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All Forum Posts by: Jonathan Greene

Jonathan Greene has started 256 posts and replied 6060 times.

Post: Don't Become a Property Hoarder or a Door Counter

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Your goals change. In the beginning, it's all about buying more deals with not much capital and frankly, maybe that's not the worst thing, because you learn a lot. Probably even more from the bad deals..

Long term you are better off with better real estate. Financially, but also mentally. Fortunately, I was thinning my herd back in I think 2014 or so by getting rid of a few (experimental) investments in cheaper neighborhoods. They were not terrible, some people would call them C minus, and it wasn't even that much about financial considerations at the time (appreciation was not a thing back then in Milwaukee) but just not what I wanted to own or manage, so I sold them to them tenants - after quite a bit of financial coaching to get them to qualify for a loan.

My standard advice is always to buy the best quality property you can afford. Cheap properties in Milwaukee are fools gold (especially for OOS investors, people literally will scoff at a rough listing and then someone will say: eh, someone from CA will buy it..) The problem is these homes are 60-120 years old and because of the low value neighborhoods, nobody has ever made any capital improvements beyond duct tape. You can kick the can down the road only so long, at some point capex exceeds cash flow.

Also, stay away from weird properties. Don't buy a 2br/1ba without a basement and no garage on a corner lot next to the scrap yard, just because it's cheap and the seller is motivated. That will be you one day.

Your future self will thank you (in 10 years).


These are all great points. When the cash flow is too good to be true, it always is.

Post: How to find partners

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114

When you are new you want to focus on building relationships, not seeking partnerships. Because, think about it, if you are new what value are you bringing to the equation other than potentially money? If you have some house skills, that helps, but when you go out looking for partners it usually means money and people don't want to get that vibe in their first conversation. I would go to in-person real estate investor meetups (not masterminds) for six months without an ask and your partner or collaborator will appear.

Post: Considerations for house hacking with pets

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114

Doing MTR inside of your own house is not something I think trends that well. I know people who do STR in their house, but it's as private as possible. I think you can accomplish it, but you would want to check the inventory in the area for MTR because most MTR will want to stay privately. @Jamie Banks may be able to help - do you know anyone who does MTR in the same house?

Post: Currently fix and flip but debating

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114

How you renovate will be different for a flip and a BRRRR. If you renovate for a flip and then decide to BRRRR you will likely get less than you expect because the finishes will be too nice for a rental (depending on the neighborhood, it could work where you are in that price point). With low inventory around the country, check the absorption rate in your town. As a realtor you have all the tools to know if you should sell. My guess is absportion is very low and inventory is light so flipping a nice house to sell would be a better idea. You are likely thinking of BRRRR just to get an asset in the box, but your scale with high rates and low inventory might still point to selling to the buyers who are still hungry and renting.

Post: How busy is the Mid-term rental market in Arizona?

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114

You have a number of issues in your post unfortunately. You said you can't sell now, but want to wait for the equity gain. When do you think that will be? I don't see that happening any time soon based on your 2022 to now trajectory, but you do want to find a way to make it profitable. Also, if you "see many listings around my place. Some have been on the market for weeks", that doesn't bode well for renting of any kind really. Spending a ton on property management doesn't seem like the best move. To do MTR, you would need to fully furnish it and outfit it for convenience and then get it on Furnished Finder on your own to make it work.

Post: Don't Become a Property Hoarder or a Door Counter

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114
Quote from @David Krulac:

@Jonathan Greene  Agree 100%.  I do a procedure every year at tax preparation time.  I evaluate the performance of every income generating property that I own.  I call the process "thinning the herd", and each year I evaluate the property performance and either take actions to increase the individual property performance or sell the under performer.  For example I sold 2 properties in the same town that was more than 30 minutes away, just because of the travel time to get there and return.  Another time I sold a property that had no off street parking, because tenants didn't like not having no place to park their cars except the street. This resulted in longer times to re-rent and well as reducing the rental pool. The effect of this process is that the portfolio is constantly improving by retaining the best properties and jetison the under performers.

I've bought and sold over 1,000 properties, and people always ask me "How many doors?"  Honestly I never know precisely, as I'm constantly buying and selling, and frankly I neither know or care. I bought a house last week and am selling a house next week, but I don't know how many doors I have today, unless I effort a count.  Its either "enough" or "too many" depending on what's going on today.  But truthfully I don't know!


Thinning the herd is amazing and should be done yearly just like you are doing. That is basically a masterclass in a response up there, great stuff. I have never once known or cared how many doors I have. I care about how much income I am generating from them and what their viability as long-term assets is. I don't mind low cash flow with high appreciation, but that's my specific plan, it doesn't work for everyone.

Post: Don't Become a Property Hoarder or a Door Counter

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114
Quote from @Stuart Udis:

Unfortunately there's a ton of online content teaching novice investors that reaching XYZ number of doors equates to financial independence. Meanwhile that guidance pushes many investors towards purchasing in areas where they do nothing but accumulate terrible assets solely because they are inexpensive. Sadly these tend to be some of the most difficult properties to sell. 


Right. Not only is their cashflow estimate fake, but it's unsellable with the surprise cap ex or tax increase.

Post: Don't Become a Property Hoarder or a Door Counter

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114
Quote from @Jon K.:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

I have been seeing this a lot lately: people who hold on to underperforming properties because they add to their door count or to their self-worth as real estate investors. If you don't like buying hoarders' houses, don't be a property hoarder. A property hoarder keeps properties just to keep them. See the old mom-and-pop investors in their sixties that you are trying to buy off-market properties from.

This is like people who buy for cash flow but don't realize that with the best cash flow comes capital expenditures and tenant issues. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Appreciation is great, but not when all of that appreciation is eaten by the repairs you aren't doing. It's ok to sell properties. It's ok to sell properties at a loss (you get the downpayment back to repurpose into something better).

If you have four or more properties, this is what I would do (I just posted part of this as an answer to someone and thought it would make a good post):

1. Rank them from best to worst in cash flow

2. Rank them from best to worst in how much you like them

*3. Rank them from best to worst in management cost

*4. Rank them from closest to farthest in proximity

5. Rank them from worst to best in capital expenditures expected

*optional, not always necessary

Add those numbers together for each property. The lowest number is your best property, and the highest number is your worst property. Sell your worst property first. Then, take that money and repurpose it into something better.

Door culture is crazy. If you own ten doors and six aren't cash-flowing, why do you want to hold on to them if there isn't overwhelming appreciation coming? Don't be a property hoarder.

Are you guys doing this or seeing this? Who wants to sell their worst-performing property and turn it into a better asset?

Love it. I just went through a similar exercise. Just this week I created a spreadsheet for my portfolio with estimated equity for each property. I also have columns for cash flow (true cash flow after historic avg expenses) and the most recent month's debt paydown. That allows me to show ROI from both a cash flow perspective as well as total ROI (cash flow + debt paydown) when compared with the estimated equity.

The results were eye opening... there's a few on there that I'm likely selling off as a result of that exercise and a few others I'm going to do a cash out on. I'm not done with my estimates yet but I'm likely coming out a couple to a few thousand ahead per month when I'm done repositioning everything. It was definitely worth the time investment.


This is it exactly. Sometimes when any money is plus we think it's good, but it's not when you can use that money to make more elsewhere with less cap ex. I think people overlook their own asset management too much, but not you!

Post: What are your real estate investing goals for 2025?

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114
Quote from @Peter W.:

For context, I own two SFR:

Find a reliable and affordable handyman
Pay an extra 5k down on my highest mortgage rate (8.5%)
Rebuild cash reserves
Max out 401k and ROTH IRA
Improve my operational efficiency especially with bookkeeping.

Goal is to eventually end up with one property for each kid to help them get started when they start family formation. I would like to purchase the next property in about 5 years.


This is great because none of it is buy more. Everyone wants to buy more, but stabilization is the name of the game for the long term.

Post: Don't Become a Property Hoarder or a Door Counter

Jonathan Greene
Professional Services
Pro Member
ModeratorPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Mendham, NJ
  • Posts 6,236
  • Votes 7,114
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

This is an excellent post. Should be read, and understood by all. REI is about collecting dollar$, not properties. If you want to collect properties, there's a much cheaper way. Take pictures of all the properties you like, regardless if they will make you money, and regardless of the cost. Transfer these pics to your computer. Then set them up as your screensaver.


Thank you. Everyone is looking for a quick fix or an accumulation, but sometimes, you need to take a break and survey what you have. Then dump the chumps.