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All Forum Posts by: John Clien

John Clien has started 2 posts and replied 5 times.

Hi,

I haven't quite found anyone else who has shared their Roofstock One experience in the forums - there are a few posts talking about the general Roofstock experience, but not their "fully managed, buy shares" program for accredited investors, so I'd thought I share my short experience to date and hope others can also share.

First to clarify, RoofstockONE is different from Roofstock in that you are not actually purchasing the property yourself - you are buying a SHARE and collectively buying the property that will be fully managed "by Roofstock".  (Simplifying things a bit here).

I bought my first "share" in summer of this year - so it's been about 4 months (as of Nov 2019). Property located near Atlanta, GA - a SFH of about $150K, target IRR of 10%-14%. I bought 1 share (out of 10), and the share price was about $7K (50% financing built-in). The purchasing process was relatively smooth - sign a bunch of documents online, verify that you are an accredited investor. Then you wire the money, they acknowledge the receipt of money, then.... nothing. This pattern of nothing after wiring money usually gives you the alarm bells, but I didn't see it as such (for various reasons) so decided to play the "wait and see" game.

Literally nothing for months (beyond the standard marketing emails).  No email or guidance on what happens next on the purchased share.  There isn't really even a dashboard in the website - just a table stating you have 1 share of this property purchased at a particular date.  For months, held off the urge to contact them.

Then suddenly in middle of November(4 months after), I see my first distribution in the bank of about $100! (around the 45 day mark after Q3 close).  There was no email or communication from Roofstock on when I might be receiving distributions, so pleasant surprise (although it's expected in a sense).  With some activity finally from this, a few days later, I decided to contact them and ask whether there is going to be any kind of statement that corresponds to the distribution, a "investor dashboard", or... something/anything.  TLDR answer from them was a "no, but we're working on it".

My experience overall as you might imagine is "underwhelming".  Communication is lacking, software is lacking, and you can tell they are new at this.  Meanwhile, it looks like they are busy trying to find more ways to monetize their base - like building their "roofstockacademy" and charging $1700+ for it.  I wish they would put those resources in enhancing their product to some baseline... but perhaps they might make less (short-term) money that way.

Other analysis is that these properties are not really "cheap".  In real estate, one of the biggest way to make money is when you are buying the property - most of the properties (on both Roofstock and the RoofstockONE program) are either "at market" or sometimes above market (depending on what source you use to determine "market").  I'm sure some of you might have found great deals but I have yet to see a great deal.

I'm not really regretting my initial $7K investment - I have over $200K in other Real Estate Crowdfunding sites, not to mention other traditional real estate assets. I wanted to see how well this RoofstockOne program works... and for now, it's not working too well for me from a product/offering perspective. The actual returns might be okay but way too early to tell (and hard to analyze with no details forthcoming from them). At this point, my ongoing investment will likely focus on other CRE sites and/or going directly to sponsors.

Does anyone else have experience with Roofstock One?

John.

Thanks for the continuing input.

@John Corey - good point on the leverage.  Some people talk about how in stock market you can use margin accounts which would be the equivalent of getting mortgage & leverage.  But at least personally to me using margin accounts feel much more risky due to margin call... it's like if the real estate market prices decrease, suddenly the mortgage company can ask you to put down $100K more or they will forcibly sell your home even if you are paying the monthly payment... that's crazy (p.s I don't personally have margin accounts so this might not be accurate - just my understanding).

@Bernard Reisz - it does make me feel a bit better... and realistically 2 years moving back is hard enough, no way will I move back into the house for 5 years.  Which leaves me with the 1031 exchange option if I were to sell (which majority here doesn't think is a good idea).  I guess one option if I were to sell would be opportunity zone investments, but not quite an expert there (or any real experience in that).

Thanks for the advices.

Thanks for the insight and perspectives.  It looks like right now the general advise seems to be keep the property and do the appreciation play and not focus too much on cashflow.

@John Corey - great reference on Warren Buffet.  You're right - his perspective was that diversification is for ignorant people, and that he preferred to understand a particular industry/company really deep, and make bets based on knowledge and research.  With real estate being very local (even hyperlocal), that quote does have a lot of relevance.  SF is indeed land-constrained like you said.  As long as more people come in than leaving, you're right that it might be better to keep the property and use insurance and other means of de-risking for some black swan events than selling the property.

@Amit M. - I think your point on people who didn't hold the property 10 years ago might depend on what they did with the proceeds.  In a somewhat biased view, if they bought S&P ETF at the bottom in 2009 (i.e. 10 years ago) with the proceeds, they would have seen an even higher growth on stocks (2X - 4X, depending on when in 2019) than they would have seen with SF real estate prices.  However, if they simply cashed out and did nothing (or invested in things that didn't appreciate as much, including buying property in areas that saw less appreciation), then most certainly they would have regretted it.  We can't really time the stock market and right now the stock market is all time high, so that stock comparison might not be valid.  I think you do have a point as with John that if we are purely talking about real estate, then keeping the SF property might be a good idea for the appreciation plan.

Thanks for the perspectives!

John

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the response!  You have good point on the home sales capital gains exclusion.  Unfortunately I've been renting this out for over 5 years so I unfortunately can't take advantage of that.  Also for me taking it back from tenant and living there myself for 2 years isn't quite realistic, so it looks like my only option is 1031 exchange.

Yes, $12K/year for a $1M asset is pretty horrible... Not sure how much more appreciation I can expect here, with Uber/Lyft/Slack/Pinterest/WeWork all having a miserable IPO (WeWork didn't even make it to IPO).  Longer term though, like with most real estate in US, it should appreciate, but short term looks dicey.

Thanks for the suggestion.

John

Hi,

I am looking for some advice on how I might go about diversifying my assets, specifically around real estate. I feel that I am not diversified enough - and looking for opinions here.

Currently, my real estate consists of about 36% of my assets, a big portion of it is a single-family home rental (which used to be my primary residence) in the San Francisco area. Breakdown looks like this:

    • * San Francisco: $750K equity (About $1.1M estimate with $350K mortgage, bought it at $500K). Current cashflow is about $1K / month ($3.7K rental - mortgage/taxes/expenses).
    • * Texas: $150K equity (About $200K estimate with $50K mortgage, bought it at $150K). Cashflow at about $300 / month ($1.7K rental - various_expenses)

    Other than “pure” real estate:

    • * Crowdfunding real estate: About $200K in various (core, value-add, opportunistic). Just started this year.
    • * $800K of stocks in taxable account. Mostly diversified into VTI
    • * $600K in 401k, in some miscellaneous combination of FFNOX and a few others.
    • (No bonds. Not much in cash other than emergency reserves)

    Top of my mind right now is whether I should do anything about the San Francisco rental home. Should I keep as is?  Should I 1031 exchange and buy a property (or two) elsewhere?  Liquidate and put into high dividend stocks/ETF (although with sky-high stock price yields are low...)?

    I’m about 40 years old, and do have a reasonable normal(salary) income of about $200K, but looking to hopefully semi-retire in a few years if I can, although need a few more sources of passive income as of right now.

    Disaster scenario in my head is… stock markets crash(loss of stock equity), along with the tech scene here in California collapse (loss of job/rental price decline or vacancies increase), and adding icing to the cake with perhaps some earthquake affecting my real estate here (we are long due for a big one).

    Feeling a bit paranoid but would rather intentionally decide what to do, whether to keep or to diversify.  Any suggestions from fellow investors & readers on what you might do?

    Thanks,

    John