Landlord Insurance by sq. ft. or by appraised value

Landlord Insurance by sq. ft. or by appraised value

Real Estate Investor · La Jolla, CA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 4 votes

I am in the process of obtaining landlord insurance for 2 properties:

1. 2300 sq. ft. home with 3 car garage and in-ground pool worth ~ 560K

2. 504 sq. ft. condo in La La Jolla worth ~ 285K 

I am getting suggestions on coverage by property value but I think it should be square feet because the condo is worth about 285K and 5 miles away would be worth half that. I will call construction companies but I think they quote by square foot.

I am amazed at the lack of information available for average cost per square foot to rebuild condo just interior and house everything.

Best ballpark I can get is $75 - $125 / ft for condo and $200 - $250 /ft for house.

Also insurance agencies I have dealt with tend to jack up the personal property limits for example $20K personal property for a 1 br 1ba 504 sq. ft. condo - give me a break.

Here is what I will go with unless someone has better recommendation:

-------

Condo 504 sq ft HOA covers all external :

504 * $100 ~ $50K Property + $6K Personal (appliances mainly)

-------

House 2300 * $225 ~ $518K Property + $10K Personal (appliances mainly)

Also what if it cost less than the insured amount does the insurer get to keep the extra?

Any feedback appreciated.  

Carl

0Reply
25 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Insurance companies have formulas for calculating replacement value based on a handful of simple variables. Square footage, numbers of bed/bath, construction types, etc. It gets them a replacement value with mostly public data and possibly a brief inspection. It gets them close enough for them to feel comfortable insuring your property. Why don't you give an agent a call and get an estimated replacement value and cost?
See this reply in the discussion

9 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 146 posts · 35 votes
    9y
    Are you dealing with regular insurance agency or rei?
  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Insurance companies have formulas for calculating replacement value based on a handful of simple variables. Square footage, numbers of bed/bath, construction types, etc. It gets them a replacement value with mostly public data and possibly a brief inspection. It gets them close enough for them to feel comfortable insuring your property. Why don't you give an agent a call and get an estimated replacement value and cost?
  • Kevin FoxPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 635 votes
    9y

    Hey @Carl Graff

    I'm certainly no insurance-wiz, but my understanding is similair to yours in that most will use cost to rebuild as the basis for your premium.

    My guess as to why you're having trouble finding info online is that I think it's nearly impossible to give a blanket assumption to be used on a $/sqft basis nationally, and even locally I think you'll find challenges (the only difference location makes in the cost-based evaluation is the price of labor, for the most part, and does not address the issue of failing to account for different quality finishings/condition/upgrades). 

    Using the SFR as an example, I could likely get a 2300 SqFt building with low quality finishes, basic architectural design, etc finished for under $400K ($175/sqft)

    However, if you had an ultra- high-end, luxury home before; you likely won't be very happy with what that $400k ultimately yields. In cases like La Jolla where finishes can be as extravagant as the owner is capable of dreaming up; your $/sqft could be as high as $425/sqft(~$1M/2300 square feet).  

    So, it is always better to find a quality insurance agent you can turn to on an ongoing basis and leave that guess work to the pros.

    If you haven't found one already, @Parker Cox is who you'll want to call. He's my guy for everything even slightly related to REI insurances and has never let me down. I'm sure he'd be happy to help.

    Either way, best of luck!

  • Real Estate Investor · La Jolla, CA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    I think this article sums it up nicely:

    http://www.insure.com/home-insurance/home-replacem...

    It  emphasizes that the current market value of your home (say Zillow estimate) is a very poor way to estimate how much it will cost to rebuild in case of a fire or other loss. Yet a couple of the insurers I contacted based my coverage solely as a percentage of the current market value.

    What I am going to do going forward is ask them how they calculate the coverage I need and if they don't know exactly or don't want to let me know I will just move on to another agency. So far I think I the most knowledgeable are independent agencies that are not locked into some large cooperate mandated formula and they take more care to match you with "Just Right" coverage.

  • Independent Insurance Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 138 posts · 56 votes
    9y

    @Carl Graff  The article you posted sums up the general determination process for coverage amount used (as far as I know) by all admitted carriers in CA.  I am an independent agent so I can't speak for the direct writers of the world (StateFarm, Allstate, Farmers...etc), but that is the process I am familiar with.  

    As an agent focused on REI, I understand your concerns, almost all investors have a certain sensitivity to these values.

    The biggest thing you need to think about which you haven't yet mentioned is called "co-insurance" which is your obligation (and possible penalty if you fail) to insure your property within a reasonable realm of likely replacement cost.  

    Co-insurances is between 80-100% requirement usually with a 10-20% penalty in the event of a failure to comply.  

    In the example of a 90% co-insurance requirement with a 10% penalty (in my experience the most common), here is the math.  

    You have a house insured for 355k.  It burns down, a claims adjuster comes out, brings a GC, examines the inspection reports...etc and then determines that your house will cost 400k to rebuild.  

    You will have not met your co-insurance requirement 400k-355k= 45k > 10% of 400k.  Your insurance company will then not disperse funds until you have provided 40k (your 10% penalty as an added deductible) + your deductible.  Then, they will only provide the amount your insured for -- 355K to rebuild.  

    In total you will have to pay 45k to get the 355k to rebuild your house--

    (10% penalty) 40k + 1k (deductible) + 4k (remaining difference balance) to activate a 355k dispersal = 400k balance for construction.  

    now, what is the cost difference between 355k and 400k of coverage from the off?  likely less than $10/mo.  

    Does that mean any one should be grossly over covered out of a fear of co-insurance penalties? No.  

    What happens if you are insured for 410k and the bid/value comes back as 400k. That is a determination that varies between carriers and adjusters. That is not (as far as I know) paid out as a bonus check at the end and here is why. The carrier is paying the actual cost to rebuild. As you know in the REI world, there is almost never a perfect estimation of costs associated with rebuilding a property.

    So, your replacement cost coverage is an initial estimate, when the house burns you get a second estimate and as construction occurs, costs can change.  Unfortunately, it is impossible to make a perfect estimation for even the most gifted investor or contractor or carrier.  The goal is to air on the side of too much than too little.  

    So what happens if you are underinsured, but within 10% of the replacement cost so you avoid the coinsurance penalty?  The insurance company will pay the full amount required to build your home.  

    Ultimately, as a homeowner you view this as a "micro" event--your property destroyed or the 10k too much coverage on your policy.  The insurance company views your "micro" event from a "macro" perspective.  Meaning, for every homeowner who is under insured by 5% (remember, that valuation is subjectively determined and subject to change depending on a contractor's skill...etc) there will be one who is 5% over insured (again subjective and subject to non-robotic human craftsman, and variables).

    But, that is why carriers use the 3rd party rating systems mentioned in your posted article.  It gives a standardized method.  As independent agents, we do not have the authority in most cases to write policies that do not comply with those valuations--carriers will simply refuse.  

    It is not worth it to a carrier (or agent) to potentially open up a legal battle down the line where an insured says "Mr. Judge, if I had known that 400k was only $10/mo more than 355k, I would have been an idiot not to take it.  My agent and carrier were negligent, they let me under insure my house and didn't explain the consequences to me." 

    Overall, I think you are right on on your personal property amounts.  I think your condo is underinsured--the less the square footage, typically the higher price per square ft in general because more of the house is bathroom kitchen walls...etc rather than open air.  

    The house seems ok, but my guess is that depending on the quality of the finishes and property, you might have a carrier come back and want to bump it closer to between 600-650k in accordance to one of the rating systems in your article.  

    You can look into using a "non-admitted carrier" to get around the rating systems--you will have a lot more freedom with coverage amounts, but the co-insurance requirements are still in play and typically much more stringent.  

    But, I would bet a quote at 518k (or even 450k) would be basically equivalent in price if not possibly higher than your hypothetical 625k with an admitted carrier.  

    So, I understand the frustration and lack of information available in regards to these factors.  But, it is better to air on the side of enough than not enough if you have the choice.  

    Best,

    Parker 

  • Real Estate Investor · La Jolla, CA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Thanks for informing me about co-insurance and yes it does frighten me that the estimate of an insurance adjuster can really ruin a person - can't the owner get a quote from a reputable builder and use that? Or does it depend on who you get your insurance through whether they only use an adjuster (or worse just their own adjusters) estimate or an actual quote from a construction company to determine replacement cost.

    Also this statement unless I am misinterpreting it:

    --------

    But, I would bet a quote at 518k (or even 450k) would be basically equivalent in price if not possibly higher than your hypothetical 625k with an admitted carrier.  

    -------

    Seems to imply that buying higher coverage means paying less premiums.

  • Real Estate Investor · La Jolla, CA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    In this scenario you state below who does the 45K get paid to - the insurance agency?

    You will have not met your co-insurance requirement 400k-355k= 45k > 10% of 400k. Your insurance company will then not disperse funds until you have provided 40k (your 10% penalty as an added deductible) + your deductible. Then, they will only provide the amount your insured for -- 355K to rebuild.

    In total you will have to pay 45k to get the 355k to rebuild your house--

  • Independent Insurance Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 138 posts · 56 votes
    9y

    @Carl Graff sorry for the delayed response--

    comment 1.  Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for how rebuilding estimates are determined and companies are not regulated to a single style.  

    Options I know of--1. claims adjuster plus insured appointed contractor--walk house together assessing damage and creating quote.

    2. claims adjuster and insurance company relationship contractor--same process

    I am sure there are a lot more ways it could be done, unfortunately, it is a process independent agents are not privy to.  But, I do know that appeals for pricing and quotes are possible (in most cases at least).  

    comment 2. the higher coverage is not cheaper, but an admitted carrier typically uses a rating system more premium efficient for insureds.  

    comment 3, no it is not paid to the insurance company but it is treated as a deductible ie you need to put it towards the payment of your rehab/reconstruction, just like an auto policy that requires you pay the body shop your deductible as a precursor or co-cursor of insurance funds dispersal

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    WOW - - guess I got a real bargain with Farmers.  Had an internal damage only incident in an upper unit and the water damaged the lower unit.  Less the deductible, I received $95k for the rehab and that exceeded the invoices by about 6k which came back to me.  No out of pocket whatsoever.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.