All Forum Posts by: Kevin S.
Kevin S. has started 24 posts and replied 394 times.
Post: Looking for general contractor?!

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
With contractor not putting any money into it, he/she would be 50/50 partner? Is that the norm?
Post: Help Needed: Single Family Rental Properties v.s. Stock Market Returns

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Quote from @Kevin S.:
Quote from @Devin Scott:
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Yea because they started those companies. There's no person on that list that just invested in the stock market to get super rich. Buffet is the closest but he has controlling positions much of the time and he is an operator.
I agree. The super rich are the ones who founded their companies. The rich are the ones who invested early in them.
I used to be under the impression that you make money investing in stocks and thru' compounding. True. That's what Warren Buffet tells everyone. That's how he became a very high net worth person by age 50. I believe his REAL high net came about not by compounding in stock market but by actually buying companies.
I once read that the wealthy people use stock market to beat inflation but real wealth is held in real estate. I'll find out what's true in about 50 yrs! LOL.
"I once read that the wealthy people use the stock market to beat inflation but real wealth is held in real estate."
I don't know where you read that but it makes no sense. RE is a far better hedge against inflation since it's a real asset. Many companies are negatively affected by inflation and their stock price will fall.
If you read my entire post rather than the snippet that was pulled out of it you will see my point was in response to a post that claimed RE will make more money but takes more work. My point is that if you don't put the work in then of course stocks won't offer you the return. There is a lot more to investing in equities than index funds and buy and hold and it takes a lot of work. The other point I made in this thread was that IMO treating these 2 investing areas as alternatives to one another is the wrong way to look at it. I would first look at what you are trying to achieve, if it's personal wealth then stocks are likely best, if it's generational wealth then RE is likely the best. People should aim to do both.
Mark, I don't disagree with you. It's just something I once 'read' which doesn't make sense since inflation is (used to be) about 2% and stock market return is much more.
I think the author was kinda over exaggerating to make a point to us ordinary folks that compounding makes us 'rich' but the real wealthy people did not become real wealthy via stock market but by founding their companies. And supposedly the author researched that these super wealthy individuals after they founded their companies did not have their money in stock market anymore but rather parked their wealth in Real Estate. Stock market is for us ordinary folks to keep buying into for the 1%.
The few posts I read coming from you I hold it in high regards. As for me I am now getting involved in RE, albeit a little late. Like I said, in about 50yrs I'll (or my kids) find out if that author was right. LOL.
Post: Help Needed: Single Family Rental Properties v.s. Stock Market Returns

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Devin Scott:
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Yea because they started those companies. There's no person on that list that just invested in the stock market to get super rich. Buffet is the closest but he has controlling positions much of the time and he is an operator.
I agree. The super rich are the ones who founded their companies. The rich are the ones who invested early in them.
I used to be under the impression that you make money investing in stocks and thru' compounding. True. That's what Warren Buffet tells everyone. That's how he became a very high net worth person by age 50. I believe his REAL high net came about not by compounding in stock market but by actually buying companies.
I once read that the wealthy people use stock market to beat inflation but real wealth is held in real estate. I'll find out what's true in about 50 yrs! LOL.
Post: Help Needed: Single Family Rental Properties v.s. Stock Market Returns

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Quote from @Kevin S.:
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Quote from @Kevin S.:
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Quote from @Hayden Kerns:
Real Estate or the Stock Market. For those that have ventured into either avenue of investing, what insights can you share? Have you found real estate to be more lucrative and stable over time, or do you believe that the stock market offers better returns and flexibility?
I understand that residential rental properties can provide positive incentives through loan paydown, tax incentives, cash flow, and appreciation. Based on my research, it is possible to become financially free through real estate investing, but requires hard work and time. Why would I not just invest my hard earned money into an index fund that is generating a yearly return of 10% with no hassle of managing tenants, expensive CAPEX, etc.
I value the insight of everyone and would appreciate your perspectives on the matter. Thank you!
I've built the majority of my wealth as a trader and investor of stocks. Very difficult to do IMO for the majority by simply buying and holding index funds or even individual stocks. I trade mostly options and have shorted stocks but it's not my strength. There's nothing wrong with buying and holding stocks and you obviously could accumulate a great deal of money doing so if you start early in life. The way I think about stocks Vs RE would be stocks build personal wealth and Real Estate builds generational wealth, this would be my simple way to explain how I think of it. I have recently started to believe that it is less a choice between the two and more a way to diversify wealth with assets that behave very differently. Real property is also a great hedge against inflation.
The USA has very friendly tax laws for property owners but they quickly swing against you if you decide it's time to exit the investment, passing it on to heirs is the way to create that generational wealth so once you commit to it then its a commitment for life in my opinion.
Mark, can you expand on what you meant by "....they swing against you if you decide to exit the investment". Thanks.
Sure, I would guess that most people not well-versed in property investments don't understand the amount of tax payable when you exit the investment. All the benefits you have obtained through depreciation must be recaptured leaving you with a surprisingly large tax bill.
Thanks for your response. I am not well versed in property investment. All my investment is in stocks and like you I have begun to not compare which is better, but as 'diversification'. Now back to your response, doesn't it (tax bill) come due eventually?
The two areas that you should research are "1031 exchanges" and "step up in basis" This should answer your question.
Thank you.
Post: Help Needed: Single Family Rental Properties v.s. Stock Market Returns

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Quote from @Kevin S.:
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Quote from @Hayden Kerns:
Real Estate or the Stock Market. For those that have ventured into either avenue of investing, what insights can you share? Have you found real estate to be more lucrative and stable over time, or do you believe that the stock market offers better returns and flexibility?
I understand that residential rental properties can provide positive incentives through loan paydown, tax incentives, cash flow, and appreciation. Based on my research, it is possible to become financially free through real estate investing, but requires hard work and time. Why would I not just invest my hard earned money into an index fund that is generating a yearly return of 10% with no hassle of managing tenants, expensive CAPEX, etc.
I value the insight of everyone and would appreciate your perspectives on the matter. Thank you!
I've built the majority of my wealth as a trader and investor of stocks. Very difficult to do IMO for the majority by simply buying and holding index funds or even individual stocks. I trade mostly options and have shorted stocks but it's not my strength. There's nothing wrong with buying and holding stocks and you obviously could accumulate a great deal of money doing so if you start early in life. The way I think about stocks Vs RE would be stocks build personal wealth and Real Estate builds generational wealth, this would be my simple way to explain how I think of it. I have recently started to believe that it is less a choice between the two and more a way to diversify wealth with assets that behave very differently. Real property is also a great hedge against inflation.
The USA has very friendly tax laws for property owners but they quickly swing against you if you decide it's time to exit the investment, passing it on to heirs is the way to create that generational wealth so once you commit to it then its a commitment for life in my opinion.
Mark, can you expand on what you meant by "....they swing against you if you decide to exit the investment". Thanks.
Sure, I would guess that most people not well-versed in property investments don't understand the amount of tax payable when you exit the investment. All the benefits you have obtained through depreciation must be recaptured leaving you with a surprisingly large tax bill.
Thanks for your response. I am not well versed in property investment. All my investment is in stocks and like you I have begun to not compare which is better, but as 'diversification'. Now back to your response, doesn't it (tax bill) come due eventually?
Post: Help Needed: Single Family Rental Properties v.s. Stock Market Returns

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Mark Cotter:
Quote from @Hayden Kerns:
Real Estate or the Stock Market. For those that have ventured into either avenue of investing, what insights can you share? Have you found real estate to be more lucrative and stable over time, or do you believe that the stock market offers better returns and flexibility?
I understand that residential rental properties can provide positive incentives through loan paydown, tax incentives, cash flow, and appreciation. Based on my research, it is possible to become financially free through real estate investing, but requires hard work and time. Why would I not just invest my hard earned money into an index fund that is generating a yearly return of 10% with no hassle of managing tenants, expensive CAPEX, etc.
I value the insight of everyone and would appreciate your perspectives on the matter. Thank you!
I've built the majority of my wealth as a trader and investor of stocks. Very difficult to do IMO for the majority by simply buying and holding index funds or even individual stocks. I trade mostly options and have shorted stocks but it's not my strength. There's nothing wrong with buying and holding stocks and you obviously could accumulate a great deal of money doing so if you start early in life. The way I think about stocks Vs RE would be stocks build personal wealth and Real Estate builds generational wealth, this would be my simple way to explain how I think of it. I have recently started to believe that it is less a choice between the two and more a way to diversify wealth with assets that behave very differently. Real property is also a great hedge against inflation.
The USA has very friendly tax laws for property owners but they quickly swing against you if you decide it's time to exit the investment, passing it on to heirs is the way to create that generational wealth so once you commit to it then its a commitment for life in my opinion.
Mark, can you expand on what you meant by "....they swing against you if you decide to exit the investment". Thanks.
Post: Help Needed: Single Family Rental Properties v.s. Stock Market Returns

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Rick Albert:
I think the big component is leverage.
You buy a $1M asset that is leveraged at 80% LTV. Appreciation is based on the $1M, not the $200K.
The other component is no matter what happens to the property, you always have at least land value. You could invest in a company that goes under and you lose everything. Plus real estate is a necessity. People have to have a roof over their heads. I would make the argument that real estate is safer in a lot of ways.
In the current market isn't it more like 40% DP and 60% leveraged? It has affected the ROI quite a bit.
Post: Looking for general contractor?!

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Michael Tompkins:
Quote from @Kevin S.:
How would you put a price on "free work"? After all it is not really free. Your work is worth a "dollar amount" to be credited towards equity.
How would you calculate that?
How would you avoid conflict of interest/double dipping?
I was approached by someone who has the resources (men and material as he was in roofing business) to partner up and buy MFs. I did not take up the offer because I have zero knowledge in construction wouldn't know if he made money off our own co-owned property right under my nose. You brought up a topic I wanted answers myself.
How would you, as a contractor, do this? Let's see what others has to say.
General contractors typically charge a percentage for their service. If a partnership is entered into then that fee would be waived. Easy to eliminate "double dipping", all partners get to review the invoices whenever subcontractors are hired. As far as compensation in the form of cash flow/equity, those numbers would need to be negotiated on a case by case basis.
If the contractor-partner is handling all reno and construction part of the property, only his crew get paid the usual hourly/daily rate and we split the material cost? What would the partnership percentage split be? Is it a 50/50 partnership with 50/50 cash outlay? Does contractor expect his partner to put up more than 50% cash with 50/50 partnership?
Post: Discussion On Risk Management in Real Estate Investment

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
Quote from @Account Closed:
Real estate investing comes with its fair share of risks.
How do you assess and mitigate risks in your investment portfolio?
Share your risk management strategies and lessons learned.
I send you some questions in another post few days ago and am still awaiting your response.
Post: Looking for general contractor?!

- Posts 398
- Votes 240
How would you put a price on "free work"? After all it is not really free. Your work is worth a "dollar amount" to be credited towards equity.
How would you calculate that?
How would you avoid conflict of interest/double dipping?
I was approached by someone who has the resources (men and material as he was in roofing business) to partner up and buy MFs. I did not take up the offer because I have zero knowledge in construction wouldn't know if he made money off our own co-owned property right under my nose. You brought up a topic I wanted answers myself.
How would you, as a contractor, do this? Let's see what others has to say.