All Forum Posts by: Lori Williams

Currently vacancy rates are all over the chart. The thing I have noticed is it depends on what you've got for a property, where it is located and how much vetting you do of tenants.

My vacancy rates are almost 0%. I invest a lot into rehabs so they are B+ properties. I advertise well in advance of them being available, which lets me vet potential renters without being rushed to make a decision. I cater to a demographic most others do not so I don't have a ton of competition. 

Right now there is a shortage of rentable properties. One of the reasons is because during this crazy Market a lot of landlords have sold their houses to primary home buyers, which is taking it Market that was already low on rentals even lower. So if a landlord chooses their properties well, and does a good job on rehab, and advertises timely, they should not have much if any down time between renters

This is an Old Post, but I'm going to comment anyway. Because 5 years ago I was sinking a lot of money in Youngstown, and 5 years later I'm still sinking a lot of money in youngstown.

note that I'm doing voice to text on my phone, so this comment may be a little wonky

I don't know where that woman was coming up with her properties, but it sounds kind of like the hood. And Youngstown does have its share of hoods.

There is not one distressed property in the city that you can rehab for less than 50k-100k. At least not if you're going to do the good as new kind of rehab

But there are absolutely areas in Youngstown that are low crime, that are appreciating, and that you can still buy properties at a great price, and, if you rehab them properly and fully, you can get excellent rents with excellent profits.

I just wanted to set the record straight. Contrary to let people who don't know Youngstown think, it is a great Old City with some gorgeous architecture, and there are neighborhoods that are absolutely worth the cost of transforming them.

I own four properties in a cluster in a little neighborhood. I paid between 25k and 55k per property. I spent between 40K and 80k to rehab them. My monthly net profit for all four properties is a little over $5,000 per month

So there is a lot of money to be made here if you know your neighborhoods, and you know what's going on in your neighborhood, and you are willing to invest what it takes to get the high returns.

just like in any city, not all properties and neighborhoods are created equal. Yes, Youngstown has its rougher, low rent areas. But it also has some areas that are being revitalized and are appreciating at 15 to 25% per year and have been for the last several years, and where you can get rents that far exceed the market.

You will be directed to the suburbs, because there are not a lot of people with a high opinion of Youngstown proper.

Let's look at the problems with the city... Devastated by the collapse of the steel industry in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Lost half of its population. Anyone with any money moved out of the city as areas began to decline (a few neighborhoods remained where older residents with money held their ground bc they loved their homes).

Out of state (and local) slumlords started looking at Ytown as a place to buy disposable properties - buy them cheap, rent to the first crackhead with 500.00 in their pocket, and every few months rinse and repeat bc they got the properties for 15-25k and didn't have to put any real money into them to rent them. So this took entire neighborhoods even further down, and no one with a lick of self respect or a job would want to live in these neighborhoods with crackhead neighbors. So those ppl moved to the burbs (Canfield, Poland, Boardman, etc)

To someone from California (my husband is from LA and my stepson still lives there), especially when you're better off and paying 1.2M for a tiny triplex, tends to not respect a triplex they can pick up for $50k - just by way of the price, it will never be worth anything.

My stepson bought that 1.2M triplex in LA in 2019 and did no rehab (he's frugal ;) ). His tenants are section 8. He has about 250k in cash invested in it and nets around 1000.00 per month profit after paying for everything.

I bought 2 duplexes in Ytown for 96k total, and put about 140k into the rehab, and do NOT rent section 8. Our cash investment is about $50k after refinancing, and our net is around 2500.00/mo. 

So which is the better market? It depends on what you're looking for.

My stepson is looking for a big payout on sale, and his property will probably double in value over the next 3 - 5 years, maybe sooner (meanwhile, his ROI on cash flow is awful). He also bought it at speculative pricing bc of the new stadium, so he paid well over market value at the time.

These two duplexes have about 37.00/sq ft into them, and should double in value within the next 3-5 years, to 74.00/sq ft. Rents will also increase about 25% during that time period.

If my stepson had purchased 5 sets of 2 duplexes using our process, he'd have spent the same amount out of pocket as he did on his triplex (10 properties for the same cash outlay as 1 property), and would be netting around 12,500.00/month (instead of the 1k he's currently netting)

At the end of 5 years, if those 10 duplexes only get to 70.00/sq ft, he would profit 990k, so probably not that much less in market value for the cash out of pocket (chances are very good that in 5 years, these particular duplexes will be worth at least 80.00/sq ft, and if so, that would be another 300k with that extra 10.00/sq ft on those 10 properties and be equal to what his property doubling in value would be). 

But those monthly net rents would have made him another 750k, so he'd probably be further ahead overall in the Youngstown market than the LA market. 

Plus, getting much of your "profit" from monthly rents rather than a back end sale means you keep more of your money, because that back end sale has realtor fees and closing costs tied to it, and can also mean capital gains, where as monthly rent profits don't have those added expenses and possible taxes.

I know this is a lot of words. So to summarize, Youngstown is actually an excellent market if you know where to invest in the city (and gradually, those areas will increase in number), with a ton of room for growth and the ability to get excellent rents. It all depends on your business model and whether you want to be a slumlord and make no real investment, or you're willing to make that real investment.

I get more rent for a 2 bedroom duplex unit in Youngstown proper than I can get in the much higher property value town I live in 30 minutes down the road. 

There are several reasons I do all my investing in the city of Youngstown and not the suburbs.

I'm a little late to the conversation, but...

Disclaimer: I grew up in Cortland, in Trumbull County. It's kind of like Mayberry, without Andy and Opie. So I had a lot of misconceptions about Ytown before I started driving and researching back in 2016.

Covid did a number on malls, theaters and things like that. But Boardman is as close as you can get to a city that's almost entirely retail, so if the mall were to close, there'd still be plenty of shopping. It wouldn't kill the area economically.

The southside of Ytown has some very bad areas that I wouldn't walk in during the day. It also has some beautiful areas that are being revitalized.

Just like the rest of Ytown, it's imperative you know your neighborhoods. There are bad neighborhoods on the north, south, east and west. There are also really nice areas in the city with little crime. You can go from an area on the southside where there's a lot of crime to another area of the southside where there's almost no crime. There can be a drastic change in neighborhoods by just going 3-4 streets. So you need to know your streets.

One of the biggest issues in Ytown is INVESTORS. We have out of state investors who see the properties as disposable, buy them, slumlord them, and suck all the beauty out of them and leave them to decay. They rent to the first crackhead with the rent in their pocket and don't care about what/who they are putting in a neighborhood. And there are some local investors with the same mindset. And THAT will destroy a city faster than anything. If I could make a law against these kinds of investors, I would.

Then you have the city leaders who only care about affordable housing. Sorry, but affordable housing doesn't increase your tax base, make your schools better or clean up the neighborhoods. The city leaders need to get smart and realize that while *some* affordable housing is important, the reality is, the people who will live there, pay higher taxes and spend money at the downtown businesses are not the residents of "affordable housing", and if you want to draw the kind of residents that will fix up their homes, pay higher taxes and be the kind of neighbor that draws more people to move to Ytown, they need to stop with the policies that make it harder to attract gainfully employed, tax paying residents.

Youngstown is actually a place many people want to live, and they are finding it difficult bc there are too many slumlords and too much focus on "affordable housing". So they work in Youngstown, and then go home (and spend their money) in the suburbs.

So investors who are willing to really put the money into their properties - like literally roof to floor rehabs - can get great rents and excellent tenants. Property values in Ytown are appreciating, and they will appreciate faster the more investors who put real money into their properties.

If you're a BRRRR investor, you will probably leave money on the table when you refinance if you've done a C2 type of rehab, and that makes it difficult (it's held my progress back for sure). But if you choose your streets correctly, you'll be able to refinance within a few years and your properties will be worth more than what you paid to purchase and rehab (it has taken my first properties 4 years).

BUT, if you are BRRRR, even if you leave some cash in the deal, if you've chosen your streets properly, and you've done your rehab properly, your rents will be much higher than market rents (mine are currently 75% - 100%+ above the rents others on the same streets are getting), and you'll get better tenants who won't trash your house. On my last purchase, after rehab, I will get 4x the rent the previous landlord got (I know this, because I already have it rented for that amount, lease signed, deposit paid, unseen by renter except for a few pics and a rendering of the layout and what it will look like when we're done, with a May 15 - June 1 move in date)

I am focusing on 1 street. My plan is to own the street. If I own it (or most of it), I control its look, its personality, and its economy. I can turn a class D street into a class B street. I don't have to own the entire street - just the properties that aren't kept up (mostly the properties owned by slumlords). And as I get closer to my goal on owning the street, because what I'm doing is so transformative, I will also control the values of the properties on that street, and they will jump from 15.00 - 25.00/sq ft to 45.00 - 55.00/sq ft short term and 60.00 - 80.00/sq ft over the next 3-5 years, and then continue to appreciate with the rest of the neighborhood.

But the key is to see Youngstown as something more than a place to hoard cheap properties and slam the first person with money in their pocket through the door. The key is *real* investment for the long term. Investors who truly invest will see good rents on the front end and good appreciation on the back end.

Ok, I'm getting off the podium now. 

@Leslie Lehmkuhl Youngstown

We bought our first property with inherited tenants. I don't ever want to do it again.

Previous owner was charging them 350.00/mo. Including water and trash. Had no leases. Had no deposits.

The day we closed, I took a 30 day notice and told them if they started paying higher rent on the 1st of the following month, and 1/3 of their deposit each month until they had it paid, they could stay. I increased the rent substantially. We can't pay the mortgage on what they pay in rent, let alone taxes, insurance and water.

I did not care if they moved. I need to remodel anyway. 

Of course, we're filing for eviction Monday, because they aren't paying. We've given them 3.5 mos by the time the sheriff will go to remove their belongings (if they hold out that long), which is enough squatting.

On the plus side, that lets me get it rehabbed faster, and get tenants who can afford the rent that's going to be 3-4x what they were paying.

You have to figure out what's best for you financially. And still try to be fair and give the tenant time to find somewhere else to live.

Just wanted to take a moment to introduce myself. I'm Lori, and I invest exclusively in Youngstown, OH and have been since 2016.

I have a different vision for Youngstown than it seems many investors have. My business model targets the professional who works in Youngstown proper. My rehabs are C2, ceiling to floor or roof to floor. I spend substantially more on rehabs to make the properties a place I'd want to live myself, using higher end materials and paying attention to little details. 

I get $1100.00/mo for a 2 bdrm apartment, $1300.00 - 1400.00/mo for a small 3 bdrm house and $1400.00 - 1750.00 for 4 bdrms.

The biggest hurdle I've faced is the amount of time it's taking to do this project. I've been working alone, one property at a time. But now that we've got the process down, we're opening up the development to investor partners and private lenders (and paying flat 15% on short term small loans).

It's exciting, it is frustrating, and it's an adventure, for sure. When I started out, I merely wanted 4 properties to set us up for retirement one day. But sometimes opportunity knocks and you've got to answer that door ;) 

I do all my investing in Youngstown and have been since April 2016.

I am currently developing a rental community for professionals who work in downtown Youngstown. 

Last Friday, I put a small 3 bdrm house up for rent. Had the lease signed by Sunday afternoon to 2nd walk through (older sisters with great pensions) and deposit, 1st, last and partial mo paid by Zelle Monday morning. The house is renting for 1350.00.

From that rental ad I got an application on Sunday afternoon for another 3 bdrm that will be available in August (retired military and pharmacy tech). This house is renting for 1300.00

Also from that rental ad I got an application Sunday for a duplex I just bought, the lease was signed (based on pics and rendering of floor plan, not actual walk through) and deposit, 1st and last paid by bank certified check on Tuesday. Move in set for May 15th - June 1st (I'm in the process of removing tenant and then have to rehab it). This unit is renting for 1400.00.

And finally from the same rental ad, we took an application for a ranch house that will be available on April 1st (current renters moving out of state). This house is renting for 1750.00.

So from one ad, we filled 2 rentals and took applications for properties that won't be ready until April and August.

We have decided to either do a private loan paying 15% flat rate (preferred) or alternatively, we are willing to bring in an investor to finish the rehabs on our last 2 purchases (2 duplexes) so we can get them done faster because we can fill these doors quickly and move on to the next 2 purchases on this block. We literally only need a small amount to finish these ceiling to floor C2/Class B rehabs/remodels.

Youngstown has some great opportunities, but not all areas of the Yo are equal, so it's important to know your areas. In some areas, you will have little to no appreciation and low income renters. In a few areas, you can have higher end rentals and well qualified renters and decent appreciation. You can go 2-3 streets and be in a whole different neighborhood with an entirely different economy (it's usually not this drastic, but this is why doing your research is so very important, so you end up with a property that is going to cash flow well and appreciate on the back end)

I will tell you this: I've never bought a property from a Ytown wholesaler. All my properties have either come from the MLS or from ppl seeing me work and approaching me (tho I expect to have to approach some owners soon so I can keep the progress going on this development :) )

On a 300k investment, your cash flow should be gross of about 4500.00 and you should be netting at least 1500.00

OK, this is my way of doing things. But here are some examples...

I bought a house for 23k, put 50k into rehab, and I rent it for 1350.00/mo. My NET is $870.00/mo

I bought a duplex for $40k, put 65k into it, and rent it for $2200.00/mo (1100.00/unit). My NET is approximately $1475.00.

I bought another duplex for $56k, and put 70k into it. I rent it for $2400.00/mo (1100.00 and 1300.00/unit). My NET is $1700.00.

You should always get more than 100.00 - 200.00 cash flow on a property. Not only do you have to pay yourself, but you have to have enough to put aside for repairs and maintenance and vacancies.

I invest in Ohio in a little neighborhood that is revitalizing, so property values are also going up about 20-24%/year.