All Forum Posts by: Ivor Grisel

The math seems to add up. The 25% down in combination with lower house value when it is rented is what is the challenge here (as in The Netherlands). But my property manager told me that the house in rented state is taxated based mostly on the rental income... So if you do a check on woonfonds, you can get an idea what it would be worth there. But be aware: you should probably calculate the value based on the rents set by the huurcommissie. 

So for example, we have an appartment with 4 students. Each of them pays 250 (some of them a bit more, but I think the huurcommissie would boil down to all of them 250). If you do the check on Woonfonds, I get a guestimated value of rented state of 260k. 70% of that is 182k. That is actually what we paid for it. 

So it might be good to have somebody tax it in rented state to see what it actually is worth according to them. That value that you got (227k) might be higher. 

That being said, be aware that you need to carry the mortgage. If we would get a mortgage for 182k, the rents wouldn't cover it. So the rent on the next property would have to cover a part of that. 

Hope this info helps a bit! Let me know how it ends up!

@Brendan McElroy Welcome to the forums! Where are you from and what brings you to the Netherlands? Also, what is your investing focus? Specific real estate? Area? 

Looking forward to sharing knowledge!

@Brendan McElroy I didn't like the changes either. Luckily, they are proposed changes and not final yet. There is probably a lot of people against the changes. That being said, it is good to know that this is coming, so you can take it into account when buying it. But I also did a check: paying down a mortgage highers the amount that you need to pay for Box 3, but the amount the monthly payment for the mortgage costs goes down harder. So it is still good to pay it down. And like you said, pull it out for the next investment. 

@Brendan McElroy

I believe that is the way the taxes work now. That being said, the new changes that are being proposed would change that. I'm not sure about the calculation specifics, but Box 3 assets will be taxed higher. I believe the plan is to do that from 2021/2022 forward. The plans aren't final yet and from what I heard from Vastgoed Belang (the REA here in the Netherlands), a lot of people are fighting against the changes.

If you want to know how it would affect your portfolio, you can check berekenhet: https://www.berekenhet.nl/sparen-en-beleggen/voorstel-hervorming-box-3-2022.html. For me, it boiled down to about 1000 per year. Not that bad. But be sure to check it!

Hey Sunciree, welkom op het forum! En jij ook Tiago!

Switching to English 😁 so there are actually meetups in the Netherlands. There are two big ones that I know of. Check my website: whetstonevastgoed.nl, one of the posts on the first steps that I took. 

I'm a rookie investor, but if you have any questions, be sure to hit me up. I'm more than happy to help.

Ivor

@Stef Schuil @Jelmer Hilhorst

So it is possible to get a mortgage for rental use. Like Stef says, the downpayment on those is most of the time about 20/30%. Be aware: that is 20/30% of the object in rented state, which is mostly lower than the actual value of the object. So maybe even calculate a 30-45% down.

That being said, there a possibilities. For example, for our first rental, we took a second "regular" mortgage on our house. So that leaves us with a rental that has no mortgage on it. We are planning on putting a mortgage on that, and using that money for either a downpayment of a second rental, or maybe as the complete payment.

But there are other possibilities. I talked to a financial expert which does mortgages from Germany. Don't know the complete details yet, but interest rates are better there. But they only do refinances and initial buys, so no liquidation (= getting money out of a property that doesn't have a mortgage on it...).

I'm also just starting (one rental), so no expert. But I hope this helps! But also be sure to get in contact with investors that have relationships with financial people that can provide you with other options.

Just a side note: we don't have negative interest rates on most mortgages. There is a very specific subset of mortgages that were able to become negative. Those are older mortgages that had strange arrangements. It won't happen with a mortgage you can get now.

I recently talked to my property manager and he mentioned that he has a contact which can arrange German mortgages for me, even though I'm a Dutch citizen. I haven't been able to follow up on that (mostly because I'm just getting down from my first property being bought), but it seems possible to do it across boundaries... If I've talked to the financial professional, I can get back to you on German terms. But looking forward to any info on this from somebody else!

Great! And be sure to hit me up for any questions you have!

Can't really tell you which strategy to use. It really depends on where you want to invest. Arnhem and Nijmegen area great student cities, but rules are getting more strict. So maybe some of the other cities like Apeldoorn might be better options. 

If you want to do a successful BRRRR, you will have to find a below market deal. You almost won't find those on Funda (= MLS-ish in Netherlands), so you'll have to see if you can find off market deals, which brings me back to my last point: network.

My personal experience with Vastgoedbeheer Gelderland is very positive. They might be able to help out with your possibilities.

House hacking might work, but really depends on what you can find. We don't have that many duplexes, so you would be dependent on appartment sharing/splitting. But delve into the rules for that. 

You should also check if you can house hack with a regular mortgage in your personal house. Some banks don't allow you to do that. So you might have to get a verhuurhypotheek (= rental mortgage) which means more money up front.

So there is no best strategy, as it depends on so many things: location, money available, network, etc. It's the same as they mention in the podcasts: it depends and get what works in one area doesn't in the other. But I can't stress enough: network with local investors, property managers and such. They can help you with your local market. 

Hey Jelmer,

Welcome to the forums! I agree with the other replies. But as you are based in the Netherlands, be aware that there are other rules that apply here. The concepts are the same, but we're a bit less flexible. 

You can check out my blog at www.whetstonevastgoed.nl where I'm documenting my RE journey (in Dutch). Check out the first step posts, where I mention the meetups. Very valuable for networking.

Which brings me to the most important thing: networking. I haven't found an active/visible community for the Netherlands as here (mostly because we're smaller, but also because we don't like to talk about money as easily - "doe maar normaal, doe je al gek genoeg"), so that's where the meetups come in. Also, find somebody that you are comfortable with discussing the topics of investing that is already doing it. I have found a great sparring partner in a local property manager and his business partner. Hoping to extend my knowledge and network through them.

Oh yeah, get your savings going. Without getting into details, prepare to have to put down about 30/40% with an investment mortgage.

In which area are you based and where would you like to invest?

Again welcome, and if you have any questions, hit me up!