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All Forum Posts by: Carlos Ptriawan

Carlos Ptriawan has started 84 posts and replied 7088 times.

Quote from @Paul Azad:

Came across this Deal from heritagegroupcapital.com, They are buying 2, 100k industrial fully tenanted/leased buildings in North East Indiana, near Fort Wayne. Sponsor is Jeff Greenberg, owner of Heritage Group Capital, 3rd generation CRE, at first did multi-family in New Jersey, now diversified. He is putting in 15% of equity as his family office as a TIC, tenant in common to the deal via a 1031 exchange, so that aligns him with LPs better than 99% of deals out there, also GP fees are fair to reasonable, 8% pref, then 80/20 and then for >14% IRR, they split 70/30, so better than 95% of last 100 deals I have seen. (I analyze syndication deals all the time, wife says I'm likely on some damn Spectrum :) I asked the first question on this week's webinar. They seem smart and straightforward. Min buy in is 50k, pays quarterly distribution. timeline 5-7 yrs, getting very good loan from insurance co source at 6.75% or so with interest only on yrs 1-3 then no defeasance penalties thereafter if they re-fi or sell. It is a very small investment, only 4.5 sticks, so should fill up fast. Industrial is a good place to be next 10 yrs IMO. watch recent webinar. What are your thoughts?

[NE Indy Industrial Portfolio (heritagegroupcapital.com)](https://heritagegroupcapital.com/ne-indy-industrial-portfolio/)


 Do you have appraisal opinion and comps ? What is the financing detail ? What is the exits assumption ?? Who is the tenant ?

Quote from @James De Stefano:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James De Stefano:

Pretty wild, thanks for the knowledge about "limited" fixed rate mortgages.  Seems like a mess that could be preventable. 

But U.S. is going to have our own issues with the 2.5 %  fixed rate loans that all went out, and is possible we don't see anything close to 4% rates for another 1/2 decade.   

It'll be interesting.  and probably something coming up to surprises 99.9% of people, like it always does 

it could be decades or never before we get sub 5%  I mean I started in RE in 75 and rates never really got below 5% until what 2012 ish or  so 47 years of 5% or more. ?? 


 Yup.  But man o man the prices were a fraction of this back in the 70's , 80's.   9 or 10% mortgage on a $60,000 loan was nothing too devastating, even with the lower income at the time. 

 7% mortgage on 500,000 loan is brutal!   Not sustainable except for the top 10-15% of Americans.   But corporations can handle it !!


 I think what the bank can offer later on would be 40 years loan with 30 year amortization, one can save 200-300 per month.

Quote from @Paul Azad:
Quote from @Melanie P.:

@Carlos Ptriawan I don't think the lenders on these projects are very excited about the state of the market. Nothing is going to happen in 2024 that will bail out these bad deals. If there's some major interest rate easing in 2025 you might see a rebound in multi family investments in 2026. Keep in mind the defaults and distressed sales that flow from them will further suppress cap rates until all of that inventory works its way out of the market and investors don't see more of it on the horizon. Highly possible prices won't hit their floor until 2027-28. This would be a pretty typical down cycle that we've seen many times in the past. 

A lot of podcasters content is not going to age well, LOL!


 Not sure this will be a typical down cycle, might be much worse, given extreme leverage at play both publicly and privately. Most new MF construction ever entering market now and next 24 months, and Macro, no reason for FED to cut rates as economy growing and lowest unemployment ever and most importantly FED screwed up with a slow/weak response to inflation in 2021/2022. This great/brief article by Research Affiliates

Res Affil Nov 2022 -history-lessons-how-transitory-is-inflation (1).pdf

shows that historically will take about 9-10 yrs on average for the US inflation to drop to below 3%, and the 20%/80% range of certainties puts that drop at between 6 yrs and 19 yrs. So if correct then we are looking at higher 10 Yr yields/cap rates for a very long time, like most of last century. Gone are the 42 yrs of falling interest rates where any Chimp with traumatic brain injury could make great returns in Stocks/Bond/Real Estate or any risk on Asset. Time for much more or "any" Due Diligence as Gravity ie the 10yr Yield will be much less forgiving. 


 Ten years from now people going to impress with the real estate or mogul in 2034 that purchased the distressed assets/notes in 2024 as it becomes too obvious.

One thing that we know whether inflation is sticky at 2% or not is that w know interest rate in 2026 is lower than 2024, that itself could spur investment growth in 2025.

All these down cycle in CRE could rebound relatively quick because the root cause of issue is M2 prints in 2021 but that issue is resolvable by the market completely in 2026.

Meaning q3/4 2024 and q1 in 2025 could be one of the best time to invest for the new cycle.

Quote from @Dan Illes:

I wanted to share something that has been going on up here as I believe there are lessons for everyone, and I don’t think this gets coverage at all in the US.

Up here in Canada we have had interest rates increase at the same crazy pace that the US experienced but are seeing some very negative consequences from it that are unique up here.

In Canada we do not have 30 year fixed mortgages. We have fixed mortgages that can be amortized for 30 years, but typically can only lock them in for 5 years maximum. Once that term is up you have to renew at the current rate. As this happens people’s mortgage payments have gone up somewhere around 60% in the worst scenarios. Our housing prices are insanely high to begin with.

We take adjustable rate mortgages at levels you would never see in the US. This happens because there are stiff penalties for breaking a fixed mortgage where you end up owing all the missed interest to the bank. I do not believe the US has these penalties at least not in the same way. Going adjustable gets you out of these penalties should you break an adjustable mortgage. Somewhere around a third of mortgages are adjustable. People on these mortgages had their payments go up automatically with every interest rate increase and saw cashflow completely wiped out. I personally had one go from $771/mo to $1250/mo. Luckily, I still cashflow a little bit. Some of the adjustable products, the payment stays the same, but the principal to interest allocation changes to the point where people are only paying interest and are now in a negative amortization where the amount they owe is actually going up. Not good!

Prices have fallen 25-30% since the peak. The majority of this happened in 2022. People flipping homes instantly got crushed and many people doing BRRRRs ended up under water both in equity and monthly payments as rates went up. Places would no longer appraise.

People cannot sell their homes easily either as there has been a flood of inventory, seller expectations are still yesterday’s prices and days on market are through the roof.

I personally know a number of people that have went bankrupt, lost properties and a ton of people that have lost money in the six or seven figures.

People that purchased new construction years ago are not able to close on their purchase as they are now worth much less and can’t afford the payments. This has been one of the biggest disasters. People are walking away from six-figure deposits they’ve made over time. Almost every few weeks there is a news story of new-construction homes burning down sometimes whole subdivisions. We don’t fully know the back story on this, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it was people trying to bide time as homes have to be rebuilt.

I decided to share this story as I’m sure anyone in the real estate world would find it interesting and there are some takeaways from this. On the flip side, this has presented some opportunities for the creative real estate investor as well.

Some news story links and a snapshot of what has happened to prices in my city.

https://www.cp24.com/news/video-shows-massive-fire-that-destroyed-under-construction-homes-in-burlington-1.6671785

https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/toronto-area-buyers-are-walking-away-from-deposits-on-new-homes-some-losing-as-much/article_db451c58-5c4b-5269-8510-17095d5496e1.html


 Asset price is dedicate of supply and demand

Supply and demand is derivative of central bank rate vs short/long term financing


Nothing surprise it is all in the math.

Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

btw to summarise, from the point of view of bridge lenders that issue "capital call" to multifamily it seems they are very well positioned financially to handle this multifamily downfall, this is not unpredictable but rather already assume by the fund manager , so, through active management the (institutional) investors into CLO seems would NOT see losses. The CLO manager could just buy the property out from their reserves ; and/or resell to different GP group and/or keep modifying the loan and transfer the CLO into future CLO package (move current debt into future debt) and/or they could refinance the entire loan with agency loan.

Most of these individuals asset are IO only anyway, with range of LTV between 65-75% from as-is DSCR of 0.25 to 1.50x so the risk is well known. Most of GP also has interest rate cap. That itself is already interest income to the lender.

There's extremely sophisticated bond agency review that review everything to the point that the risk rating for every apartment is known before the CLO is being sold.

my opinion: The more I researched about this the more I understand this is like tug of war between debt equity orchestrated and financed by wall street banks  vs  common people LP equity in the middle. The winner is obviously Wall Street. They want to be paid only by rate of 7%. 

I would say in multifamily area the biggest winner in term or risk/reward profile is the lender ; then the CLO buyer that receive 7% ; then the GP's that has equity and then the LP.   

The lender is in good position because the spread between CLO buyer and Fed note is only 2% !
And Think the LP that need to generate business and make profit of 5-7%. 

What's being funny is actually from the lender side of business they calculate the MF in historical basis -- when rate is not changing, the minimum IRR is at 7.1%. So between dividend of 7% and IRR of 7% that's historically not significant difference. I have been thinking about these over the years how come those financial institution could still alive with all the financial trouble.

.......

As side note, I am able to find out whacca really going on with Ashcroft like in this thread, the problem in this GP is there're too much over-leverage with not too much equity where their stabilized DSCR is 0.80x ; at the same time, bond agency rated their NOI target is off as wide as 30%. But this kind of risk profile has been addressed prior to the sale of its CLO issuance so nothing is unknown (

here's their analysis:

The sponsor for this transaction is LP serving as the guarantors. As of July 2022, the guarantors reported a combined net worth and liquidity of $169.3 million and $24.5 million, respectively, resulting in low respective loan multiples of 0.46x and 0.07x. Additionally, the borrowing entity consists of 10 TICs with syndicated equity, with key principals accounting for 7.5% of the total equity. As such, it applied as Weak sponsor strength in its analysis.

The as-is and as-stabilized appraised values of $457.8 million and $575.0 million yield as-is
and as stabilized fully funded LTVs of 73.6% and 63.6%, respectively, indicating relatively high initial leverage.

Based on elevated leverage, the portfolio’s suburban locations, Weak sponsorship, and other credit
metrics, the loan has an elevated loss that is higher than the pool average.  


 I am curious in what instance do people get their money back and when? For example has anyone who had the capital call asked what needs to happen such as:

1. Raise $20M in new equity

2. Vacancy rate goes to X%

3. Net rent per sf is $x

4. Borroworing rate goes to Y

5. Exit cap rates got Z

And compare those with where they are at now and run what-if scenarios in excel if one goes up or down....

Their msa is class a MF portfolio in Atlanta and Dallas, their case is simply too aggressive and too high leverage financing, their biz target was to increase rent to 1960 usd from 1600 usd . Their 2020 rent is 1600 usd , 2022 t12 is still 1600. NOI target was 30 percent apart.

Just wrong leveraging at the wrong time also expecting rent to increase when rent growth is zero. But their vacancy rate is all good at 92%.

Quote from @Melanie P.:

@Carlos Ptriawan I don't think the lenders on these projects are very excited about the state of the market. Nothing is going to happen in 2024 that will bail out these bad deals. If there's some major interest rate easing in 2025 you might see a rebound in multi family investments in 2026. Keep in mind the defaults and distressed sales that flow from them will further suppress cap rates until all of that inventory works its way out of the market and investors don't see more of it on the horizon. Highly possible prices won't hit their floor until 2027-28. This would be a pretty typical down cycle that we've seen many times in the past. 

A lot of podcasters content is not going to age well, LOL!

They are not excited but they already know that the project such as Ashgord would likely to fail when they issue the loan.

also because their nature of business in floating rate MREIT both as CLO issuer and agency. they can offset the loss on their CLO from the agency side of business.

their business is not like GP where they can only survive when rate is stable.

i am quite amazed by how these lender works , they have navigated 2008 pretty well as well.

btw to summarise, from the point of view of bridge lenders that issue "capital call" to multifamily it seems they are very well positioned financially to handle this multifamily downfall, this is not unpredictable but rather already assume by the fund manager , so, through active management the (institutional) investors into CLO seems would NOT see losses. The CLO manager could just buy the property out from their reserves ; and/or resell to different GP group and/or keep modifying the loan and transfer the CLO into future CLO package (move current debt into future debt) and/or they could refinance the entire loan with agency loan.

Most of these individuals asset are IO only anyway, with range of LTV between 65-75% from as-is DSCR of 0.25 to 1.50x so the risk is well known. Most of GP also has interest rate cap. That itself is already interest income to the lender.

There's extremely sophisticated bond agency review that review everything to the point that the risk rating for every apartment is known before the CLO is being sold.

my opinion: The more I researched about this the more I understand this is like tug of war between debt equity orchestrated and financed by wall street banks  vs  common people LP equity in the middle. The winner is obviously Wall Street. They want to be paid only by rate of 7%. 

I would say in multifamily area the biggest winner in term or risk/reward profile is the lender ; then the CLO buyer that receive 7% ; then the GP's that has equity and then the LP.   

The lender is in good position because the spread between CLO buyer and Fed note is only 2% !
And Think the LP that need to generate business and make profit of 5-7%. 

What's being funny is actually from the lender side of business they calculate the MF in historical basis -- when rate is not changing, the minimum IRR is at 7.1%. So between dividend of 7% and IRR of 7% that's historically not significant difference. I have been thinking about these over the years how come those financial institution could still alive with all the financial trouble.

.......

As side note, I am able to find out whacca really going on with Ashcroft like in this thread, the problem in this GP is there're too much over-leverage with not too much equity where their stabilized DSCR is 0.80x ; at the same time, bond agency rated their NOI target is off as wide as 30%. But this kind of risk profile has been addressed prior to the sale of its CLO issuance so nothing is unknown (

here's their analysis:

The sponsor for this transaction is LP serving as the guarantors. As of July 2022, the guarantors reported a combined net worth and liquidity of $169.3 million and $24.5 million, respectively, resulting in low respective loan multiples of 0.46x and 0.07x. Additionally, the borrowing entity consists of 10 TICs with syndicated equity, with key principals accounting for 7.5% of the total equity. As such, it applied as Weak sponsor strength in its analysis.

The as-is and as-stabilized appraised values of $457.8 million and $575.0 million yield as-is
and as stabilized fully funded LTVs of 73.6% and 63.6%, respectively, indicating relatively high initial leverage.

Based on elevated leverage, the portfolio’s suburban locations, Weak sponsorship, and other credit
metrics, the loan has an elevated loss that is higher than the pool average.  

Post: Chat GPT for skiptracing?

Carlos Ptriawan#2 Market Trends & Data ContributorPosted
  • Posts 7,162
  • Votes 4,420
Quote from @Austin Bright:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Austin Bright:

I was curious if anyone has tried to use use GPT 4 to search white pages and/or other sites for phone numbers. Would anyone know more about that? If I could have Chat gpt take a list of addresses and return potential phones, that'd be insane.


 TheAu use realtyhop dotcom anyway as source


 What?


 The AI that I use , using realtyhop.com to reveal owner information 

Post: Chat GPT for skiptracing?

Carlos Ptriawan#2 Market Trends & Data ContributorPosted
  • Posts 7,162
  • Votes 4,420
Quote from @Austin Bright:

I was curious if anyone has tried to use use GPT 4 to search white pages and/or other sites for phone numbers. Would anyone know more about that? If I could have Chat gpt take a list of addresses and return potential phones, that'd be insane.


 TheAu use realtyhop dotcom anyway as source

Quote from @Jeff S.:

@Carlos Ptriawan 
It is over 30" at the trunk about 40' tall but dropped a limb onto the deck and broke the framing. Last bid was $8400 to take out and dispose or could leave it in the yard for $1900.  When large limb breaks off it means the tree has problems.


 Nice , I paid about the same. Luckily insurance is taking care everything in my case.