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All Forum Posts by: Garry Miller

Garry Miller has started 2 posts and replied 31 times.

Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Garry Miller:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Garry Miller:
Quote from @Mike Grudzien:

Garry,
I'm surprised that working at this level of real estate development and deal size that you and your partners don't have at least a dozen lenders in your back pocket that deal at that level and like your work....
I'm interested in seeing the answers here.

 Great question  - we've had a lot of success with these not quite dozen, but 7 lenders and they're all in on their respective deals to finance the Vertical construction, secured by the housing assets yet to be built.  This request is for a short term, construction/bridge loan so we can get through the infrastructure phase only.  More transparently - it gets us out of the land bank holding phase now.  Available cash is servicing the debt, with construction partners on the sideline waiting to be put to work.   Thanks for the clarifying questions - I hope this opens up some more perspectives about how to solve for this opportunity! 

1. You’re trying to replace equity you don’t have with debt.  The “horizontal”construction, while sometimes can be partially financed by debt depending on developer track record, is more often regarded as the “skin” in the game put in by developer either theirselves or thru a syndicated equity offering. I get requests for this kind of financing all the time from mortgage brokers who don’t understand the equity / debt relationship.

2. Texas is somewhat unique in that a bond can be issued which will cover some of the cost of the infrastructure development. The bond will be paid by an improvement district tax paid for by the property owners.Their are two underwriters who handle these type of bonds.  However, qualification is quite difficult because the underwriters are selling these bonds to their longtime clients and excessive defaults will kill their business.  The first thing the underwriters consider is the financial position of the developer.  Unless that’s solid they will go no further. Secondly they require the developer to place 25% of the bond issue amount in escrow, so for a $20 million bond issue that’s $5 million.  Then if the total does not cover full infrastructure development they require a plan that covers the additional amount required. 

The particular development I’m involved in spent about $400,000 on soft costs to be able to provide the necessary information to the underwriter - this was in addition to all other soft costs usually incurred in development. 

Great discussion.. Bond financing while it works in my experience is time consuming and like you said expensive.. I did 4 of them in CA back in the day..  1915 act and Mello roos. these were late 80s and even back then the Mello Roos one I did in Nevada county Ca the soft cost were in excess of 250k U had to have very expensive appraisal you had to pay bond council and then you had the investment bankers who sold the bonds. The one I did in Nevada county was the first one they ever  did in that county.. But today Mello Roos is very widly used in CA. and Frankly one of the only ways developers can get these deals done as the cash needs for infrastructure and offsites is just so high they need this added leverage. 

Oregon has Bond issues but only the cities or counties can use them private developers cannot expect for rare instances.. This makes development in our area very tough for guys like me that are not publicly traded or a large regional developer.. so the public companies and the large regional have kicked all us little guys to the curb basically. I can get horizontal for my projects but my commercial bank requires the dirt to be paid for and these are multi decade connections along with substantial deposit relationships.. 

I think Garry might want to consider phasing this into as small of chunks as possible  trying to land one huge loan is pretty tough.

 Well said team, this is progressing nicely.  I appreciate the insight both of you have shared @Jay Hinrichs and @Don Konipol.  We've been able to rework this in to phases and lower the financing needed to move forward with Horizontal work, around a 7M bridge loan, that keeps the equity table a little more balanced.  I've sent you both an email with more details, and would be glad to reach out for more guidance in the future!  

Sounds like you’re proceeding well, Garry.  Give us updates as it progresses; we want to add you as a success story! 

 Absolutely 

Post: Start the Week with Funding Power

Garry MillerPosted
  • Developer
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 3

sent!

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Garry Miller:
Quote from @Mike Grudzien:

Garry,
I'm surprised that working at this level of real estate development and deal size that you and your partners don't have at least a dozen lenders in your back pocket that deal at that level and like your work....
I'm interested in seeing the answers here.

 Great question  - we've had a lot of success with these not quite dozen, but 7 lenders and they're all in on their respective deals to finance the Vertical construction, secured by the housing assets yet to be built.  This request is for a short term, construction/bridge loan so we can get through the infrastructure phase only.  More transparently - it gets us out of the land bank holding phase now.  Available cash is servicing the debt, with construction partners on the sideline waiting to be put to work.   Thanks for the clarifying questions - I hope this opens up some more perspectives about how to solve for this opportunity! 

1. You’re trying to replace equity you don’t have with debt.  The “horizontal”construction, while sometimes can be partially financed by debt depending on developer track record, is more often regarded as the “skin” in the game put in by developer either theirselves or thru a syndicated equity offering. I get requests for this kind of financing all the time from mortgage brokers who don’t understand the equity / debt relationship.

2. Texas is somewhat unique in that a bond can be issued which will cover some of the cost of the infrastructure development. The bond will be paid by an improvement district tax paid for by the property owners.Their are two underwriters who handle these type of bonds.  However, qualification is quite difficult because the underwriters are selling these bonds to their longtime clients and excessive defaults will kill their business.  The first thing the underwriters consider is the financial position of the developer.  Unless that’s solid they will go no further. Secondly they require the developer to place 25% of the bond issue amount in escrow, so for a $20 million bond issue that’s $5 million.  Then if the total does not cover full infrastructure development they require a plan that covers the additional amount required. 

The particular development I’m involved in spent about $400,000 on soft costs to be able to provide the necessary information to the underwriter - this was in addition to all other soft costs usually incurred in development. 

Great discussion.. Bond financing while it works in my experience is time consuming and like you said expensive.. I did 4 of them in CA back in the day..  1915 act and Mello roos. these were late 80s and even back then the Mello Roos one I did in Nevada county Ca the soft cost were in excess of 250k U had to have very expensive appraisal you had to pay bond council and then you had the investment bankers who sold the bonds. The one I did in Nevada county was the first one they ever  did in that county.. But today Mello Roos is very widly used in CA. and Frankly one of the only ways developers can get these deals done as the cash needs for infrastructure and offsites is just so high they need this added leverage. 

Oregon has Bond issues but only the cities or counties can use them private developers cannot expect for rare instances.. This makes development in our area very tough for guys like me that are not publicly traded or a large regional developer.. so the public companies and the large regional have kicked all us little guys to the curb basically. I can get horizontal for my projects but my commercial bank requires the dirt to be paid for and these are multi decade connections along with substantial deposit relationships.. 

I think Garry might want to consider phasing this into as small of chunks as possible  trying to land one huge loan is pretty tough.

 Well said team, this is progressing nicely.  I appreciate the insight both of you have shared @Jay Hinrichs and @Don Konipol.  We've been able to rework this in to phases and lower the financing needed to move forward with Horizontal work, around a 7M bridge loan, that keeps the equity table a little more balanced.  I've sent you both an email with more details, and would be glad to reach out for more guidance in the future!  

This is really appreciated and clear.  Thanks for the info!

Post: Where to get mezzanine debt?

Garry MillerPosted
  • Developer
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 3

But you're gonna need some private money relationships to increase your close rate on these.  I hate losing deals for not having 5% here or there, especially when you've already raised 1M....you're going to develop some friends who will help out to close these deals that are going to charge you just for that...stepping on the scale when you need it most!

Post: Where to get mezzanine debt?

Garry MillerPosted
  • Developer
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 3

Bridge loans to close these types of deals, refinance the properties after the first year or two once you've done some cosmetics/rent increases to raise value and cash flow and then you refi to pay back your bridge loans. That or you can try going DSCR out the gate.

Quote from @Mike Klarman:

Here's my thoughts:

  • Loan Type & Terms – Does the lender offer competitive rates and terms that fit your investment strategy? I would think most do not have a specific strategy other than make money.  That's part of the issue.  Most times when a deal is brought in, the numbers do not even work or the borrower does not have the credit.  A good portion of the time remaining, the numbers are not real.  With a simple search I see the ARV they think they're getting is a joke and it is clear they do not know what they are doing.  When it comes to bridge loans, I'd say don't be so rate sensitive at the start.  It is what it is.  But once you are 5+ you will be sub 11% everywhere, maybe sub 10%.  As far as loan type.  Lots of lenders do 1 - 4 family houses.  The decision for these lenders at the start of your career are not about rate and points, it's about who will do a 0 and what is the leverage.  If anything, I'd want someone over my shoulder, underwriting the deal, and if I am off, tell me. 
  • Speed & Reliability – Do they actually close on time, or do they create last-minute headaches?  The Closing process is huge, being good at it that is.  There's a few moving parts to it and sometimes the hold up can be: The Seller, Title Company, Legal, lots of things other than lender or broker.  Some Lenders do have better closing teams than others.  I do not want to name names or throw digs but I have had nightmare closings b/c someone in Legal missed something or the coordinator drops the ball.  If you are working with a Broker, he has to me communicative and also you have to know the loan is going through the stages: Application - Processing - Underwriting - Committee - CTC. You should know where your loan is at all times, or your broker should.  Sometimes it's the borrower holding things up.  Some aren't so great with forms and docs.  So it goes both ways.
  • Reputation & Reviews – How do you verify a lender or broker’s credibility? What red flags do you look for? As far as credibility goes, if you are dealing in the 1 - 4 family bucket, you shouldn't be taken at all.  There's lots of big box national lenders.  Not saying they're all "good" or "fast" they all have their share of their bad reviews.  I'll hear all the time how some new client of mine "hates" some lender that I actually have a good rep with so, it's really all up to the loan officer at the lender.  Are they on top of your loan?  They fighting for you?  Are they reporting back on your loan?  Are things moving fast or are you waiting weeks and weeks?  Someone may love Lender ABC and someone may hate them.  I'll bet those two have different loan officers.  Again, it all depends on them because what if you found a new loan officer who doesn't know what they are doing?  What if you found some loan officer who isn't looking for one-offs, he's looking for the 5+ guys each year and he puts you to the back burner.  I like to be fair, honest, and responsive.  I owe my clients at least that much for the commission.
  • Fees & Hidden Costs – Have you ever encountered unexpected fees or unclear terms? How do you avoid them?  Yes, sadly, this happens.  I can tell you a story of a Canadian Investor of mine that I lined up a fix n flip deal for in the Philly market.  I got him terms for 70% on purchase.  After UW it was trimmed to 65%, and then a day before the close they went down to 60% because they didn't like the state of the market at the time.  Turns out they were right, the house sold for 35% off it's bridge loan ARV.  They should be no hidden fees from a lender.  There is Origination and then some kind of service fee that will encompass legal, processing, underwriting, etc.  There are hidden fees at closing in terms of settlement though, transfer tax, school taxes, there's doc charges and fees from the title company.  Charge for holding the escrow.  Lots of things you do not expect and they actually add to the cost of the deal and that's why it is really. really hard to find a sub 70% ARV project cost when you add it all up.
  • Communication & Support – Are they responsive and transparent, or do they disappear when issues come up? I been through some hairy situations, as hard as it is you can't flake.  Not if you care about your character.  I've come out of my own pocket to help client's rehab jobs that were stalled.  I've kicked back commission.  I take calls on the weekends and nights.  I advise, consult, help set-up.  You have to make yourself useful.

 Mike - a true expert.  Thanks for the insight. 

Post: Don’t Let Funding Hold You Back

Garry MillerPosted
  • Developer
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 3

HI Leslie - what's your email?