All Forum Posts by: John Clark

Situation: 
Year 2007 - Looking at a VERY old at the time 2nd lien Mortgage on a residential property in Illinois.
The 2nd lien Mortgage & Note was made back in 2007 by the lender on this investment property many years ago and sat behind a BIGGER Wells Fargo 1st lien. The property was SOLD to a BUYER "subject to" both loans a few years later 

Year 2000- That 2nd lien ENTITY that HELD the mortgage and Note was involuntary dissolved in 2000 and they did not REINSTATE the entity.

PROBLEM:
Year 2014- The 2nd lien Note  was never paid and the lender did not take any actions to enforce their rights for many years.
The Wells Fargo 1st lien eventually PAID OFF IN FULL (thereby sliding the non collected 2nd Mortgage lien into a PRIORITY lien Position)
in 2014 the property was purchased and was transferred again. That buyer continued to IGNORE the 2nd lien and did not make any payments on it. 

Year 2020 a Formal Attorney generated DEMAND letter was sent by the holder or the 2nd lien Mortgage & Note which had now GROWN to a much larger Balance (sum) due TO the property owner making a demand for payment.  

Also at this time in 2020 the property owners filed a Complaint and brought a QUIET TITLE Action Motion for Summary Judgment against the 1st lien Mortgage Note holder (remember originally was a Subordinate 2nd lien that then slid into 1st lien position when the 1st lien was paid off in full around 2014). Their arguments were # 1  that a NON EXISTING ENTITY cannot bring a collection action and # 2 well over 20 years of time had gone by with no attempts to collect on the Debt owed to the Mortgage and Note holder.  

Year 2020 later on in the year; The Court Granted a SUMMARY JUDGEMENT over their compliant filed to Quiet Title BY the property owner against the defendant (the 2nd lien Mortgage Holder who had become a 1st lien) 

2025 TODAY - now this former 2nd lien Mortgage & Note holder (who slid into 1st lien position) wishes to SELL their Mortgage and Note position for a STEEP Discount. 

QUESTION:
Would you advance cash to them to purchase their alleged 1st lien Mortgage and Note and touch this
in an attempt to collect on it or not and WHY ?

There's a lot of negative coverage with ICE raids in Chicago and I'm wondering how much it is effecting buying and selling activity locally or for investors. I have a SFH for sale in a south suburb of Matteson, IL. It's been quieter than expected. Anyone else in Chicago with a take on the current state of Real estate in this area?

Hey everyone,

I bought a duplex in Dayton, Ohio in Sept 2024 that came with an existing tenant. The inherited lease had a strange clause:
- The tenant had a right of first refusal to match any bona fide offer before lease-end, and
- Rent and upkeep expenses (like mowing) would count toward the purchase price if he bought the property.

In Nov 2024, I told the tenant I wouldn't be renewing the lease (ending April 2025). Instead of moving out, he sued me and my LLC (pro se), claiming:
- Breach of contract, promissory estoppel, specific performance, declaratory and injunctive relief,
- Plus $15K in “equity”, arguing that rent and expenses made him a tenant-in-common.

He also claimed a right to renew, though the lease clearly said renewal required mutual agreement. He initially added a Fair Housing claim (based on me seeing menorahs in the unit) but dropped it later.

My attorney filed a motion to dismiss, but it was untouched in court for 5 months. The tenant then amended his complaint, forcing us to refile. Meanwhile, my attorney recommends holding off on eviction until the civil case wraps up, since the eviction would likely be stayed anyway.

Legal fees are around $5K so far, and the tenant’s messages have become harassing, including threats like:
- "If I have to sue you and your Llc, it will tie you up in court for 1 to 2 years. You can avoid this by working with me and being sensible. What are your thoughts on this? You can either be a man and work out a deal or be foolish and spent tons of money and time and lose control of the property all for your ego... You can either sacrifice a little money or let me stay for another year or get tied up in a 1 to 2 year court battle that you can't win."
- "Be a man, Paul, not a weakling. Discuss this with me like an adult. Come to a win win or fail. Maybe you don't get it. I've worked in the law profession for over 20 years. I know my rights and how to protect them. Do the right thing Paul, or face the system."
- "Don't trust your Legal Shield attorney. She is incompetent.... Her law school testing results were awful."

Questions for the group:
1. Would you wait on eviction or file anyway?
2. Any chance of recovering attorney fees in this type of case?
3. Would a counterclaim or declaratory action help clear this up faster?

Appreciate any insight — especially from Ohio landlords or anyone who’s dealt with a tenant turning a lease clause into a lawsuit.

Looking for more advice as I'm struggling to find a living solution.  I'm trying to manage and rent 5 units all by myself- which has turned out to be way more work than I imagined, and the money has never been particularly good.   In fact its been quite a lot of stress and long hours, especially lately.   

Part of the low money reason is I very quickly found that 5 units is all the deeper I want to get into property management.
Housing humans I have found is unpredictable.  They can be unreasonable, unfair, lie..... sometimes damage property or bring in pests--- and they don't stay- the continual vacancies and renovations are the biggest hit.
I can do this, but I just don't want to get in any deeper.    The idea was always to have a second business, but that just hasn't materialized and I can never get caught up.
I've also been at this for a number of years now, but seem to be stagnated and going nowhere.   I need to pivot, but haven't found a solution yet.  

Right now one of my immediate problems is something I've never faced before, and is unexpectedly driving me crazy..  
After vetting very carefully I ended up offering my studio apartment to a woman with 2 cats.     She makes a big fuss about them- even has a cat mat in front of the apartment, and on.    But I checked her previous rental and she kept it clean and took care of them, so gambled on her.
What I got was something totally unexpected.  

This woman keeps a clean apartment, takes care of her pets, that's all good.   But she pays short on rent.   She's done this three times now.   I've never seen anything like this before.

She continually pays $10 less than the stated amount on the lease.
Let me say first:
As an incentive, I give tenants $20 off rent if they pay ontime.  I've done this for years.   Surprisingly, this usually results in everyone paying on the 1st, and with my slim budget, its necessary.   It also makes a nice sales pitch when trying to fill vacant apartments.   The system works, and I'm OK with it.

The first month she paid $10 short, I told her if she got the missing $10 in by bank close on the 1st, she can get the discount and avoid owing $30.   $10 to save $30.  Makes logical sense right.
She went back to the bank, and deposited the $10.    All was good.

The following month:  She paid $10 short again!   Again I messaged her about it.   This is not the rent stated on the lease, and you need to make complete rent to avoid any late fees.
This time she tells me, its too late to go to the bank, I can deposit it in the morning.   Trying to be nice, I make an exception:  Okay, if you can complete the rent payment first thing in the morning, we'll still give you the ontime discount.  Even though rent wasn't on time right.    
She pays the $10.

My reward the following month for letting the rules go, was she didn't pay rent at all.
I usually message everyone on the morning of the 1st to remind them to get the ontime discount, they need to get rent in by bank close.
I message her.

"The bank is closed?" is her reply.  "Well then I'll have to get rent in 1st thing tomorrow morning!"
"No no, the banks are open, all 3 branches", was my reply.  I passed on the bank phone number.
"I'm so glad I checked with you.  Now you can complete rent ontime, and get the discount."

Bank closes, and no rent payment at all.
OK this is extremely weird.

So I call her, and explain about the ontime discount.
She complains about the tenants upstairs, saying they brought in roaches.   
"They told me they're moving out", was my weary reply, anticipating the mountain of work ahead for me, to renovate their trashed apartment.   The people upstairs are indeed, unclean.    But they have always paid rent, and I've dreaded the long renovation after they leave.... and so I've endured it.
"I'll have to keep my cats at a friends house until then" was her reply.  

My response was to immediately schedule a roach spraying, which of course I'm doing myself.
Set it for next week.  Sent announcement to all tenants.  I could not be addressing this faster right.
"What about the rent?"  I ask her
"Oh I'll pay that in the morning", is her reply.

The next day she pays rent, late.   But she pays $10 LESS than the discounted on-time rent, again.
I text her:  Please complete the rent, you need to pay $30 this time, as its both late and short.
She doesn't.

Finally, having no other option, I mail her the 5 Day Notice.  This is the notice in Illinois which states their lease rights can be suspended at the expiry of 5 days if they don't pay rent, standard fare.
Being nice again the 5 Day Notice- Incomplete Rent states:   If you pay the $30 by October 9th, there will be no late fee.  If it is not paid by then, there will be a $20 late fee and tenant will owe $50.

The 9th comes and goes.  She pays nothing.

I'm now looking out of 5 apartments, vital for my income survival.  1 is currently vacant, I am trying to fill.
The second, the roachy people upstairs, who have told me they plan to move out next month, which will be a massive ordeal to renovate clean and re-rent.
And this woman, #3.   I am up against the wall.  I mailed her the 5 day notice, saying she must complete her rent, and she won't.

Do I file for eviction over $10?
Then I may be looking at 3 out of 5 of my apartments, vacant.   Talk about stressful, right.
But if I don't do anything, this basically tells her she can pay less than the stated rent, from now on.  Which is a disaster in itself. Not to mention the other tenants may find out, and start doing it too.

What would you do?

Hello! I just did my first deal 4 months ago! I bought a duplex that I am currently house hacking. I live in the top unit with a roommate that I rent a room to. The bottom unit is a midterm rental that has been booked ever since I started it. Everything has been going well with the duplex. Clean tenants, low maintenance, and I even cash flow a little bit too! Because of the low maintenance I feel bored. I don't have enough money to purchase another deal right now, but I've been saving money from my full time job and the cashflow to buy my next deal hopefully next summer. I'm only 20 years old and I'm hungry to grow my portfolio! What can I do in the meantime to keep my real estate investing journey rolling?

Thanks,

Colin Frank

Hey, 

I have been reading these blogs for a long time.  This is a great site. 

Post Demo Dust

I hired a GC to perform demolition in Chicago, my home.  Per the code, I don't need a permit for 1,000 SF of plaster. 

They did the demo but did not protect my furnace in the basement or took any other dust control measures.  Cleaning is $700, at least.   I have two furnaces, one in the second floor.  The one in the basement is my main concern.  

The dust expanded everywhere, we have been cleaning for weeks  

They took no measures to protect against dust.  I have a basic contract, it doesn't carry any dust protection description, just notes demo.   

A few notes, please. 

This is for Chicago.  No need to comment on your own location/jurisdiction, please.   I am looking for Chicago-specific feedback. 

No need to comment on other contaminants within the dust.  Please, don't.

Is dust protection assumed as part of the work?  

Should I file an insurance claim or absorb the ongoing cleaning costs and move on. 

I have kids and we moved out for a few weeks to clean up.  Everything was covered with dust. 

Should I just suck it up?

Thanks for your help, this has been a bit hard.  

I've been using "Subject To" and other various creative techniques for over thirty years and I've learned a few things along the way that may make it easier and less risky if you are trying to use them yourself.

1) First, there is no such thing as "zero down". It can be "little" down or "someone else's money down" but don't make the mistake of thinking you don't have to have some skin in the game. I allocate $25,000 per property and rarely exceed that. Compare that to having to put 20% down on a house using bank financing which on a $200,000 property is about $40,000 plus closing costs and carrying costs. I am "all in" at $25,000 and I get most, if not all, of that back from the Tenant Buyer I sell to. I generally cash flow my properties, some people rehab, some "buy & hold" - all using Subject To.

2) Order a Title Report on every property - it is insane not to and they generally run $50 to $60. I didn't say Title Insurance, I said Title Report.

3) Use Escrow to close. Table closings are a thing of the past. The risk is not worth it. Escrow can run to $1,500 or so, but a lawsuit can run $25,000 to $150,000.

4) Have reserves. You need to have on hand or access to enough to cover the underlying mortgage, utilities, HOA and various carrying costs in the event the house goes vacant for a few months. You affect the credit of the person who's property you are taking "Subject To". If you start missing payments and messing up their credit they can sue you. Oh yeah, they didn't mention that on the late night TV ad or the "Two Hour" real estate investor seminar you went to, did they? It's a serious business and you have to take it seriously.

5) Decide your exit strategy before you buy the property.

6) Record the Deed. Omygosh, what about Due on Sale? It is possible that the deed could be called, but I've done more of these than I can remember and I've had only two called. Don't try to hide ownership in a Land Trust. If it looks suspicious, they will dig deeper when they sue you. There is a proper way to do this step and most people won't take the time to learn or somehow think they are immune to it.

7) Know your options in the event that the Deed does in fact get called. There are several options, many of which put money in your pocket.

If this is useful and you want more, let me know.

Your question  @John Clark  "Tell us, Ken, is the buyer supposed to record his deed?"" 
Why yes, @John Clark: "Professionals Always record the deed. It would be foolish not to. Any good trainer teaches that.

Did you know that if you buy a $400,000 property . . .

In a typically bank financing scenario you put down 20% or $80,000 and finance $320,000 for 30 years the Principal and Interest at 7% is $2,129 and over 30 years you pay $766,428 (the bank loves you)

BUT

if you take over a loan using a Wrap (Wrap To, it takes about $15,000 in costs) and take over the existing mortgage at 2.5% that was taken out 2 years ago your payment Principal and Interest is $1,264 ($865 a month less) and over the remaining 28 years pay $447,894 (you get to keep the difference)

That's a savings of $318,534 Three times a Year! For 5 years and you are RICH!

Who doesn’t want to do that!

Retire Early and move from CA to FL Uhaul will love you ;-)

When you are new, looking for lenders & considering Fix & Flip, BRRRR, or rental, as a buyer, I’d ask the owner/seller to be one of my private lenders with creative financing. This works in Southern California (CA), AZ, WA, and TX.