All Forum Posts by: Michael Smythe

@Jalia Tucker be sure you fully understand what you're getting yourself into with your, "invest in growing areas with more affordable properties and lower rents".

This will often lead you to Class C properties, so you'll need to understand what to expect with those types of properties/tenants.

Read our standard advice below:

Beginning investors need to STOP believing all the fluff about rental investing, especially with the overheated real estate market trending to historic norms. Many believe unrealistic assumptions and often apply those assumptions to the wrong property classes.

In our OPINION (always verify your area for yourself!):

Class A Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.
Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% the more recent norm.
Tenants: Majority will have FICO scores of 680+, zero evictions in last 7 years.

Class B Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, decent amount of relative rent & value appreciation.
Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, 5% should be applied only if proper research done to support.
Tenants: Majority will have FICO scores of 620-680, some blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 5 years

Class C Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, high cashflow and at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation. Can try to reposition to Class B, but neighborhood may impede these efforts.
Vacancy Est: Historically 10%, but 15-20% should often be used to also cover nonpayment, evictions & damages.
Tenants: majority will have FICO scores of 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no evictions in last 2 years. Verifying previous 2-years of rental history very important! Also, focus on 2 years of job/income stability.

Class D Properties:
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with zero or negative relative rent & value appreciation
Vacancy Est: 20%+ should be used to cover nonpayment, evictions & damages.
Tenants: majority will have FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, recent evictions.

Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

@Lily Wang if you were in their shoes, what rent would you be looking to pay?

Pretty sure you'd want the lowest rent possible to improve your profits.

From your point of view, why would you rent at market rate if your property will be subject to additional wear & tear and more maintenance issues?

Try to find a local investment group you can meet with and ask questions to the successful members.

This is too small for an accredited investor.

Does your 6% ROI include principal paydown of the mortgage?

What are the appreciation expectations for rents and property value?

@Caitlin Damani be sure to understand if you are looking for a professional you're hiring for their expertise or a personal assistant to just do your bidding:)

Encourage you to learn from the mistakes of others - by reading posts here on BiggerPockets about owners not having their expectations met by their current Property Management Company.

To avoid going through the same poor experience, keep reading.

Even if someone give you a referral, don’t make the mistake of assuming that PMC will meet your expectations, just because they met the expectations of the referral source.

We also can’t believe how many owners hire the first PMC they speak with!

Then they complain their expectations aren’t being met!

In our experience, the #1 mistake owners make when selecting a Property Management Company (PMC) is ASSUMING instead of CONFIRMING.

It's often a case of not doing enough research, as they don't know what they don't know!

Owners mistakenly ASSUME all PMCs offer the exact SAME SERVICES and PERFORM those services EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, so price is the only differentiator – and they often select the first PMC they call!

So, the first question they usually ask a PMC is about fees - instead of asking about services and HOW those services are executed.

EXAMPLE: PMC states they will handle tenant screening – what does that specifically mean? What documents do they require, what credit scores do they allow, how do they verify previous rental history, etc.? You’d be shocked by how little actual screening many PMC’s do!

This also leads owners to ASSUME simpler is better when it comes to management contracts.

The reality is the opposite - if it's not in writing then the PMC doesn't have to provide the service or can charge extra for it!

We have a 14-page management contract that we've added our real experiences to over the years, with the intent of protecting both us AND the landlord. Beyond the Monthly Management, Placement & Maintenance fees, all other fees in our contract are IF EVENT -> THEN fees.

We don’t know any PMCs to recommend in the area mentioned, but since selecting the wrong PMC is usually more harmful than selecting a bad tenant, you might want to read our series about “How to Screen a PMC Better than a Tenant”:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91877-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-1-services-and-processes

We recommend you get management contracts from several PMCs and compare the services they cover and, more importantly, what they each DO NOT cover.

EDUCATE YOURSELF - yes, it will take time, but will lead to a selection that better meets your expectations & avoids potentially costly surprises!

P.S. If you just hire the cheapest or first PMC you speak with and it turns into a bad experience, please don’t assume ALL PMC’s are bad and start trashing PMC’s in general. Take ownership of your mistake and learn to do the proper due diligence recommended above😊

@Nikki Taylor are you trying to run a profitable business or a charity?

What do you think your tenants would do to you if they lost their job(s) and couldn't pay rent? Move out gracefully or because they have o fund to move anywhere else, stay for free as long as possible, forcing you to evict them?

While it is good business sense to balance rental increases vs lease renewals to avoid vacancies, it is NOT good business sense to let your rental rates lag market rates too much.

Recommend training your tenants to expect small increases EVERY year, otherwise many tenants form the opinion they should never have an increase - and actually will move and pay higher rents elsewhere rather than pay you higher rent! 

Always remember, "they are tenants, not homeowners, for a reason"!

Why would you post this turnkey opportunity without rents?

I'd ignore it just based upon that issue.

@Kendric Moore most of the issues are investors, 1) choosing the cheapest PMC they can find and 2) having unrealistic expectations.

Read below our "copy & paste" advice for investors looking to hire a PMC and DM us if you'd like to discuss further:)

Encourage you to learn from the mistakes of others - by reading posts here on BiggerPockets about owners not having their expectations met by their current Property Management Company.

To avoid going through the same poor experience, keep reading.

Even if someone give you a referral, don’t make the mistake of assuming that PMC will meet your expectations, just because they met the expectations of the referral source.

We also can’t believe how many owners hire the first PMC they speak with!

Then they complain their expectations aren’t being met!

In our experience, the #1 mistake owners make when selecting a Property Management Company (PMC) is ASSUMING instead of CONFIRMING.

It's often a case of not doing enough research, as they don't know what they don't know!

Owners mistakenly ASSUME all PMCs offer the exact SAME SERVICES and PERFORM those services EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, so price is the only differentiator – and they often select the first PMC they call!

So, the first question they usually ask a PMC is about fees - instead of asking about services and HOW those services are executed.

EXAMPLE: PMC states they will handle tenant screening – what does that specifically mean? What documents do they require, what credit scores do they allow, how do they verify previous rental history, etc.? You’d be shocked by how little actual screening many PMC’s do!

This also leads owners to ASSUME simpler is better when it comes to management contracts.

The reality is the opposite - if it's not in writing then the PMC doesn't have to provide the service or can charge extra for it!

We have a 14-page management contract that we've added our real experiences to over the years, with the intent of protecting both us AND the landlord. Beyond the Monthly Management, Placement & Maintenance fees, all other fees in our contract are IF EVENT -> THEN fees.

We don’t know any PMCs to recommend in the area mentioned, but since selecting the wrong PMC is usually more harmful than selecting a bad tenant, you might want to read our series about “How to Screen a PMC Better than a Tenant”:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91877-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-1-services-and-processes

We recommend you get management contracts from several PMCs and compare the services they cover and, more importantly, what they each DO NOT cover.

EDUCATE YOURSELF - yes, it will take time, but will lead to a selection that better meets your expectations & avoids potentially costly surprises!

P.S. If you just hire the cheapest or first PMC you speak with and it turns into a bad experience, please don’t assume ALL PMC’s are bad and start trashing PMC’s in general. Take ownership of your mistake and learn to do the proper due diligence recommended above😊

@Al K. This appears to really be 100% your fault.

1) You signed a contract allowing your PMC to renew without your approval. 
--Why is that anyone's problem, but yours?

2) You got what you paid for.
--You stated, "falling for his simple, relatively cheap Property Mangement service package", implying you hired them for their low costs.

If you're so unhappy, why aren't you terminating their services?

@Leo Martinez What about Detroit, MI?

We think the Midwest is a GREAT place for OOS investors to consider!

YES, we may be a little biased, but check out our blog here on BP comparing Detroit to other cities and Deep Dives on Metro Detroit cities & neighborhoods:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

(BP search feature can be problematic, so we’ve also added links @ our website under View Cities & Neighborhoods We Service)

Your biggest question shouldn't be WHERE to invest, but HOW you will invest!

Many OOS investors set themselves up for failure because they don't invest the time to ACTUALLY understand:

1) The Class of the NEIGHBORHOOD they are buying in - which is relative to the overall area.

2) The Class of the PROPERTY they are buying - which is relative to the overall area.

3) The Class of the TENANT POOL the Neighborhood & Property will attract - which is relative to the overall area.

4) The Class of the CONTRACTORS that will work on their Property, given the Neighborhood location - which is relative to the overall area.

5) The Class of the PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANIES (PMC) that will manage their Property, given the Neighborhood location and the Tenants it will attract - which is relative to the overall area.

6) That a Class X NEIGHBORHOOD will have mostly Class X PROPERTIES, which will only attract Class X TENANTS, CONTRACTORS AND PMCs and deliver Class X RESULTS.

7) That OOS property Class rankings are often different than the Class ranking of the local market they live.

8) Class A is relatively easy to manage, can even be DIY remote managed from another state. Can usually allot 5-10% vacancy factor and same for maintenance.

9) Class B usually also okay, but needs more attention from owner and/or PMC. Vacancy and maintenance factors should be higher than for Class A as homes will be older, have more deferred maintenance and tenants will be harder on them.

10) Class C can be relatively successful with a great PMC (do NOT hire the cheapest!), but very difficult to DIY remote manage. Vacancy and maintenance factors should be higher than for Class A or B. Homes will have even more deferred maintenance and tenants will be even harder on them.

11) Class D pretty much requires an OWNER to be on location and at the property 3-4 times/week. Most quality PMCs will not manage these properties as they understand most owners won’t pay them enough for the time required and even then it’s too difficult successfully manage them.
***Only exception is if an owner has plan & funds to reposition Class D to Class C or higher.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/776/topics/960183-what-they-dont-tell-you-about-cheap-rental-properties?highlight_post=5562799&page=3#p5562799

Also, SERIOUSLY consider - do you really have the time to be a DIY landlord or should you hire a PMC?

Let us know if we can help in any other way.😊