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All Forum Posts by: Alice Horn

Alice Horn has started 7 posts and replied 439 times.

Post: Kissimmee - Honest and Reliable Cleaner Recommendations Needed

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266
Quote from @Alex Loginov:

Hi everyone,

We're hoping to find a trustworthy and dependable cleaner in the Kissimmee area. Our previous team, found through Turno, became unavailable due to their growing business, and our current cleaner hasn't been meeting our expectations.

We're hoping fellow hosts in this forum might have recommendations for cleaners who consistently provide excellent service and clear communication. We'd be extremely grateful for any suggestions you can offer!

Thank you so much,
Alex

We have seen a growing trend of folks who were previously self-managing who have tired of seeing cleaners come and go. Sadly, it's the nature of the business. If you decide you are ready to rely on a professional approach to management (with a stable cleaning team at all times) we are happy to help!

Post: Looking for an investment property/airbnb near disney.

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266

Hi there!

You and your family are very typical of most investors who purchase in the Disney/Orlando market. As you may know, the communities surrounding Disney offer a wide range of family-friendly STR vacation communities with tons of amenities like water slides, lazy rivers, walking trails and more which appeal to typical tourists visiting our area. Championsgate, Solara, Windsor at Westside, Storey Lake and Windsor Hills are just a few of the better know communities. The key is identifying the unique priorities, first for you and your family - then figuring out how each home will perform financially.

As property managers living and working just a few minutes from Disney, we're very familiar with the day-to-day experience in each community. We're also happy to share revenue/occupancy reports on any home you're interested in purchasing, so you can make an informed decision before you buy. Enjoy the search, and feel free to reach out anytime!

Post: Building a Team

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266

Speaking as a vacation rental manager, we absolutely appreciate investors who build a team from the start. The education process starts at the very beginning. If you, as an investor don't fully understand what it takes to manage a specific type of home, you'll make unwise purchasing decisions. We sometimes "inherit" buyers from realtors who have created highly unrealistic expectations on performance, ease of self-managing and other aspects of owning the home. Then we need to do a lot of education and damage control.

Needless to say, there are many ethical and investor-friendly realtors out there (especially here on BP :). But some are not. By having a second pair of eyes throughout the buying and selection process, you'll end up with better metrics and more realistic expectations. Also, you won't be scrambling at closing time to identify and hire your most important ongoing partner.

As far as the other partners, I agree with @Michael Smythe's list above. Here in Orlando a very important partner (instead of a contractor) may be a decorator who understands the unique theming and decor needs in our market. We help with that piece, as well.

Lastly, in my opinion if someone is "too busy to respond"....it's not a good sign for the ongoing relationship! 

Post: Do Not Buy A Condo In Florida!

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266

OK...but not all condos are in high rise, waterfront properties. And not all Floridians are scam artists lol. 

Here in Orlando, we definitely advise investors to proceed with caution, simply because smaller condos compete directly with hotel rooms. Pool townhomes are usually a better option. BUT, we do see some notable exceptions with condos that perform very well. This can be because of a strategic location in Orlando or in the resort community, exceptional decor and other factors. Bottom line, really do your homework before you buy an Orlando condo (but don't necessarily write off all condos in our market).

Post: STR (AirBnb/VRBO) Orlando—First Time Investor

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266

@Ankur Yadav this thread started three years ago and the market has certainly evolved since then. Happy to chat with you from the property management perspective. We manage about 50 homes in the top communities and I can share the pros and cons of each one, both from the investor and the guest perspective. 

Post: The 25% property management fee was killing my STR profits

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:

Oh sweet summer child.

You are me, 5 years ago. I owned properties in Orlando and Southern Utah and was managing them myself. I decided hey, why not do this for other people too?

I'm at a place now where I have people and systems to make it rewarding, but it was extremely difficult to get there. Scaling in this business is extremely difficult and stressful as you balance that line of bringing on more properties so you can afford to hire more people while already being overwhelmed by the properties you currently have. Constant 80 hour weeks, late nights, and stress and distractions that massively affects family time. You can do it for sure, but it's not going to be anything like managing your one property.

And you've chosen probably the most difficult market in the country to do this in.

Yes 25% was WAY high in this market. Typical PM rates in this market are 12-18%, usually more toward the lower end of that. That's assuming full service. If you're only handling the guests/maintenance/cleaning and not the listings/marketing then significantly lower. There is unlimited competition here that drives rates down to probably the lowest in the country. And if you are handling the bookings/marketing, get ready for constant calls from the owner that over leveraged themselves thinking this is a cash flow market when, at current prices/rates it is not, unless they invest significant capital into theming.

It's great that you've found a handyman/cleaner you trust. How large are their teams? Can they handle 20 houses? Can they handle you texting them "I NEED YOU AT THIS PROPERTY RIGHT NOW!" 6 times on some days? In the middle of the night?

The typical way things go here is you have a great cleaner/handyman that does good work for a couple houses. Then as you scale up they get overwhelmed and stressed and either start charging a lot more, drop you entirely, or (most commonly) the quality of their work degrades substantially. You may think you'll just hire more but the reality is the good ones are kind of unicorns, and you're going to go through a lot that don't do good work or don't report things to you that they should. The reality you'll eventually learn is that you'll need to hire someone to check on their work. How do you pay for that? It's not worth it to most people to drive across town 6 times a day for $25 per check. If you pay them closer to $100, that might be your entire commission for that turn, before you've even factored in the substantial other costs that are going to come with scaling.

It's possible the charges they were drumming up are ghost charges, but unlikely. Is your property in one of the resorts (Champions Gate, Storey Lake, etc) or off in a private neigbhorhood? If it's in a private neighborhood then maintenance can be lower, but the problem is few of those properties do enough gross revenue to make them management targets. The property really needs to be doing $60k+ in gross revenue in this market to make it worth your time if you're only charging 10-15% on it. Otherwise it is probably going to be a money loser, or making so little money that it's not worth the time unless you are rent shifting, which is evil but is how the large PM companies manage to make these properties work.

Most of those higher producing properties are in the resorts. Those homes are EXTREMELY high maintenance homes. The highest in the country, probably. I own some there and own some in Southern Utah and an average home in my Champions Gate portfolio has more maintenance every two weeks than the Southern Utah properties have in a year. It's the perfect storm of low end houses (they look nice, but they are all builder grade stuff where they are throwing these homes up by the thousands every year), high occupancy with most stays having a high percentage of young wild children, and tired parents after a long day in the parks that are too wiped to police their kids properly. Trust me man, you are going to see things. Lol.  And a lot of them are going to include things like arcade machines and theaters which will constantly have issues and are difficult to service.

Do you have the proper licenses to manage other people's properties in Florida? Here are the Florida statutes. You're going to need to read them all: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm

Do you need a real estate brokers license? That is a hotly debated topic in Florida. Florida won't tell you. They'll just hand you that link. If you PM me I can give you my interpretation of it, but that isn't legal advice. You'll need to get actual legal advice on it and the first two lawyers I hired had conflicting/opposite interpretations.

Have you shopped for business liability insurance yet? Go ahead and give a couple a call and see how fast they hang up on you when you tell them you're managing other people's short term rentals. And if they don't hang up on you, and try to sell you a policy, make sure you read it and find the part where it excludes short term rentals. Trust me, it's in there. There is only one nationwide company left that will do it, and they don't cover pools while most of the homes you're going to be managing will likely have a pool in this market. You're going to need to find someone local that will write a policy for you. But it's going to have to be expensive enough to make it worth their time to create that policy, which is kind of a catch-22 when you don't yet have enough houses to cover and exceed that cost and actually make money for yourself.

You can do it for sure. Boutique smaller PM companies are without a doubt the best option for owners right now and many owners are learning that the hard way after having bad experiences with Executive Villas and the like.  You can be that boutique PM. But it is difficult to get there. I remember thinking "I do this for myself and it's not that bad, how hard can it be to do it for a few other people too?". The answer was a LOT harder, lol.

This. Every word is true. And yet…this crazy business has brought our family closer, we have a trusted group of employees who are proud to work for us (and we pay them benefits) and we keep on reminding ourselves that our guests are making lifelong memories when they stay in our homes. That part is pretty cool.

It is never easy, and perhaps we are masochists. But cheers to us boutique PMs!

Post: A Realtor who wants to invest

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266

Hello @Antoinette Kelly! If you would like to chat about STR's in the Orlando area, get an understanding of the various communities where they are located, learn about performance potential - feel free to reach out!

Post: Hello BiggerPockets! New PRO here

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266

Welcome! We are STR property managers here in Orlando. Let me know if you would ever like to connect!

Post: The 25% property management fee was killing my STR profits

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266

@Luis Guerra the first step in starting any business is research and asking questions. I applaud you for doing that. You will find the property management/cohosting/cleaning business in Orlando is extremely competitive, and scaling your business will be tough once you need additional staff and are juggling more homes. I encourage you to do a Google search/competitive analysis to learn what others charge LOCALLY (commission and fees) before you make a decision. 25% is extremely high for the Orlando market. You will find many PM's who charge significantly less, and you will need to figure what your competitive advantage is. Best of luck!

Post: Self manage or hire property management, that is the question?

Alice Horn
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Kissimmee, FL
  • Posts 445
  • Votes 266
Quote from @JD Martin:

Well the good news is that there are a boatload of PMs in Orlando. The bad news is that a lot of them suck. I have a house there and we've cycled through a few different ones. 

@Alice Horn is a good resource for this; I've spoken to her over the phone before and she's very knowledgeable and personable. 

Thanks for the kind words @JD Martin ! Juliette feel free to reach out anytime and I can help you evaluate the various options!