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All Forum Posts by: Andrew A.

Andrew A. has started 7 posts and replied 58 times.

Post: 2017 Cleveland Duplex Expenses Exposed

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68

@Avi Garg Awesome.  Thanks so much for your response!  It's always good to compare and contrast numbers.  Did you contest the taxes via online?  I really should do this as well as my neighbors are paying substantially less.  I wish I did this the moment I bought the duplex..lesson learned.

Post: 2017 Cleveland Duplex Expenses Exposed

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68

I wanted to share my annual expenses because I had to do a lot of guesstimates before I bought my duplex.  I swear when I asked some investors their expenses they acted like they had amnesia.   Since I have over a year history with my duplex in Cleveland (and before I get amnesia lol), I wanted to share some numbers.

These are averages for my Cleveland Duplex in 2017.  Expenses for your property may vary.  The duplex has 4 occupants and is ~4000 sq ft.  

MONTHLY EXPENSES

Taxes: $208

Taxes are hiiiigh...and my property isn't even in the heights or soccer mom burbs. I've seen some mediocre homes that have annual taxes of $6000 +. These taxes can surpass some HOA fees!

Gas: $140

Brrrrrr...You better believe it gets cold here in Cleveland!  And it stays cold for a long time.  My duplex has hot water radiators.  Also my duplex is gigantic (4000 sq. ft).  Gas expense is a big deal in the midwest.  I remember my California days when my gas bill was negligible.. like $10-15.  

Sewer and Storm Drain: $80

In Cleveland they itemize separately Sewer and Storm Drain. To be honest, I think it's because the city is having to fix a lot of the archaic sewer drains. I always see the city crew working on the streets and replacing the old system, digging to China and back.

Water: $60

Water and Sewer is separate but you dial the same number to contact them. 

Insurance:  $120

Gives us that peace of mind.

Lawn-care: $35

I pay my lawn guy $30 dollars per cut and he does a really good job.  Pretty grid lines and clean edges.  Your frequency may vary from mine and typically start from April/May to November/December.  

Just a quick post for someone who might be doing the calculations on their deal in Cleveland.  It's just a ballpark of what your Cleveland Duplex expenses could look like.  The bigger pockets calculators goes more in depth with cap ex., vacancy etc.  I highly recommend it!

Let me know if you have any questions.

If you have a duplex, share your numbers and other miscellaneous expenses!  Do you think my numbers are wonky?

Thanks,

Andrew

Post: I Moved to Cleveland to Invest. Is Out of State Investing Better?

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68

@Account Closed I coined this term!  lol.  Keep in mind I don't see these moves as being permanent but rather like establishing stations or hubs in investment markets of interest for 1 to 2 years.  I do foresee myself having properties in a few states in the future.  And as you all mentioned about digital nomads and the younger generation, I do feel there is this trend towards minimalism and being hyper mobile. 

Out of State Investing

Double taxation in residence state and investment state on rental income and flips?

Congrats!  Which neighborhood did you buy in?  

Post: I Moved to Cleveland to Invest. Is Out of State Investing Better?

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68

Over a year ago, I was living in San Diego, California thinking about my next move to earn "passive income" with.  I threw a dart at a map.  Just kidding!   After much thought and research (about 3 months of contemplation) , I chose Cleveland.  I actually decided to take a field trip to Cleveland to test the waters and see a few properties prior to making the move.  A few days in an AirBnb in Ohio City, and 10 showings later, I decided to make the jump.  This post is not a discussion of what market is better to invest in but rather, should you move to the market you want to invest in.  Oftentimes the city you want to invest in, is not where you currently live and if it is for you...congratulations you're in a great position.  But for the rest of us we will need to answer this question:

Should I move to the city I Invest in or Invest from Out-of State?

There are many factors to consider and it's different for every individual but here was my rationale:

Do you know people you can trust in the investment city or foster a team there?

If you have relatives, friends and/or colleagues in the investment city that can provide insight and help, that gives you some advantage.  They may have recommendations to agents they've used in the past and/or contractors.  They can also provide some local knowledge.  When I did my field trip to Cleveland, I found a realtor that gave me an extensive tour of the west side through some of the keystone neighborhoods.  He and his team served as the "eye" for my first duplex.  It was a Foreclosure, and as you know those get picked up pretty fast and usually ends up in the "Multiple Best and Final Offer".  A little bit of luck and a lot of legwork I landed my first foreclosure property.  My first question was "Is it move in ready" because I wanted to live in one unit while renting out the other.  I wanted to learn the ropes.  I wanted to "study abroad."  I booked my flight and had my belongings shipped from California to Ohio.  

Short Term or Long Term Stay?

I am not planning to call Cleveland my Forever Home.  I looked at it  like a "study abroad" program to get my hands dirty and see it with my naked eyes.  I'm more of a hands on person and as a creative individual, I wanted to get my hands dirty and do some cool work as well (see attached fireplace on a house I just sold).  I find gratification from making tangible THINGS.  I'm a maker.  I'm here to get to know the players, build a team, perhaps network with quality folks and know the good spots that locals know about.  Learn.  Intimate knowledge gives you the edge.  Many of my friends in Cali never experienced a basement nor the implications of snow...ahem.

Can you handle living in the Investment City?

More crime, more grime, scraping ice off your car every morning and blasting the defroster, slipping and sliding in your 2 wheel drive, these are the realities of a lot of the midwest cities that are "good cashflow".  Now I know why sunshine states are more expensive.  If these things affect your quality of life then it's something you will need to consider.  If you are investing in class C blue collar areas and want to live in the Mulitfamily that you buy, your experience may be quite different than living in a Class B or A.  The tenant culture may be different than what you are accustomed to.  However in terms of interest and activities, I think you can find your niche and people in most cities that you choose to invest in.  

Commitments

If you have commitments (ie job, kids) that tie you down to a location, it may be more difficult to be nomadic.  However it is not impossible.  More extensive research may be required to make a decision on school districts and job market.  Perhaps it would be beneficial to secure a job that may even fund your relocation to the area.  Having continued W-2 income would help with financing your investments as well with the local banks in the investment city.

Now What?

Now that I've lived here here for about 1.5 years packed with experiences, I kinda get it. I've seen how much the market has changed since the time I perused the MLS in San Diego before I moved here. Those images I created about Cleveland has been solidified with real life experiences, relationships and images. I also have become MUCH more picky with potential candidates for investment. A lot of the properties that I might have considered in the past do not qualify for me anymore.

For those who are thinking about moving to their investment city, I'd say go for it!  Your day to day routine won't change that much: you will still have your Starbucks, Gold's Gym and Panera Bread that your boss loves so much.

The things I learned being hands on in my "investment city" has been instrumental to my investing and decision making.  The people you meet, the experiences, the regional tenant culture, and landlording ...I gained a deeper understanding having lived it and feel much more confident in my investment here than relying on someone else, sight unseen and unexperienced.  I feel moving forward, I'd be ok handing off the task to folks I've met here in Cleveland, with the tenants I placed, knowing I can easily slide right back into the system without missing a beat.  I won't be in Cleveland forever, but this experience has definitely had an indelible impact on my investing.  

If you moved to invest out of state, let me know if you think it was worth it and the most valuable lesson you've learned.

If you are thinking about investing out of state, do you plan to move or stay and why?  

**The Fireplace I Built.  What you know about putting crown molding on a 100 year old irregular plaster/lathe wall?  lol

Post: Keep a fireplace or remove it?

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68

From an insurance stand point, maintenance stand point, inspection stand point, I'd cap it.

Post: A few big Units or More Smaller Units?

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68

I have a duplex that's quite big...4000 square feet.  One unit occupies 2 floors + unfinished basement.  It's a 5 bedroom 2 bath.  I have been debating whether it would be worth it to convert to a triplex.  Each floor becoming a 2/1 apartment.  By doing so I project I can increase my cashflow by about $100-200 per month.

I have been temporarily living in the smaller unit while I rent out the 5 bedroom (house hack).  As someone who enjoys a clean quiet apartment complex, I find that having a bigger unit is not always a good thing.  

1.  More maintenance.  More people living in the unit causes more wear and tear.

2.  Bigger units are likely to invite more kids which has implications of wear and tear and noise levels.

3.  Clean out is a bigger pain for large units between tenants.  

I intentionally marketed my the unit for lease as a 3 bedroom to reduce the tenant pool to smaller families.  

What are your thoughts on having Fewer Large Units vs More Smaller Units in a MultiUnit Property?  Do you think it's worth the renovation to split the 5/2 unit into two 2/1 units?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Thanks!

Andrew

Post: My House Hacking Experience in Cleveland (Is it Right for You?)

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68
Yup property taxes.

Originally posted by @Quandra Adams:

@Andrew A., you mentioned taxes as it relates to the city I live in are you referring to property taxes? If not what other taxes are you referring to?

Post: My House Hacking Experience in Cleveland (Is it Right for You?)

Andrew A.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 62
  • Votes 68

@Cornel Smith

Hi Cornel, thanks for your question!  I bought the duplex cash as a foreclosure.  Cleveland real estate a year ago was quite different than now.  It's a bit harder to win those foreclosures because they place it at a stupid low price causing a bid war.  They say it's for owner occupants only, but I have a hard time believing all these owners are coming in with large amounts of cash to live in a C class neighborhood.  #my2cents

Yes I considered other markets other than Cleveland. I'm a bit spontaneous, but the main driver was the price point alongside my research of the area. Also I had already quit my job before the moment I decided to invest in real estate, so I wouldn't be able to qualify for a loan. I wanted low risk, low price point (barrier to entry) with maximum CAP for cash flow. I'm not particularly drawn to what Cleveland the city has to offer, I can make my niche anywhere. I may gradually migrate to another if the opportunity is better. More sun, better deals, better tenants, I'd gladly take that opportunity.

One duplex will not give you the income you need to make a living.  I had the income from the duplex and also did a flip on the side to supplement my income.

I built my first house in 2007 in Baltimore actually but it was more like, I was a corporate employee of 12 years, I wanted the nice house with the picket fence, so I built it.  A couple years later I sold it.  But unwittingly I made 100k off of the sale of that house (Maryland is much more expensive than Ohio in general).  Why didn't I continue to invest in real estate and instead keep working in corporate america?  This will require a separate post.

Hope this helps and go for it!

Andrew