All Forum Posts by: Jason Moore

Hi Amy,

Thanks for contributing. I know that the majority of PM's did not earn a law degree (myself included!), but I also know that the majority of PM's don't charge a minimum of $350/hour for their services. The point still stands - if you expect work on top of the original Contract... you have to compensate the Professional for their time (not at $350/hour for a PM though) ;)

I'm not sure where you inferred that the properties I manage have problems (which let's be honest - at some point all properties have issues), rather I'm providing examples of things we do for/shield the Client from in the course of our duties. As far as $90/month for all of the services we provide - in addition to handling items above & beyond those services for free... I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that issue.

One thing I can agree on is - let's stop hijacking the thread, and provide OP with the information she sought to look for. As someone who dedicates the time to consider & understand what an Investor/Client is requesting - I'm fairly confident in saying that advising someone who lives 4000 miles from Kansas City to attend and network at a local Real Estate Investors Meeting.... won't accomplish what they're asking. I'll plan on reaching out to OP by private message to see if I can help.

Cheers.

That's actually an argument I hear from time-to-time, and on the surface... I can see why it's made. In reality, the monthly fee that an Owner pays to a PM goes to making sure the rent gets collected (we only get our % when it is) - but it also goes to: Invoicing that tenant (printing & mailing) if rent isn't paid. Taking sob-story filled phone calls about why it's late, and explaining that no - the late fee cannot be forgiven. Having contacts in every field (not just handymen) who will answer your call at 2am because a furnace stopped working (heck it also goes to the person who took that 2am phone call from the tenant in the first place - while the Owner was sleeping). Having someone who will physically be at your property every month for an exterior inspection. Having someone who will schedule an interior inspection if things don't seem kosher. Having someone who can be at your property in 30 minutes when a call from the Fire Inspector comes in at 4am (this has happened twice in the past 2 years). Having someone who pays any/all minor maintenance bills for you over the month - and then provides you with a detailed report. Having redundancies for keeping record of all tenant calls/messages by email in the event you as the Owner question an item. 

The average rent on a SFH inside city limits of KCMO is about $900.00. Sure, there are a few outliers that skew higher & lower, but if we're ballparking - that's the number. The argument is that a Client should get my "discounted" (no upcharge to them) rate, because they're paying me $90 bucks per month for everything listed above? A plumber from the Yellow-pages won't even drive to a house & park his truck there for less than $75 bucks. My Clients are getting tenant infrastructure (phone systems, reporting systems, website access), physical inspections, rent collection, invoicing (both Tenant & Owner) and an on-call Representative available 24/7 for emergencies for about the same amount. The argument that you're making is that now someone has to answer maintenance calls, troubleshoot by phone with the Tenant, schedule with the Tenant & Contractor if necessary, follow-up to ensure work was done, handle payment on the Clients behalf and invoice them once a month - for free??

At the end of the day, businesses that need small amounts of consistent legal work put an Attorney on "retainer". In return, they receive exactly that - small amounts of consistent work. When that same business needs to go to Court over a matter - not one reasonable person expects that Attorney to put in his/her extra time for "free", because the company is already "paying a monthly fee". Why is the PM profession any different? 

Cheers.

@Barry H.

No. Just.... No.

1) Tenant maintenance calls are a PITA, and one of the most hated aspects of my job. A decent Property Manager will work to "bullet-proof" any property maintenance-wise, because the peanuts we make on maintenance calls (see below) aren't worth the time spent scheduling/invoicing/accounting.

2) My company uses the "Costco" method of charging for maintenance. Need a pest-treatment for your rental? You'll go to the yellow-pages and find the lowest price you can pay is $115.00 for a full treatment plus German Roach control in Kansas City (assuming you're not on a plan). Me - I have agreements worked out with local Contractors to do the same service for $100.00, because I "buy in bulk" as a Management Company. I charge my Clients $115.00, because I have overhead that needs to be paid for - scheduling with Tenant/Contractor, phone support, follow-up, invoicing, etc. My Clients pay no more than they would pay by doing the leg-work themselves... only they don't have to do it.

3) Kickbacks from service people - what kickbacks are there to be taken? When you as the Client can call a Contractor to have them quote for a job, the price we charge becomes pretty transparent. Again, if they charge you $115.00 for a job - but only charge me $100.00 because I provide them with volume work... I don't see an issue with asking for $15.00 for: taking the tenant call, scheduling with the Contractor, scheduling with the Tenant, following up to make sure work was done, paying the Contractor without hassling the Client, accounting for all money spent, invoicing the Client once per month, waiting for Client payment, etc. 

A good Property Manager doesn't work alone... and that $15.00 from 1 maintenance call doesn't go very far when you set the properties up to need as little maintenance as possible. We have infrastructure & overhead to maintain just like any business... and make no mistake - we are in the business of customer-service (both for the Tenant & the Client). Phone systems, on-call Contractors, website, accounting, monthly statements, inspections - if you aren't willing to be 100% hands-on with your Investment, you're going to have to understand the need to compensate a capable PM to handle these things for you on a daily basis.

I get it that you've had some bad experiences with Property Managers - but when you say "EVERY ONE of them is..." you do a dis-service to the Landlord/Investor community. There are bad eggs in every profession (even yours, whatever it may be) - but I wouldn't presume to label you one of them without at least giving you the benefit of the doubt. 

I don't post often, but I feel that I've given some fairly helpful & impartial advice when I have. I'd never advise someone that I'm "100% sure" on any topic - there's always something that can be learned. I have Clients that have gone through several PM's before settling in with my Company for years (and being happy they did so) - I'd hate to pass a blanket judgment on anyone who's in the same situation.

Cheers.

Hey Nick,

I present them the Lease whenever they ask for it. If they ask 20-days prior to move-in, they get it then. If they don't ask until move-in - they get it during our signing appointment. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a thorough/strict lease, but keep in mind that no Lease can supercede local/state/federal law. Because my Lease has been written in accordance with all 3 of those - I've no problem sharing it at any time. If, after remitting the deposit, they are uncomfortable with any of the terms of the Lease - then I'd simply point out that it complies with/adheres to all pertinent statutes. If they still have an issue with the Lease, and then have an issue with me keeping their deposit because my document holds them to Court-upheld statutes.... then I'm happy to have a Judge decide where the deposit money should go.

So far, it's never happened. If you have a prospect who's not willing to sign a document that simply outlines the responsibilities of each party in accordance with the law - that's not someone who ever needs to become a tenant. Sure... I suppose there may come a day when someone takes me to Court over a kept deposit, and perhaps I'll lose because I wasn't overly forthcoming with the document itself (simply waiting for them to ask) - but I'll place many good tenants with the procedure I have in place before that day comes!

Best to you!

Hey Nick... a few things:

1. Never apologize for being an entrepreneur... it's always a learning process - keep on learning.

2. You've received some tremendously good advice here - listen to it.

3. I collect a convertible "Holding Deposit" for any unit I hold for a tenant - for any length of time. If they commit to signing the Lease Agreement within a specified period (usually 30 days max), I convert this "Holding Deposit" to the Security Deposit (fully refundable, minus items above normal wear/tear). If they don't commit... it becomes Non-Refundable, and I keep it to compensate Clients for lost marketing (I let any future incoming leads know that the property is in "backup" status). Until I get this deposit - the property is not rented, and continues to be marketed/shown as fully available.

4. Have your prospect sign a form with all pertinent language that explains what the Holding Deposit gives them (sole option to rent, so long as they sign the Lease and are compliant with terms within a certain time-frame). If they don't follow through... keep it as legal damages.

This one sucks... but move on. Best to you!

Check your State's Landlord/Tenant Statutes. Most will require you (as Landlord) to "mitigate damages". This means that you have a responsibility to attempt to re-rent the unit as soon as it is ready/able. Once it is rented, you can legally seek a judgment against the former tenant for all costs associated with re-rental (any loss of rents, utility costs, marketing costs, etc.).

Bottom line - NO, I would not refund this tenant's deposit here in Missouri. I would keep it... and seek additional damages (not physical, but monetary) if they applied.

Best to you!

Cut, print, send - this was all I needed to see to know that you handled the situation beautifully. Well done.

Best to you!

Forgot to mention....

NO..... at least in Missouri - you cannot file for eviction if you accept/cash any payment of rent. The Court will view this as you accepting to renew the Lease Terms based on the existing Agreement (typically a payment of rent, and the Landlord's acceptance of said payment - constitutes a continuity of the Lease).

Apologies for the CAPS, Italics and underlines - just using them to emphasize points... don't want you to think I'm yelling at you over the interwebs!

Best to you!

Not a lawyer, but... a few pieces of advice in your situation:

1. Speak with an attorney about the type of case you want to file. Here in Missouri, when a tenant stays past a notice to vacate (not behind on rent, just want them out in accordance with lease terms) we don't file a typical eviction (rent/possession). We file an unlawful detainer. The primary difference being that we can seek twice the standard rental payment for each month the tenant does not relinquish possession of the unit (as opposed to seeking the standard monthly rental rate for rent/possession).

2. Goes without saying, but... make sure you have rights to terminate the tenancy (check your lease). I see that you're on month-to-month... but double-check for certainty.

3. DO NOT sell the appliances, regardless of whether they are part of the lease. If they are - you are now in breach (which a Judge will look very unfavorably upon). If they are not, your tenant (who is still residing in your Asset) will be extremely unhappy - and may seek retribution.

4. Don't start renovations. See the last sentence in the previous item - you don't want to have your nice, newly renovated home damaged by an unhappy occupant.

5. "The lease says I can enter the property at any time": I've said this on this site more than a few times - It doesn't matter what your Lease says.... your Lease doesn't supersede the law. I could write a clause that states I can cut off a tenants hand for being late on rent. They could willingly sign that lease - and I'll still be arrested for battery for enforcing it. Check with an Attorney in your area. If you have a relationship with one they'll answer 30 minutes of questions for free. If you don't... they'll likely still answer 5 minutes of questions  for free - and this only takes 1.

Bottom line, sounds like you have an open relationship with your tenant at this point (you're able to reach her to speak). Approach this from 2 fronts: Absolutely file the unlawful detainer the day after the notice to vacate has expired.... but inform her that you've done so. Make it clear that the case can be dismissed, and no harm done - all she has to do is leave. Worst case, you have at least started the clock ticking - best case... she moves on amicably to avoid the matter being settled by the Court on record.

Hope everything works out, best to you.

Hi Andrew. Depending on what you're looking for, and where your properties are located - I may be able to offer you Management services. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Best to you.