All Forum Posts by: Drew Sygit

@Kristin Vegas what ROI do you project to obtain on the MFR?

If you can beat the ROI you're getting on the SFR, then do it.

Otherwise, why can't you buy a 2-4 unit with a 3% down FHA loan?

@Paige Gardner why don't you share more about what you are trying to do?

@Joseph Alfie how well do you know the differences between Class A, B, C & D tenants/neighborhoods/properties?

@Mian Dingle how well have you thought this through?

5 strangers all living in a home that have to somehow get along. 

Who gets blamed for and/or has to handle the following unique to nonfamily roommates:

1) Missing personal possessions?
2) Consuming the food stuff of others?
3) Parking issues?
4) Bathroom time limits?
5) Noisy guests?
6) Guests that almost live there? (boyfriends/girlfriends/family, etc)
7) Who cleans?
8) Lawn maintenance?

BTW: did you check local ordinances about boarding room rentals (which this would be)?

If you do find a PMC willing to do this, expect to pay quite a bit more for all the extra hassles!

@Dan Shuder

Recommend exploring as many sources as possible to get referrals AND cross-reference them to get as much accurate information as possible.

Check out NARPM.com, BP’s Property Manager Finder (BiggerPockets: The Real Estate Investing Social Network), etc.

Also, encourage you to learn from the mistakes of others - by reading posts here on BiggerPockets about owners not having their expectations met by their current Property Management Company.

To avoid going through the same poor experience, keep reading.

Even if someone gives you a referral here, do NOT make the mistake of assuming that the PMC will meet your expectations, just because they met the expectations of the referral source.

In our experience, the #1 mistake owners make when selecting a Property Management Company (PMC) is ASSUMING instead of CONFIRMING.

It's often a case of not doing enough research, as they don't know what they don't know!

Owners mistakenly ASSUME all PMCs offer the exact SAME SERVICES and PERFORM those services EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, so price is the only differentiator – so, they often select the first PMC they call or that calls them back!

So, the first question they usually ask a PMC is about fees - instead of asking about services and HOW those services are executed.

EXAMPLE: PMC states they will handle tenant screening – what does that specifically mean? What documents do they require, what credit scores do they allow, how do they verify previous rental history, etc.? You’d be shocked by how little actual screening many PMC’s do!

This also leads owners to ASSUME simpler is better when it comes to management contracts.

The reality is the opposite - if it's not in writing then the PMC doesn't have to provide the service or can charge extra for it!

A well written management contract should clearly spell out what is expected of both the PMC and the owner, to PROTECT both and avoid misunderstandings. Why do you think purchase contracts are so long and have such small print?

We recommend you get management contracts from several PMCs and compare the services they cover and, more importantly, what they each DO NOT cover.

EDUCATE YOURSELF - yes, it will take time, but will lead to a selection that better meets your expectations & avoids potentially costly surprises!

P.S. If you just hire the cheapest or first PMC you speak with and it turns into a bad experience, please don’t assume ALL PMC’s are bad and start trashing PMC’s in general. Take ownership of your mistake and learn to do the proper due diligence recommended above😊

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91878-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-2-communication-and-docum

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91879-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-3-the-management-contr

@Rosette Poole

Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location to invest in.

Property Class will typically dictate the Class of tenant you get, which greatly IMPACTS rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.

If you apply Class A assumptions to a Class B or C purchase, your expectations won’t be met and it may be a financial disaster.

If you buy/renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what quality of tenant will you get?

Similarly, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A 4-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?

So, when investing in areas they don’t really know, investors should research the different property Class submarkets.

Here’s our OPINION for the Metro Detroit market (use as a template for your target area!) that we’ve learned in our 24 years, managing almost 700 doors across the Metro Detroit area, including almost 100 S8 leases:

Class A Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.
Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% the more recent norm.
Tenant Pool: Majority will have FICO scores of 680+ (roughly 5% probability of default), zero evictions in last 7 years.

Class B Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, decent amount of relative rent & value appreciation.
Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% should be applied only if proper research done to support.
Tenant Pool: Majority will have FICO scores of 620-680 (around 10% probability of default), some blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 5 years

Class C Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, high cashflow and at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation. Can try to reposition to Class B, but neighborhood may impede these efforts.
Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, but 15-20% should be used to also cover tenant nonpayment, eviction costs & damages.
Tenant Pool: majority will have FICO scores of 560-620 (approaching 22% probability of default), many blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 2 years. Verifying last 2 years of rental history very important! Also, focus on 2 years of job/income stability.

Class D Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation
Vacancy Est: 20%+ should be used to cover nonpayment, evictions & damages.
Tenant Pool: majority will have FICO scores under 560 (almost 30% probability of default), little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, recent evictions. Verifying last 2 years of rental history and income extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.

Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

@Kuba Rogut how will your product be better/different than PropertyMeld?

@Kuba Rogut options:

1) In-house maintenance team

2) Out-sourced local maintenance team

3) Outsource to Latchel, Porch, etc., 3rd party companies

4) Mix of the above

@Anthony Klemm here's copy & paste info that hopefully answers your question(s):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Real Estate Crash of 2008-2010 caused real estate prices to crash across the country - but didn't affect rent amounts. This caused a historically unique opportunity for investors - they could buy Class A properties and immediately cashflow when renting them out.

This couldn't last forever, and it didn't, as excited new investors drove up prices.

Eventually, Class A property values increased to the point that even increasing rents didn't allow them to cashflow upon purchase.

So, the flood of new investors switched to buying Class B properties.

COVID created a chaotic spike in both the sale & rental markets, attracting even more new real estate investors. According to CoreLogic, in December of 2023, almost 30% of home sales were to investors!

Investment also spiked in Class A Short-Term Rentals (STR) and investors started paying higher and higher prices based upon anticipated STR rental rates, that exceeded sustainability based upon Long-Term Rental rates (LTR).

Now we're seeing investors pouring money into buying Class C rentals - but, many are getting burned.

In our experience & opinion, the main determinant of property Class is not location or even property condition, those are #2 and #3. The #1 determinant is the Tenant Pool.

If you don't believe us, try putting several Class D tenants in Class A apartment buildings and watch what happens. Or try the reverse - rehab a property to Class A standards in a Class D neighborhood and try to get a Class A or B tenant to rent it.

Unfortunately, many newbie real estate investors are jumping into buying affordable Class C rentals - expecting Class A results. In our opinion, Class C tenants have FICO scores from 560 to 620 - where their chance of default/nonpayment is 15-22%. See the chart from Fair Isaac Company (FICO) below:

Source: Fair Isaac Company

According to this chart, investors should use corresponding vacancy+tenant-nonperformance factors of approximately 5% for Class A rentals, 10% for Class B and 20% for Class C.

To address Class C payment challenges, many industry "experts" are now selling programs to newbie investors about how Section 8 tenants are the cure. If only it was that easy. Yes, the government pays the Section 8 rent timely, but more and more tenants are having to pay a portion of their rent. Then there are the challenges with Section 8 tenants paying utilities and taking care of their rental property.

Investors should fully understand that Section 8 is not a cure-all for Class C & D tenant challenges, it's just trading one set of problems for another.

We see too many investors not doing enough research to fully understand all this and making naïve investing decisions.

Why would you expect to have serious cashflow when putting 0% down?

Where did you read that was possible?

How many units are you including in the $67,200? 
- Dividing by 3 units (you have to live in one for first 12 months) leads to $1867/unit/monthly rent.
- Dividing by 4 units leads to $1400/unit/monthly rent.

What are you factoring in your ROI & cashflow calculations for maintenance?

If you're worried about cashflow, why would you do a 15 year loan with a higher payment -> meaning negative cashflow?

If you have plenty of reserves, why don't you calculate how much you have to put down to generate the cashflow you want?