn that practice if I came across it.  Generally, people in foreclosure have almost no equity.  If they did, they would be better off selling the home and taking whatever equity they had and finding a rental, rather than losing the home to foreclosure and ruining their credit.

I hope that clarifies things.

@Lydia T. you should have explained to your seller that dissipation of assets is illegal and not paid a penny lower than your offer.

@Charlie MacPherson . The wholesale asignment fee that rehabers pay is basically the marketing the wholesaler has done to find the property! Most rehabers would rather spend their time on the property not marketing. It is a lot of work to find these deals. I know plenty of rehabbers that are happy to pay the assignment fees.

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