All Forum Posts by: C Rutherford

Assuming I am in a Class C neighborhood.  I don't know.
When I was getting into this initially, I almost got a duplex in a class "B" neighborhood instead.   However I have checked the property taxes on it recently and they are more than twice as much as what I'm being charged.   Also compared to the duplex I bought, for the same price:  Unlike the class B which had no garage, it has a double garage, which I can rent out the other side, and gives much needed storage for maintenance supplies.   It has a full yard, which is a nice selling point.   It has basement access without having to go through the tenant apartment, that is huge from a management standpoint to get to the utilties.    The Class B duplex also had foundation issues.  I was going to hire someone to address it, which would be costly- but still there was that extra expense.

But most of all, the Class B duplex I turned down, had someone in it who wasn't paying rent.  For how long, I don't know.  The owner selling was a doctor, who was probably selling for that reason, he did not want to kick her out.    But he had the money to house a squatter indefinitely if need be I'm sure.  I do not.

I tried requiring he move her to another one of his own apartments before buying.  He would not.   So I abandoned the sale.
It would have been nice to be in a Class B neighborhood I'm sure.   But where would I be now, had I gone with that duplex?

>>>>don't deal in C and below properties>>>>

I am very interested in this.
First, what is a C and below property?
Second, in my city having rentals in the desireable neighborhoods costs twice the amount of property taxes a year or more.  And correspondingly, higher property insurance rates too which go by property value.
That's thousands more you need to come up with in rent annually, and that much more pressure during vacancies.
Are the tenants really that much better?

Provided where you rent is low crime, I'm not seeing how a more desireable neighborhood, provided everything else the same, would translate into longer staying tenants.    My vacancies usually happen over things like abandonment after losing their job, having medical issues, wanting to move in with a new boyfriend, giving Pay or Quit notices for not paying rent.... and so forth.
I'm not saying your wrong, but is there any evidence that if I tried to get in a Class B or A neighborhood, paid all that money, and all that more in taxes..... that things would be that different as far as tenant behavior.  What are the reasons.

@Parris Taylor your solution is confusing, I'm not seeing it.
Are you saying that you solved everything by calling and talking to the tenants directly, instead of using texts?    I hope you're not saying that.

Because I know from experience that would make my life a complete nightmare, lol.   Calling them on the phone not only makes things more emotional, and draws you into the lives of all your tenants..... it takes way more time and scheduling around them being available to talk.  But much worse, there's no record at all of what you said, and what they said.
This is not good from a memory standpoint, but can be disastrous if there is any kind of problem or dispute.

Say there's a leaking toilet that destroyed the floor, because it was never reported for you to even address.   
Texting:  You have proof they never notified you, you have proof you told them to report leaks immediately.
All phone calls:   They never tell you about it.  You take them to court, and they lie and claim they told you on the phone about it every month.  Where is the evidence?

Texting:  They tell you this, they tell you that.  You tell them this, you tell them that.  There is a record of everything, right there.  You can go back and see all the conversations.  You forget nothing, they cannot pretend you said what you didn't and on.

Calling "personally":  No security, no record- its your word against theirs.  Everyone is ready to blame the landlord, and does if there is a problem or dispute.   Problems easily become emotionally charged when you have to make demands.   You can get frustrated, say the wrong thing without time to think about it because you have to answer on the spot.   Conversations can quickly spiral out of control.

How is that better?   If that was not your solution, my apologies because I'd love to hear what else it was that worked.

>>>>Perhaps the answer is to sell and invest in something else more reliable or passive. Good luck.>>>>

@Ned Carey  Bravo, I love the idea.    I am ready to put the for sale  signs up today.
What IS that more reliable and passive alternative you are referring to, you say I should do instead?   I'm all ears and ready to try.   But it better be stable.

Because otherwise if I don't have any income, I won't be able to keep my house, car and eat for long after the money I make from selling the properties runs out.
The money I saved all my life.  And I'm too old to save it all up again.
To me it seems suffering is better than living in a cardboard box, if  you get my drift.

@Matthew Irish-Jones agreed, I need to hire help.  I would love to do that.
Unfortunately the income from the rentals is just enough to pay the bills, cover any emergency expenses, and pay taxes and insurance.   I am running a tight budget.
There's nothing left over to pay the wages of a property manager.   Right now with all these vacancies, I will be lucky if I save up enough to get the property taxes and insurance paid.   I also need a new garage roof at my own home I need to save up for, there's a tarp over it now, and a large leaning tree in the backyard I need removed before it falls on the neighbors house.   Trying to save up for those, too.   And a huge renovation coming of one of the apartments, which may turn out to be costly just in supplies.

What do you recommend I can do on the side, as a second business.... provided as soon as I get caught up with these vacancies which were an unlucky hit-- to make the extra money so I can afford to hire a property manager.     Without giving up being self employed, because that was the whole reason I got into this to begin with.   Does that make sense?

@Jules Aton the scheduling the coming week  for the pest control was not laziness of negligence on my part---- although you'd be hard pressed to find any company for hire, Orkin or other in the country, or any other company for hire for that matter who you could schedule to get onsite that fast.   Are you serious?

I'm surprised you would move out of an apartment before the place could even get someone.   Even if they started calling the moment you mentioned the problem, I doubt they could get someone out there sooner.
People are so hard on property managers and quick to judge and blame them for everything- first, you don't even live on site, yet you are expected to wave a wand and make all their problems disappear, even if they were created by the tenant themselves.   If not, the blame always firmly rests on the property manager.  "This place is a dump!" they say, after they made it a dump.   Then they move, and leave you with a dump right.   And on.

It was not me, it was the tenants upstairs who brought in the roaches.   They are the ones who were not taking out their garbage, leaving food in the sinks and on the floor, and not keeping their own home clean.   Am I supposed to be their maid?   My pleas for them to follow hygiene have been met with annoyance or accusations of being invasive.

At any rate, they were the reason for the short delay. I asked them
immediately to let me know a day the people upstairs will both be out of
the building so the spraying can be scheduled, and they told me Tuesday
afternoon-- the old woman is taking her son to the doctor. That is
why it was Tuesday. I would think as a tenant knowing the problem
was addressed within that short of a time period would be a positive
sign, not reason to move out. If you did, you will soon find that most
places are not as responsive.

@Colleen F.  I am burned out yes but there are reasons.   One is I'm doing this completely alone, and can't afford help. 
I'm in a financial bind, absolutely need to come up with a second source of income.    But I'm seeing so much bad luck, its looking like I will have no real time to even try this for a couple more months at least.
  
Of the 5 units, I have one I've been trying to fill for a week now, with no luck finding someone who is even of acceptable risk after background checking- and inquiries are worryingly slacking off.   I have another tenant who has just had to abandon their lease for medical reasons, so I've had to let her out of her lease.
That apartment will now have to be cleaned, renovated, and the long interview and vetting process before I can find a replacement.

And now I just found out my worst tenants, the ones who destroyed the upstairs apartment with their filthy lifestyle, have announced they're moving next month too!   They are leaving because the son can't get up and down the stairs due to medical reasons.   This has got to be good in the long run, but its so hard to do it all alone.   I'm looking at that apartment, the biggest one and all the damage they did to it.   And I get nothing but negativity from my family, all they ever do is tell met to quit and 'get a job'.   I don't even have time right now to fix my furnace.
Its hard right now.  

@Jules I am thinking more along these lines.   The 5 Day Notice talks about court filing fees, and on because this is to avoid squatters.
But this seems to be the only card property managers have.   Without this.... these renters have possession of your property, they have the keys, and there is no way they will do anything on the lease, because what else can you do?   You can fine them, but how can you make someone pay fines? 

My fear is her statement about keeping her cats elsewhere.    Her precious cats right.   I don't know why she would need to protect them from bugs, or if it was all a lie, I have no idea.  But that makes me wonder if she's wanting an excuse to ditch on her lease.

Still, why pay any rent at all, then?
I agree, I have my hands full with 2 other potential vacancies out of 5.  I already put in long hours with the last vacancy which isn't even filled yet... and probably have ginormous hours of labor and renovation expense coming next if the people upstairs actually do move.
I'm left with sending the notice stating she now owes $50 unpaid on October rent.
She completely ignores the rent amount, is paying what she wants, when she wants.  She has taken control of the lease.  
But I can't face 3 vacancies at once.    IDK.   It is bothering me a lot, but it seems my options are slim here

Looking for more advice as I'm struggling to find a living solution.  I'm trying to manage and rent 5 units all by myself- which has turned out to be way more work than I imagined, and the money has never been particularly good.   In fact its been quite a lot of stress and long hours, especially lately.   

Part of the low money reason is I very quickly found that 5 units is all the deeper I want to get into property management.
Housing humans I have found is unpredictable.  They can be unreasonable, unfair, lie..... sometimes damage property or bring in pests--- and they don't stay- the continual vacancies and renovations are the biggest hit.
I can do this, but I just don't want to get in any deeper.    The idea was always to have a second business, but that just hasn't materialized and I can never get caught up.
I've also been at this for a number of years now, but seem to be stagnated and going nowhere.   I need to pivot, but haven't found a solution yet.  

Right now one of my immediate problems is something I've never faced before, and is unexpectedly driving me crazy..  
After vetting very carefully I ended up offering my studio apartment to a woman with 2 cats.     She makes a big fuss about them- even has a cat mat in front of the apartment, and on.    But I checked her previous rental and she kept it clean and took care of them, so gambled on her.
What I got was something totally unexpected.  

This woman keeps a clean apartment, takes care of her pets, that's all good.   But she pays short on rent.   She's done this three times now.   I've never seen anything like this before.

She continually pays $10 less than the stated amount on the lease.
Let me say first:
As an incentive, I give tenants $20 off rent if they pay ontime.  I've done this for years.   Surprisingly, this usually results in everyone paying on the 1st, and with my slim budget, its necessary.   It also makes a nice sales pitch when trying to fill vacant apartments.   The system works, and I'm OK with it.

The first month she paid $10 short, I told her if she got the missing $10 in by bank close on the 1st, she can get the discount and avoid owing $30.   $10 to save $30.  Makes logical sense right.
She went back to the bank, and deposited the $10.    All was good.

The following month:  She paid $10 short again!   Again I messaged her about it.   This is not the rent stated on the lease, and you need to make complete rent to avoid any late fees.
This time she tells me, its too late to go to the bank, I can deposit it in the morning.   Trying to be nice, I make an exception:  Okay, if you can complete the rent payment first thing in the morning, we'll still give you the ontime discount.  Even though rent wasn't on time right.    
She pays the $10.

My reward the following month for letting the rules go, was she didn't pay rent at all.
I usually message everyone on the morning of the 1st to remind them to get the ontime discount, they need to get rent in by bank close.
I message her.

"The bank is closed?" is her reply.  "Well then I'll have to get rent in 1st thing tomorrow morning!"
"No no, the banks are open, all 3 branches", was my reply.  I passed on the bank phone number.
"I'm so glad I checked with you.  Now you can complete rent ontime, and get the discount."

Bank closes, and no rent payment at all.
OK this is extremely weird.

So I call her, and explain about the ontime discount.
She complains about the tenants upstairs, saying they brought in roaches.   
"They told me they're moving out", was my weary reply, anticipating the mountain of work ahead for me, to renovate their trashed apartment.   The people upstairs are indeed, unclean.    But they have always paid rent, and I've dreaded the long renovation after they leave.... and so I've endured it.
"I'll have to keep my cats at a friends house until then" was her reply.  

My response was to immediately schedule a roach spraying, which of course I'm doing myself.
Set it for next week.  Sent announcement to all tenants.  I could not be addressing this faster right.
"What about the rent?"  I ask her
"Oh I'll pay that in the morning", is her reply.

The next day she pays rent, late.   But she pays $10 LESS than the discounted on-time rent, again.
I text her:  Please complete the rent, you need to pay $30 this time, as its both late and short.
She doesn't.

Finally, having no other option, I mail her the 5 Day Notice.  This is the notice in Illinois which states their lease rights can be suspended at the expiry of 5 days if they don't pay rent, standard fare.
Being nice again the 5 Day Notice- Incomplete Rent states:   If you pay the $30 by October 9th, there will be no late fee.  If it is not paid by then, there will be a $20 late fee and tenant will owe $50.

The 9th comes and goes.  She pays nothing.

I'm now looking out of 5 apartments, vital for my income survival.  1 is currently vacant, I am trying to fill.
The second, the roachy people upstairs, who have told me they plan to move out next month, which will be a massive ordeal to renovate clean and re-rent.
And this woman, #3.   I am up against the wall.  I mailed her the 5 day notice, saying she must complete her rent, and she won't.

Do I file for eviction over $10?
Then I may be looking at 3 out of 5 of my apartments, vacant.   Talk about stressful, right.
But if I don't do anything, this basically tells her she can pay less than the stated rent, from now on.  Which is a disaster in itself. Not to mention the other tenants may find out, and start doing it too.

What would you do?

I'm back here again  :/
Frankly I am really feeling down tonight.  Years doing this and I need to pivot and find some other solution, some way out of this.   I'm at rock bottom, and I'm stuck.
 
My life's goal was to be self employed, I didn't really care what line of work.
And I certainly put a ton of work into this business idea.  And its working.  I have a business and I'm running it all by myself.  But I can't afford to hire any help--- in fact with recent events I don't even know if I'll make bills this month.  

I'm still stuck with the 5 units.  I can't afford more, nor do I want to take on more.

I am able to do repairs on my own, and I do everything I can. I even mow the lawns.    But I'm putting in all these hours keeping the whole thing going alone...managing my own life and crisises....  and can never seem to find the time to start a second income.   Because it seems every other month someone moves!
And that sets me back a month of work renovating, cleaning, interviewing, and signing someone else.

This is probably the worst time ever.   I first had someone I screened so carefully ditch on their lease and not pay rent, and they left me with an entire apartment full of furniture- upstairs, no less.   It took me all month to get the furniture sold and out, at garage sale prices- and to get the apartment cleaned.  And I started interviewing.  Then tonight I got the most devastating news.

The worst apartment, that the senior and her do-nothing son trashed and filled with roaches with their surprisingly filthy lifestyle I mentioned earlier.   They're MOVING.
I got the news from a downstairs tenant tonight I called that was late on rent.  She says furniture has been banging over the floors and going down the stairs all night yesterday, being moved out.  Apparently the son got disability apparently, so they're off to trash a new place.   They'll be out by the 15th.   And of course, no longer paying rent.

That gives me just 2 weeks to get the currenty vacancy rented, then I will have hiroshima to clean up with the next apartment.   And no rent money from them to pay my own bills, let alone renovations.    Not to mention tax bills and property insurance I need to save for.  And the roaches they brought in, that the other two tenants in the building are already complaining about- one suggesting she may even move herself.   Can I even get rid of them?   Its overwhelming to say the least.

Maybe I need to sell and get out of this.  But I don't know what else to do.  If I sell, I won't have any income, and will lose what equity I have just living.

 
Do I give up on being self employed?   I don't want to give up, but what can I do if I get out of housing people.  They are too destructive and unpredictable.  
I thought I would just have 5 units and have another business on the side, but this is a full time job housing humans and not really making much money after all the bills and stress.  There has to be a better way  :/

I know people have given advice already.  I'm looking at it.  I'm just wanting to talk about ideas more.

Small landlord here, who leases out a few apartments and doesn't have big income, and therefore can't hire out and have to do pretty much everything myself. Including repairs, renovations, hvac and plumbing, mowing, and of course screening and interviewing tenants, backchecking- which can take a ton of time.

I've been doing this a number of years now but to date I have never charged any application fees. But of course I also have to do all the backchecking myself.

This can be a lot of work because in my position being stuck with just one squatter could be lethal. So its super important I find good dependable renters.

I'm wondering about these services like TurboTenant, RentSpree, Transunion SmartMove, AppFolio and on. Most of these focus on credit scores, which to date I'm not really sure whether is an overrated indication of how good a renter a tenant will turn out to be, or not. But they also do background checking, criminal records, and on.... things I have to do myself manually. The applicants pay a fee, anywhere between $20 and $55, sign on one of these sites and fill out the information requested. And then you get the report, and go from there.

My questions:

- Has anyone leasing used services like this, and did you find them helpful and worth it? Am I a fool for never doing this, or are these services overrated.

- Do you charge application fees?

- In your opinion does screening tenants through these services help to bring in good renters, or do you find many just don't sign on and follow through?

Thoughts and experiences??