All Forum Posts by: Debra Vance

Scott Rowe,

Yes, you have done very well. I am not bothered by that or spiteful as you put it. I love capitalism, but that you really make your money through the marketing, period. Yes, I am sure you have real estate, good for you. My only point in my post is that someone asked about it and I'm giving my experience. And the truth is, once you get in you just want us to market the education. You were a peddler, those are your words, that's what you did. I am not. I never was a peddler. And I got in it for the education. I thought "mentor" was that I was going to have a mentor to help me do real estate. But after I signed up I realized that "mentor" was mentoring me to sell the education, period. And when I bought the "combo" I was supposed to get six private coaching sessions. Well, I only got four and I was told that I only had a limited amount of time to get the six coaching sessions, but she did say she would do it and we set up several appointments but they never happened, I waited for the call that I never got, so I only got four private coaching sessions, which, in my opinion, should be at any time during your two years so that as you get started you can ask questions of an instructor. You sell the education but there are people, and I know you know this, that only do the marketing. That's the income stream. I was told that by one of the top earners, but will not drop a name. And there were a few others, too. And for these it's not real estate. And I am also in a different part of the country and real estate is local. It's an area with not a lot of people and real estate is expensive. And I have met people in a small, local REI group who do a lot of RE, wholesaling, flipping, and they all learned on the Internet and some of them even mentor people. So no one needs Renatus to learn real estate. What you need is money. And all I am trying to do is give people the truth of what you're getting into, that you have to be a good marketer to make the money, to cash flow on the 5 percent you get from your "team" members. So please tell me what part of that is not true? And if marketing is not your thing, then it's not. I haven't tried to recruit people recently because I have a guilty conscience doing it. I just can't ask people to get stuck like I did. And I even told my mentor that a long time ago, that I feel like I'm selling a lie. And you also know that you have to actually buy the education to make money, so as someone wrote selling to make money to buy the education is false. As you say Scott, I never saw anyone become certified that didn't buy the education... So at least tell the truth of what it's about.

So you got stuck with APS too. Well, did you know all that stuff about the guy? Did Bob Snyder question this guy's lifestyle? I am sure to those who knew him the handwriting was on the wall, at least at the end. Sorry, but I am the stupid consumer and Bob Snyder should have vetted this guy. Maybe you will learn not to push people one way or the other to buy this service or that. You really shouldn't, stick to Renatus. And whoever asked the question about my self-directed IRA I was in and how I didn't know, I thought it was one that I could only buy gold in. I didn't know I could buy anything. But I can assure you the people working at APS knew that and should have asked that question to me, why would you want to move your money if you're in a self-directed IRA. Again, you can call me stupid if you want, but, let's face it, a lot of people don't understand all that stuff about investing, etc., whether it's a traditional IRA or not. I actually did think to call the one I was in and ask them, but I just thought it was different, that I couldn't use the money to buy real estate in the one I was in. I am not saying Scott Rowe or Bob Snyder knew, but the APS people knew.

So Scott, you make your money on the overflow, so please just admit that.  Sure you have real estate.  You're in Chicago, you're a deal maker, and you know how to sell.  You sold, you built a team, and you have the money to invest.  You have deals in Chicago, good for you.  I am glad for you.  But all you care about is getting more people selling because that's how you make your six-figure income, cash flow income, on the overrides.  The real estate is your investment for your kids and grandkids.  Great.  But at least tell the whole truth.  Let people get in with their eyes wide open, make it fair.  Then, if people want to market, have at it.  But I will always tell the truth of my experience, just my experience.  You have yours and I have mine.

And, Adam, I don't know who you are, but please don't think you know me because you don't.  I have worked very hard all my life.  I wanted something so that I could move to Florida.  I looked into many things.  This is the biggest thing that I got into and it was a mistake for me.  I am not a peddler or marketer.  That's who Renatus is for.  So keep your opinions about me to yourself.

I just want people to know that if you're good at marketing you can make money. But if you just want the education, there's lots of places to get that from. Join a local REI group. And Scott, please stop calling me spiteful or whatever, because you don't know me either. Again, I am all for people making a lot of money and for the government getting as little as possible. I am a conservative, not a progressive liberal. I hope you make 2 million next year. This has nothing to do with you, but you would like it to be. It's only about getting the truth out and letting people make a decision based on that. Look for people like Mike Adams, that's the people that you need. Salespeople and marketers..............

And the guy managing the properties is still around and had I bought a property I would have lost everything.....glad I didn't...I know people who lost on that deal..................

And the stuff you did you can learn without Renatus. People do it every day, without Renatus. And that is your opinion about APS, but what you should have said, Mr. Rowe, is, Hey, you can use your IRA to invest in real estate. Look into self-directed IRAs. You and Bob Snyder take no responsibility for that? You know what, Scott, my money already was in a self-directed IRA. Did anyone say to me, Gee, instead of paying the money to switch to APS, you don't need to, do you realize that? Scott, the guy who owned APS taught the class, right? So if he was so great, why did you guys take his class down? hmm... The point is that you do, as a company and business, have a responsibility to vet people like DeYoung. I did my homework and found out that he was giving he and his wife salaries of about 400k a year. he took his own money out of APS about 8 months before it all came crashing down. And recently, I believe it was on a founder's webinar, I actually heard Bob Snyder mention DeYoung's name. I almost fell on the floor. No one questioned his extravagant lifestyle or the fact he took his money out eight months before it went into receivership?

And, by the way, I haven't been able to make any real estate deals because I don't have enough money, but not just you but all the gurus tell you you can do it with no money and credit.  I can't even get a mortgage because I have too much debt thanks to the money I spent and I'm still paying the credit cards off.  Your experience is NOT typical, and you know that.  There are many others out there like me.

And I never said that Renatus made me choose APS.  However, you, Scott Rowe, certainly championed them and, like I said, you should have told people that they're out there and to do your own homework.  And if you don't consider a guy teaching a class on self-directed IRAs for Renatus happens to have a company who owns one a conflict of interest, then I don't know what that is. 

And you can dispute, if you want, the guy who is managing the units ripped people off, but the fact is he did and I only thank God that I didn't buy one.  They have no cash flow because the guy managing it pretty much says they owe him money.  That's great cash flow...I know the people who are going through it and I know there are others in the same boat.  So I guess I'll leave it at that.  At least you could be honest and say, like you say about DeYoung, well hey, I didn't know he was a con artist, or words to that effect.

And if you want to say I am angry, well that's your opinion.  What I am is terribly worried about how I will ever be able to retire, and at my age that is around the corner, and I can't even support myself.  To anger isn't the word for me, Scott, you just want to put that on me.  I am worried about my future...and I really thought Renatus was the answer but it was not and I will tell anybody and everybody I can.  That is my experience and it is all the truth.  What you claim is spin.

I posted before but I must post again. Stay away from Renatus. I got involved and I lost basically my 15k. Yes, I am a fool. What they are about is selling the education, period. That's how Scott Rowe makes most of his money. Sure, he does buy apartment buildings. But he is probably making close to a million a year on overrides from other people selling and buying the education. Don't be fooled. I regret it. And they also "recommend" this and that, like self-directed IRAs. Well that company APS, is in receivership and they want everyone who has money in there to pay 10% of it because of a 22 million shortfall. Yes, again a fool. They also pushed a duplex deal where it cost 45k and the rent was $1,200 a month. Sounds like a great deal -- not. they used to use it to entice people as a way to pay for the education. Everything is about that. But guess what. The guy managing the Property eventually rips you off with fees and repairs and you end up owing him money. Great cash flow. I almost did that one but luckily I didn't. But I know people who did, a lot of people in Renatus got taken by that scam.  Need to fix your credit, they know a guy. But trust me run away from Renatus as fast a  you can 

If anyone out there knows a lawyer that wants to sue bob snyder and Scott Rowe about the APS mess please contact me somehow. Like this post or something.

stay away from Renatus and especially Scott Rowe. Bad news. They make it sound so easy but once you get in then they want you to buy the education. The only people making money are the ones that have large "teams" living off overrides. The education would be better if you find a local REIA group. You can learn just as much and have local people to team up with. Renatus wants you to sell the education. That's it. I got hooked into a self-directed Ira APS. And now it's in receivership and the owner is indicted and they want to take 10% out of everyone's account and I was only in it for less than a year. Stay away. Google APS receivership and you'll see.

Coach mentor is a joke. They mentor you how to sell the education not in real estate investing.