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All Forum Posts by: Sam Grooms

Sam Grooms has started 13 posts and replied 557 times.

You can generally get more by going to market. You'll have savings by not involving an agent, but usually not enough to make up for the discount you're giving to the seller. 

If you do accept one of these offers, just get them to pay all closing costs. Have the contract read exactly what you're to receive, "net" of any fees. If your sales price is $1M, you're to receive $1M at closing, net of all closing costs and fees. 

Post: How Do Syndicated Apartment Holds Fail?

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919
Originally posted by @Jason Merchey:

Help me understand. Is it not the logical route to buy at a certain cap rate, and try to sell it for a lower cap rate? I get that 8% ROI is "more money" than 7% ROI, but I thought that lowering the cap rate was the way to increase the sale price. For example, $100k of NOI at an 8-cap is a $1.25m sale price, more or less, whereas $100k in NOI sold as a 7-cap is a $1.43m sale price.

First, cap rate and ROI are not the same thing. Second, cap rate is just the relationship between price and income. If I buy at a 5 cap, that was the relationship between price and income at the time of purchase. Now, as I improve the property, my price is constant, but my income goes up. Therefore, my cap rate as it relates to my purchase price goes up. My income is now equivalent to purchasing at an 8 cap. Yes, I can turn around and now sell it for a 5 cap, which is a lot lower, and realize a huge gain. But you can also decide to cash flow, now that your income is up to an 8 cap's income level, if you want cash flow instead of a lump sum (the gain).

As for trying to buy high and sell low, that's just speculation. So while it may be logical, its not a strategy. 

Post: How Do Syndicated Apartment Holds Fail?

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
Originally posted by @Jason Merchey:

@Theo Hicks , I am going to Rod Khleif's "multifamily bootcamp" in Denver this week. Any feedback on him, his method, or his syndication acumen? Was definitely thinking of parking some capital with his new enterprise, REM Capital. 

 Rod's message is valid, but not particularly viable, in my opinion. The message is:

I had millions. I lost everything because I bought strictly for appreciation (which was obviously a bad idea) and disregarding CF, and when the market crashed I couldn't hold on. So, now I buy for CF.

The challenge with this is the following:

While we need some amount of CF to stay through the cycles, you are not going to have meaningful CF unless your basis hits at least 7.5 - 8 cap upon your acquisition. However, the high growth markets today tend to trade underneath that. Phoenix, where I buy, is at 5 on stabilized assets.

This means that Rod's rationale necessarily pushes him out of the highest growth markets, and what follows is this question: 

We are late in the cycle - is it really a good idea to buy outside of growth markets to begin with, regardless of what kind of CF you can pencil? Or, is it a better idea to pay a premium in a market that is growing like crazy?

This is a question Rod answered for himself, and so have I. Our answers are opposite. You have to decide what makes the most sense to you.

You can cash flow in Phoenix, you just can't buy the cash flow. It must be created. You'll need a large value add to get your sub 5 cap purchase up to a 7.5/8 cap, but it's achievable. At that point, you can realize your gain and sell, which is what most value add investors do. But you can also hold on for cash flow. You now have an 8 cap in Phoenix, one of the best growth markets in the country, instead of a secondary or tertiary market. That's some powerful cash flow that has a lot of room to grow. 

Post: How Do Syndicated Apartment Holds Fail?

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919
Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:

I just see too many people in this game who act like experts. People who have been investing the last several years in a bull market with historically low interest rates. My favorite is the IRR numbers I see 5 years from now. Biggest bunch of bs there is. You have NO WAY of knowing what your sale is going to look like in 5 years, none. The entire thing is an assumption and everything needs to go right to work over 5 years.

It's absolutely all based on assumptions. But everything doesn't have to go right for your 5 year projection to be correct. If you underwrite conservatively (excess cap inflation, excess interest rate increase, pad your expenses to give your NOI some room, leave some upside in your rent projections, double your economic loss from today's averages, etc.), you can significantly outperform if everything goes right. 

Post: How Do Syndicated Apartment Holds Fail?

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919

Due diligence is impossible for the average person? I'm pretty sure the average person can look at projected rents and comparables and see if the two are in line. They can look at assumptions used and see if they're conservative enough. They can ask the sponsor for deal history and contact information of current investors.  If someone can't do some fairly simple due diligence tasks, they shouldn't be investing in syndications at any point of a cycle. 

Post: How Do Syndicated Apartment Holds Fail?

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919
Originally posted by @Spencer Gray:

@Account Closed why would competitors invest in each other's deals? 

I'm invested in syndications where I'm not the sponsor. One benefit is diversification (and truly passive income). Another is seeing what colleagues (I don't look at them as competitors) are doing. Call it market research (market being syndications, not the real estate market/economy). I've implemented changes to our financial reporting from what I've seen other's doing. 

Post: CLOSED on a 98-unit TODAY!

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919

Here are some before and after pics, too. 

Post: How Do Syndicated Apartment Holds Fail?

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:

@Jay Hinrichs alluded to management, but here are some ways to fail strictly related to underwriting:

  1. Underestimating operating expenses
  2. Underestimating expense growth
  3. Overestimating repositioned rents
  4. Overestimating rent growth (post stabilization)
  5. Underestimating capital expenditures
  6. Not enough reserves
  7. Not enough contingencies
  8. Not inflating exit cap rate enough
  9. Not inflating interest rates enough (if not fixed)

As an investor, you need to be able to understand and "check" all of these out during your due diligence. 

yes and this all falls to management doing their job.. right ? 

 Absolutely. I wasn't sure if you meant investment/asset management (sponsor) or property management, but both can ruin your investment. 

Post: How Do Syndicated Apartment Holds Fail?

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919

@Jay Hinrichs alluded to management, but here are some ways to fail strictly related to underwriting:

  1. Underestimating operating expenses
  2. Underestimating expense growth
  3. Overestimating repositioned rents
  4. Overestimating rent growth (post stabilization)
  5. Underestimating capital expenditures
  6. Not enough reserves
  7. Not enough contingencies
  8. Not inflating exit cap rate enough
  9. Not inflating interest rates enough (if not fixed)

As an investor, you need to be able to understand and "check" all of these out during your due diligence. 

Post: CLOSED on a 98-unit TODAY!

Sam GroomsPosted
  • Investor
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 583
  • Votes 919
Originally posted by @William Kim:

@Ben Leybovich @Sam Grooms Congrats on this deal that happened almost a year ago now!  How's everything going so far on the property?  Investors getting their (monthly/quarterly) payments? :) 

As Sam is aware, I'm new to the real estate world and syndication does intrigue me quite a bit as I'm a working professional not looking to leave just yet, but want to create "passive" and not active income streams.  Trying to digest a lot of information through browsing BP forums, podcasts, and posts and various other resources.  

Everything is moving right along. Most of the common area and exterior projects have been completed. We have painted the property, finished the landscaping, added a fitness center, updated the laundry room, renovated the pool area, and rebranded the property. The office remodel and business center will start next week.

As for the interiors, 25 units have been renovated, all of which are leased at or above our projected rents. In fact, most units are preleased before the renovation is complete. We haven't received any push back from the marketplace on our post-renovation rents, so we recently increased them another $30 on average. 6 more are currently being renovated.

Here is a graph from last month's reporting showing NOI since we took over.