All Forum Posts by: Account Closed

Hubzu is legit, but works better for the seller than the buyer. The term "auction" is misleading, because the seller has zero obligation to accept any offer at any price. The MLS list is usually much higher. Each property will have different terms, so watch for that (tech fee, commissions, etc).

LOL. You just came on BP and asked where we park money. 

The first route I take is to not allow pets, for the very reasons you are experiencing.

Cats are worse than dogs. They often pee to mark territory and their urine is much more concentrated than dogs. Cat pee can sink into the joists or concrete and the smell might never come out.

The problem with dogs are dog owners. All dogs can be trained to respect property. Humans are much harder to train.

I've tried allowing dogs and because of the way some people treat animals, I just say no. Want a pet? Go buy your own house.

I'm a cat person. I have two. The one just puked at my feet while I was writing this. Thanks kitty. I'm very lucky and have cats that do not mark the house. Any cat that marks gets evicted. I love dogs too, but prefer other peoples dogs to having one myself.

IMO, you are trying to juggle policy a bit. If you allow pets, expect what you are getting. If you don't want what you're getting, don't allow pets.

This link shows that you are required to be licensed to appraise real estate in New Jersey:

http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/rea

From that page, you can navigate to the laws concerning appraisal in New Jersey, where you will find the definition of appraisal:

http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/Statutes/realesta...

Here is a link to a bulletin from your state addressing BPO's, and probably where you got the idea that so long as you state it is not an appraisal, it is not an appraisal:

http://www.state.nj.us/dobi/bulletins/blt13_05.pdf

However, if you read the entire text and not just the part that says you should place a disclaimer statement in a BPO, it clearly says a BPO is an appraisal. Circling back to the first link, you will remember you must be a licensed appraiser to do perform an appraisal. The thing to truly think about here, is that just because you say it is not an appraisal, does not make it not an appraisal. An appraisal is an appraisal because it is an appraisal, not because of the way it is labeled. Make sense? (You could say you are not a drug dealer when you sell drugs, but you are still a drug dealer.)

The bulletin (last link) references two sets of laws and notes that the laws are intended to be changed in the future for clarity. That in itself ought to give a person reason for pause, because just because one set of laws says ok, that doesn't mean you can't be punished under another set of laws (think about the drug laws on the state and federal levels for example).

There are two exemptions for which New Jersey allows a broker to perform an appraisal (BPO). The first is in connection with a listing. The second is for a state chartered bank or for a federally chartered bank, when the federally related transaction does not require an appraiser (that's how I read it). As far as when a federally related transaction does not require an appraiser as I understand it, is never (that's why appraisers exist my friend, its a law to use them). However the laws are complicated, there may be exceptions, and I would advise you look into them before jumping into such murky waters. Research what a federally related transaction is, and you might discover law so thick it will make your head spin.

Like I said, abuse is rampant and the laws change from state to state. Enforcement has not yet happened and I stress the word yet. The last thing you should do is trust others who are doing them, because most don't understand the laws in the first place. You may be getting very bad advice in those cases. Remember, each $50 appraisal you do could be a separate offense.

The laws in WI are much more clear than they are in New Jersey. So, for any would-be broker-appraisers out there, I advise all of you research the law before you leap into doing them.

 You could have saved a lot of time and just said that.

Right. So first of all, your story is written in a way that is difficult to discern exactly what the case is. The final statement about working to acquire a listing is valid, and is of course why a broker would do a BPO on the cheap and also provides a legal basis to do it in the first place. However, and this is where the wording of the story is key, if the broker in the story does a BPO for a portfolio, and they do not have a listing contract with a lender, they are doing it as a "favor" (and I say favor because of the low fee) for a potential client type who may, or may not, have listings for them in the future, and that may be illegal. This may seem like a fine line and it is, however in appraisal, the intended use of the appraisal is always key. I would say this sort of engagement walks a very dangerous line. The key difference is doing BPOs to acquire a certain client, vs doing a BPO to acquire a certain listing.

Now, the wording of the engagements and stated purposes of valuations on reports could be massaged (and when I say massaged, I mean misrepresented) to get around these sorts of troubles, however that would open up an ethics can of worms for the lender (and for a knowledgeable broker), who believe it or not, like to avoid such things. Then again, it would shock me not to find that occurring. Lenders are quite pleased with their $50 inspection/valuations. Why any broker would do these for so little is mind-boggling. I wouldn't show up for an inspection for $50, let alone research, develop and write up a report. A desk-top appraisal is worth more than $50, or so one would think.

What would be acceptable, is a bank that engaged a broker for a price opinion, when the bank was soliciting brokers to list the property. This would be the stage when the bank has decided to sell the property. What would also be acceptable, is once the broker attained the specific listing, the bank then wanted a subsequent BPO for portfolio purposes, because the broker would be servicing the clients specific needs pertaining to a specific listing already under listing contract.

So, if you were a broker who had the REO contract for a lender, meaning it would be you who was going to list and sell all the properties, you could do BPOs for portfolios. However, if you did not have a listing contract, but wanted to get one from a certain lender, and thought you would do a bunch of portfolio BPOs for them in an effort to win their affection and potentially their business down the line, you might be breaking the law. Its always about the stated intended use of the appraisal. If that use is portfolio, I would advise you are under listing contract with the lender first.

If you are doing a BPO for lending purposes, you are likely breaking the law.

Different states may have different rules, so I would check with your state.

I wonder what I have said, or not said, that would make you even ask that question? This has been a fun thread and very interesting and definitely has got me thinking about some things, but I don't see where its going in a constructive direction anymore. If you have something to say, say it.

That's funny you ask that because I have wondered that very thing. I don't know the answer. I don't like when people cook with too much grease. It tends to damage walls to the point of needing to scrape them down and repaint, and the grease attaches itself, along with the smell, in pretty much everything, to the point that a typical security deposit would not cover the expense of removing the grease and the smells from everywhere. Not only is it nasty to the house, I worry about the personal health of the occupants!!! I entertained the idea of offering a discount for vegans, but for the reasons we are discussing in this thread, have never done that, or anything else to address the problem, at least not on the application/acceptance side. Certainly nothing illegal about what someone eats (not yet), so I don't know how this is relevant to the thread.

What I do however, is have a maintenance and cleaning agreement that goes above and beyond the typical lease language. I specify what is expected, to the extent I can under law, and have my tenants sign it. I say to the extent of the law, because in WI the tenants responsibilities are written into law, which include what they must do and also, what they are not liable for (normal wear and tear for instance). I write that they agree to follow the rules of cleaning and maintenance, unless otherwise prohibited by law. Maybe I can enforce this, maybe I cant, but I don't worry about any discrimination suit against me because of it. If you like to deep-fry food every night, you are going to be responsible to clean that disgusting stuff off the stove, cabinets, walls, baseboards and floors, not me - it creates a safety hazard on the floor too.

I've had tenants who eat like that, and what I do is gift them a copy of Forks Over Knives, which often turns people instantly vegan, or at least gets them to stop eating so much grease - lol. I recommend you check it out too!

LOL. Well, in my state, and in most states, you could be acting illegally for appraising without a license. Until recently in WI, it was illegal for a broker to appraise without a license, period. Lobbyist groups successfully got the law changed to allow brokers to perform appraisals, however only in certain circumstances. The circumstances are limited to servicing or attempting to solicit a listing client. This makes sense as a simple valuation of property would be necessary to a broker for these purposes, and the lobbyists used this scenario as the basis to get the law changed. However, abuse of the law is rampant in this state and across the country, where banks are ordering BPOs for all sorts of uses outside of listing services. Being an insider to the valuation industry, I can tell you these infractions are thousands, maybe millions of occurrences.

Further, it is likely required a BPO be developed by a broker, not an agent, but don't quote me on that part, just food for thought.

Abuse of this will likely continue until enforcement happens, which has so far not happened. However, consider that each appraisal you do, and yes it is an appraisal (in most states by definition), could be a separate offense.

Banks have less liability, except they have ordered and relied upon a product that was illegally developed. They have lots of lawyers and lobbyist, so maybe they wont ever get in trouble.

Brokers have the NAR, so maybe they wont get in trouble either.

All said, this is a lawsuit waiting to happen. The valuation industry is currently in turmoil, so I would advise that this sort of thing may be on the lawmakers radar. BPOs were recently allowed to help with some of the valuation industry problems, but they have not helped and could be argued have caused problems. Lawmakers are currently looking for solutions for the industry, so again, I would advise to not think the issue is off the radar, just because the abuse has yet to be enforced. 

Like I said, brokers in WI may perform appraisals only when it is in connection with an existing listing or in attempt to acquire a listing. So, if a broker does a BPO for portfolio purposes or any lending, they are performing an appraisal illegally in WI, which they do en-mass every day. I am going to laugh very hard if the hammer ever comes down on those that have performed appraisals illegally. Each one of them should have known better and they all acted with disregard for the law to earn a profit. The reason this can be significant, is that it could harm the public. Here's an example from personal experience.

I personally got a HELOC where the bank used a BPO for the valuation. There is exactly zero excuse the broker could use to justify performing an appraisal in that case - but they went right out and did it anyways. The broker over-valued the property by quite a bit, enough that if I had borrowed all the bank was willing to lend, I would have been far enough underwater to cause serious problems. The terms of the HELOC changed a short time later, and the bank sent out a second broker. During conversation with the second broker, she asked me what the first broker valued the property at and I told her. She also appeared to have that information without asking, as she used what I said to confirm what was written on her assignment sheet. She then made the statement that "I don't like to come in under the first one". True to her word, she came in higher than the first. The only thing that saved me was that I am an appraiser and knew what the likely value of my property really was, so I didn't borrow more than I knew was prudent. The problem is, most people don't know what their own property is worth and will rely on a "professional" valuation instead. Brokers are not licensed appraisers and subsequently are not held to any standards - it's a free for all without any recourse for the public. This is one way people get underwater and end up in foreclosure. Good for REI, bad for everyone else.

Check with your state to see what is and what is not allowed. Check with federal rules too. Have fun with that - lol.

LOL. I suppose I could gather witness for my defense from all the brown people I rent to, which so far has been 100%. Do you suppose that would count for anything? Provide some federal case law where the only evidence against a landlord for discriminatory behavior was denying and reporting unlawful presence and then I think you have a point. Until then, you play lawyer and speculate. I sleep just fine with my policies. I will continue to verify identity and I will continue to report suspected unlawful behavior, as are my right and civil duty respectively.

Was the landlord aware? How is it even possible they were not aware? Why did they not come forward? They didn't want to lose rent? 

Sounds like unlawful behavior for profit to me. I could be wrong. They say each person in the US commits 3-4 felonies a day, so...

The problem for landlords is consistency, as you and others have pointed out. I do not get to pick and choose which suspicious behaviors to report, and my personal politics don't factor either. If I suspect drug use in my unit, I should report it. If I suspect a counterfeiter resides in my unit, I should report it. And if I suspect an unlawful presence resides in my unit, I should report it. Its not fair to all the people who have been penalized for infractions to let certain choice offenders get a blind eye. I report, the higher authorities do what they will do.

If we don't like certain laws, the appropriate course of action is to work to get them changed. I suppose willful disregard is an option too (I forget the legal term for that), though that is a risky endeavor too. Ask all the convicted drug users how that worked out for them.

I suppose we will all need to make these choices wont we?