All Forum Posts by: Chris Clothier

I recently wrote an article on 3 Web Sites that really transformed our real estate investing business from 2010 to now. At a time when we were working hard to improve every facet of our company, we also began to use technology and web based companies or sites to enhance our mission. BiggerPockets was one of those 3 sites and this is exactly how we/I have used Bigger Pockets to make it our BIGGEST online lead source and at a fraction of the cost for other traditional lead sources.

First - Understand that BiggerPockets is really not that powerful by itself. If it were nothing more than a web address with one guy posting or writing or selling ads, it would not be all that powerful. But that is what makes Bigger Pockets different and when I realized this I began implementing a plan to use it for all its power. There are nearly 100,000 UNIQUE users who have registered accounts on Bigger Pockets and many of those users are active investors. Those investors, like myself, spend some time on the site everyday and that is why it is so powerful. A site full of your target audience that log on every day and interact.

Second - I used what comes naturally to me and that is an open and willing to share form of marketing. I like to share and educate and so I set out to to perform "edu-marketing". Educate first, show you may actually know something and even more important are willing to admit what you don't know and many will come to respect you. For months, I did nothing but respond on forums, write an occasional blog on the site, link articles I thought were interesting and leave comments on articles or blog posts that fit my core knowledge. I gave a lot of advice. I was also polite.

It may sound stupid, but that was my personality. I treated people the way i wanted to be treated and when someone was rude to me, I tried to kill em with kindness. I believe that I earned a reputation that I truly felt I deserved and that was of someone who would freely help others and was willing to engage in good conversation and debate. I never let it bother me if someone disagreed with me, I simply wanted others to know that I believed in my opinion and could back it up.

Third - I realized that BiggerPockets was a great linking site. So even though I wasn't trying to sell houses on the site, I still listed my properties on there and used each listing for backlinks. The same thing with my blog on the site, I made sure that i linked each blog back to my site or a particular page on my site to take advantage of the great back links.

Fourth - Once I had spent time on the site, I decided to test the marketing waters and run ads on the site. I made a conscious decision to run two types of ads. I ran ads that linked to landing pages for educational videos. These were videos that we had recorded in our offices and were detailed. Many still run today on BiggerPockets. We identified our brand and company on the videos and had a registration from for viewers prior to watching the video.

The second ad we ran was strictly a branding ad. It identified a need for investors and invite them to learn about our company. There was no registration form and no data collection. Just a simple redirect back to our website. These types of ads are used by us to build our brand recognition and to show, again, that education is first.

These ads, placed as banners on the site and within the newsletters, have generated several thousand hits and several hundred leads. We use a very laid-back approach when reaching out to these leads, but every one hears from us directly to see if there is any way we can be of service. When potential leads click on our branding ads and go directly to the website, many end up registering to receive more information on our company. When these leads identify where they learned about our company, BiggerPockets has become the #1 answer today.

Admittedly, we are doing a lot more on BiggerPockets today than on other sites, but that is simply because the users on bigger pockets are active investors and many are interested in learning ways to earn invest passively. I hate the cliches, but this is the exact target audience we want to reach and taking extra time to build an online presence before marketing has really paid off.

If you are going to use BiggerPockets to develop an online presence, then I believe this is the blueprint for finding success. It is not as simple as place ads on the site. Many of the users are very savvy real estate investors and whether they ever purchase from you is not the primary reason for engaging. As an investor and as a business person, I have learned a ton from other BP users and in turn have honed and improved the outreach we do on the site. Today, nearly 30% of our monthly leads can come from Bigger Pockets and that is a tremendous improvement over other online ads such as PPC ads and Facebook.

I wanted to share our story and generate some discussion from other real estate companies or entrepreneurs who are wanting figure out how to use BiggerPockets to develop brand awareness and stimulate business.

Jarred -

I'm probably not the traditional seller you are looking for when asking this question, but in the past, I would cover all of the closing costs that their lender would let me cover and often part of the agents commission as well. Of course, my strategy was to add some unexpected features and price at the very top of the market. So putting in those benefits and allowing the buyer to essentially wrap those costs into their mortgage for 15-30 year write down. Seemed to work to my advantage on most deals and attracted buyers.

Joshua Dorkin - This is going to be a killer feature!

Many of us are only able to spend small amounts of time on the site and I mostly engage in the forums and on topics that others start. Being able to share real time with my colleagues and read real time what they have going on is a huge plus and will absolutely encourage me to spend more minutes each day on the site.

This is a powerful site. Be on the lookout for some numbers I am going to share this week. About how BP is turning into the biggest lead source I have online - seriously outpacing every other online source I use. This feature will only allow me to forge even stronger relationships.

I am gong to share this thread on Twitter & Google+. This is really good stuff -

Chris

Dennis Tierney excellent job in securing that funding because it is certainly not out there unless you are willing to really dig and work for it.

Marc Faulkner I can tell you one thing they are doing which is picking certain companies to work with and sticking to it. Many of the private funding companies I know of are being very cautious when it comes to the companies they are working with. They are choosing very carefully on the companies and giving strict guidelines such as size of property, location of property, valuation of property. Since the asset is the only real recourse they will have, they want to make sure they are lending in good areas regardless of price.

As far as qualification for borrower, they are looking closely at existing assets and ability to pay. Most are asking for 4-6 months reserves across a portfolio. They are willing to lend up to 15 years for well qualified borrowers on great houses, but otherwise are very happy lending for 7-10 years. They usually frown upon any assistance from the seller. What other questions do you have? I can send you a couple of companies that we work with on PM if you want. It sounds like you are trying to figure out a way in this lending space - is that correct?

Marc Faulkner - Unfortunately, there simply are not a lot of banks that are making these types of non-recourse loans and a majority of the lending is done by private firms. Even the banks that are making the loans, have extremely strict guidelines that exclude a large majority of investment buyers today. As noted above, the banks themselves simply do not need to make these loans, even though there would be significant demand if they offered them.

In regards to a lot of the discussion already on here, there are some very good private firms that are lending and they are getting creative to protect themselves from loss. Requiring between 40% and 50% down I think is pretty standard now a days as well as charging rates between 9.9% an 11.9%. Those rates sound high, which they are, but the terms are shorter - usually 7-10 years. When compared to standard bank rates and 30 year AM, the interest is about 1/4. That is a significantly lower amount of interest when borrowing 11.9% at 7 years. Since many SDIRA buyers are looking to build future income, borrowing at these rates and paying them off in 7-10 years without realizing significant cash flow is appealing since they are able to leverage and buy more property.

The other creative thing some private firms are doing is securing a quit claim deed to be executed if the borrower falls 60 days behind (some are asking for execution at 45 days). This protects the lender from the cost and time of foreclosure. If they are lending on a property below market value and asking for 40-50% down, then they are in a very good position when they take the property back.

Ken Latchers - I don't disagree with you on the marketing hyperbole and you did say most not all. You are on point and I agree that it is a shame that marketing works so well and so many people are susceptible to marketing techniques that help them down the road to parting with their money and not necessarily making more of it.

I also agree with all the points on here about finding great value when chatting with the participants on the BP forums. You just have to know when all the chatter stops and you have to actually start doing. Thanks for the thread Ken - good back and forth as usual.

And a valued opinion at that! It's part of what makes this site great.

I kind of relate it to having a trainer for physical conditioning. I know I need to be in shape and I know everything I am supposed to do. I can watch late night TV for hours and get pitched every last piece of plastic junk that is guaranteed to make me look 18 again. But I don't need it. What I do need is a trainer that can give me great personal eating tips, training tips and hold me accountable to my workouts both with him and without him each week. I think it is very similar. I can get all the answers online, but I want the coach. I want the person who I can go to when I need it. I have a lot of friends with trainers who are dumber than two rocks and they get horrible advice and they pay the same thing i do. I would say that would about sum up the real estate 'guru' mentor/coach field as well!

Is anyone on here familiar with banking regulation? It is my understanding that banks must keep capital reserves equal to the value of non-performing notes on their balance sheets. The banks losses were insured to a very high level so you are correct that they have already taken their hits and recorded the loss, but carrying non-performing assets places pressure on the banks by limiting their true source of income which is lending. They cannot lend when they are having to hold capital to cover the value of those np notes. That is my understanding and I could be wrong - so I posted it here.

Other than that, we are not having any problems finding inventory in either Memphis or Dallas/Ft Worth and we are getting the inventory at or below the pricing we want to pay. Not sure about other markets, but we are still having a great deal of success.

Unfortunately, when you take an unpopular stance, especially on a message board, sometimes you get piled on Aaron Mazzrillo. The reality is that everyone learns differently and some can find inner-motivation and others cannot. Most of us on this forum agree, and Arron stated as much, that not every program or every seminar weekend or home study course or 'Guru" pitch is legitimate or even useful, but there are a great many that are very good.

As has always been stated on here, do our homework and know who you are listening to before purchasing anything. This whole notion that because someone sells something it must mean they were no good at actually doing it is crazy. I personally know many very good people who coach/mentor and actively promote products for others and they are still very active day-to-day in their craft. And yes, both are very profitable.

Bill Gulley, I love your opinions and I love reading your posts, but I have to disagree with you on your post about everything you could ever need being right here and being free. I consider Josh a good friend and a great business confidant, but no website, not even Bigger Pockets can provide every answer you need. Often times, the answers you need are to the questions inside you - not the posts on the forums. You can get a great deal of information on Bigger Pockets and it is by far the best site on the internet for networking, learning and developing. But, even Bigger Pockets cannot replace mentorship and coaching as well as the motivation to succeed created when the right person connects with the right piece of information or the right teacher.

I think way too often every program, coach, seminar or opportunity are lumped in together and all called junk. Most of it is, but there are some very good people who are not only still active, but doing exceptionally well and they are providing some excellent services, programs and systems out there today. Decipher the good from the bad is the hard part.