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All Forum Posts by: Katie Lyon

Katie Lyon has started 12 posts and replied 38 times.

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Katie Lyon:

If the cops have been to the property four times, you have a problem.

I have removed tenants for less. It's a matter of knowing how to swing the stick while simultaneously offering them a carrot. I remove tenants all the time without using the court system or any illegal tactics. Sometimes, it's as easy as asking them to leave. I've learned a lot of lessons over the years and share them in my book, but it takes time and experience to get good at it.


 Unfortunately nothing too serious that the cops have been there for, but enough for me to not want them to have access at risk of them deleting things. Would love them out and am going to see about asking them in an inticing way. 

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17
Quote from @Colleen F.:

@Katie Lyon  we offered a live view link on nest and with one tenant renting a room. Since most of the time no one was in the other rooms he wanted to see when someone was entering on weekends. He had no access to clips unless he requested them just the live feed. He never asked to see clips so I assume he just used it to see other people coming in. Is this a possibility? 

For apartments we have a better system and do the same as you monitor cleaners, dumpster pickup, lawn, how bad is the snow, parking.  I think it is pretty usual for shared spaces and need not be intrusive. If tenants don't like it they can rent elsewhere but most understand that having eyes on the property is good for them if they are a decent tenant.


 Love this and great to know Nest has those options. Thank you!

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17
Quote from @Matt Devincenzo:

Happy Clause:

"Hey tenant, I won't be sharing the login info as requested. If you're unhappy with that decision I understand and would be willing to allow a one time penalty free lease breaking, and we could agree to mutually terminate the lease. I will accept the termination until 4/25 if you want to exercise this option, otherwise we will continue with the lease as planned."

You can always get a tenant out before their lease term, you just need them to agree...and often they're more willing to agree than you might expect. 


 Love this and going to offer, and probably offer again later if needed.I just want them gone.

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

1. Disclose the situation prior to renting, and put it in the lease. If you told them about the cameras and that you will retain access, then that's the agreement and they have to abide by it.

2. I don't believe landlords should have recording devices on property. If you can't learn to let people live their lives without constant monitoring, then this business isn't for you.

3. If you do have a recording device on the property, I think it's only fair that the tenant have access to it. Find a way to let them monitor without authorizing them to delete.


 We've never used it for monitoring before this tenant, but used it to make sure cleaners were coming, weather was not destructive, other vendors came, etc., but the police have been at the property 4 times so we are more concerned with ensuring the property is ok and the tenants aren't disruptive in the outside area near other townhouses right now. It's blink, which doesn't offer a way to see if videos were deleted, or recover deleted videos, that's why I'm in this situation :/ Ultimately we just should not have rented to this tenant. 

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17
Quote from @Joe S.:

Why would you have a video doorbell on a rental property to start with? We’re not talking about a short term rental at least it doesn’t sound that way.

Sounds like you need to not renew the lease on this tenant if they are troublesome. Some times it’s best to hire a PM. 

Is this your only rental?


 Joe, no, we have 14 but most are MTRs which are great. This is someone that rented longterm. We have the camera (doorbell and back) primarily for weather monitoring as we manage from long distance. There will definitely be no lease renewal here!

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17
Quote from @Wesley W.:

I have not spent a day in law school, so take my advice with that caveat.

As long as you are not recording a tenant in their unit (or have the camera aimed at their window to look inside, for instance), then I think you are fine.  There is no expectation of privacy in common areas or outside on the premises.

However, I am reading between the lines here and it seems like the tenant is the real issue here.

Here's what I would do if I were you (in order):

(1) Issue a notice of termination to this tenant, and make sure you comply with your state statute for doing so.  As a self manager, life is too short to put up with this.  This is your property and you make the rules!  There are plenty of qualified applicants that would appreciate an attentive and responsible lessor.  Hopefully they are MTM.  If not, hopefully their lease term is coming up soon.  In most jurisdictions (besides a few left-leaning pockets), you can terminate (i.e. not renew) a lease for any reason (excepting discrimination based on protected class) or no reason.  Do not give them a reason.  The less you say, the less fodder you give them to argue with you ad nauseum.

(2) If you are still offering term leases, consider offering MTM henceforth.  I have written extensively here in on BP about the benefits of MTM and the liabilities with term leases .

(3) Tighten up your lease language regarding cameras.  Here are two excerpts from mine that are germane:

22. SECURITY: We do not provide security services to protect you, others, or property. You must look solely to public law enforcement for such protection. We will not be liable for failure to provide security services or for the criminal or wrongful acts of others. Exterior doors should be locked at all times. We have no duty to you to provide security services or devices other than the duty to provide you with (a) an operable lock on each main swinging entry door of the Rental Unit and (b) operable window locking devices for windows that are designed to be opened. After you take possession of the Rental Unit, we will have no obligation or duty to inspect, test or repair any lock or other security device unless you request us to do so in writing. There should be no expectation of privacy in the common areas of the Premises. We reserve the right to place security cameras in those locations at our sole discretion as we deem necessary. Any cautionary measures that we take (whether applicant screening, security cameras, security devices or courtesy patrol services) which may presently exist or later be installed on the Premises are neither a guarantee nor warranty against criminal acts of others on the Premises or otherwise. Your personal safety and security are your personal responsibility. If criminal activity occurs, you should contact the appropriate law enforcement agency.

AND

(n) Cameras may not be placed by you (or at your direction) in common areas or anywhere on the outside of your Rental Unit. Doorbell cameras are permitted on your exterior door(s).

Lastly, regarding the concern about audio recording and its legality, if you find it is not legal in your area, then just disable the audio portion of the recording via the app.  It should be just a toggle on the UI.  But...as I stated...your REAL problem is (1), above.  These other things are red herrings; you are spending time on managing the effect, rather than dealing directly with the cause.

Good luck!


 Thanks Wesley! Unfortunately I don't think I can terminate their lease and they are locked in for quite awhile...wish I could..trust me! Lesson learned. 

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17
Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Is there a way to set it up so that they can view it, but can not have access to any of the settings?  Ie can't delete files, turn off the camera, etc.


 I wish. I'm using Blink which does not have that function. I'm going to change to a more sophisticated one afterwards (I'll have to dig in and see which one allows account access levels like that!)

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17

Thank you so much!

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17

Thank you! Any tips on how to find state-specific requirements there? My property is in Iowa!

Post: Does my tenant have rights to the Ring doorbell account?

Katie Lyon
Posted
  • Investor
  • Posts 40
  • Votes 17

Am I obligated to give tenants access to a video doorbell and/or camera account? One is OUTSIDE in the back covering the back yard (not fenced) and the other is the Blink doorbell. 

This tenant has been troublesome and we previously shared access for transparency with them, however we have some new security concerns and multiple visits from the police and I am suspicious they have been/will delete videos they do not want us seeing.