All Forum Posts by: Seth M.

Sam, I expect we’ll end up doing what you suggest to avoid further delays resolving this disagreement. — Clint, we’ve pointed out the cause of the initial issue to the parents several times. Unfortunately, it’s the management company’s word against their kids. Communication on this has been strange - the manager calls, emails, or texts the kids and their parent(s) reply sometimes if anyone does at all. It seems we hear nothing until we’re contacted with a crisis.

Mike S., I oversimplified but will confirm method with the abatement company. Our maintenance guy initially responded but we had an abatement company do most of the work. Trim was replaced, block wall was scraped/treated and we got under carpet and behind adjacent and upper walls to confirm no hidden areas. In addition the air quality test didn’t tell us we had an ongoing problem. I’ve considered a follow up air test, but am wondering if there are home kits or if purchasing testing equipment would be cheaper than the $600 charge by the local testing agency. Has anyone tried mail in or personally owned equipment to check for airborne mold?

Alex - thanks for the input. At the least we'll be doing the same, although the insulation issue still isn't an obvious reason for the tenant complaints.

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Nathan G. - Interesting points regarding security deposit and requiring tenants to fix their problem in xx days. Although we did provide written notice we were charging the security deposit because they caused the issue the work was already done. 

In hindsight that seems to be a more sensible approach than we took. When confronted with visible mold in the laundry area our instinct was to act immediately, which may have been the first step in the tenant's parents belief it was not the fault of their kids. As you mentioned, it's clear we've over compensated for tenant negligence which has emboldened the parents (who only get half the story from their college kids) to make unreasonable demands.

Moving forward in this situation I'm going to maintain the offer of 3 month early out on the lease to avoid further headache, but draw a line stating we can go the legal route if they want more, in which case I'll claim the remainder of the rent in addition to an legal fees.

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I'm trying hard to see this from the parents perspective and be as reasonable as I can. 

HI Alex, sounds like you went through a similar experience. Thanks for the tip on the relative humidity, I'll look in to it. 

Did you find evidence of mold when you tore the house apart?

Hello BP community - I'm reaching out with a question following a series of events (some mold related) that has led to 3 of 4 college tenants in my SFR having their parents request release from their lease 3 months early due to perceived air quality concerns.

Background (University rental in MN - lease started Jun 17 with 4 college roommate - parents cosigned and pay rent):

- In Sep 17 we had a minor roof leak that was corrected immediately (flashing)after notification with only minor paint damage and no sign of mold (from the attic or interior wall). 

- In Nov 17 tenant's parents (these are college students) call my property manager to report a broken dryer and mold growth in the basement laundry room, a bedroom above the laundry room, and in the bathroom. As soon as notified the management company's maintenance crew is on site. They determine the mold is due to; (1) tenants causing crazy high humidity basement humidity by running the dryer without ever cleaning out the lint trap and (2) not cleaning the bathroom

- All mold is abated with bleach, a second dehumidifier is placed in the basement, carpets are lifted, trim is replaced, and we investigated behind walls. No sign of mold following November's abatement. 65% of their security deposit was used to cover a portion of this abatement because dryer negligence caused the issue.

- In Dec 17 there are no visible sign of mold but a mother calls the property manager requesting an air quality test because her son has respiratory problems. 

- Dec 17 we do the test and it reveals mild elevation (500-1500 ppm) of either Penicillium (laundry room, 1 bedroom) or Cladosporium (bathroom). Both non-toxic common varieties. All other rooms and mold types were non-detect or below outside air levels. This range is reportedly not reason for alarm within an enclosed living area if no visible mold present. We complied with all recommendations from testing company (check behind walls, under carpet, etc). 

- Jan 17 mother of same tenant tells us there is moisture in her sons bedroom following 2 weeks of -20 below temperatures. We investigate and determine insulation is inadequate in the corner of the room and tell them we'll reduce rent to open the wall and re-insulate (no mold present). Due to the series of complaints from the mother we decided to offer him a bedroom in a vacant 1 bedroom unit owned by the mgt company and forgive the remaining 3 months on the lease in order to access the wall insulation in his bedroom.

- Feb 17 parents of brothers in the unit call saying they need their kids out of the house due to bronchitis and a skin rash on one brother. When they told the dermatologist they had mold in their house the doc said to get them out. At this point I step in to talk with the father who informs me his kids are only sick at the house, but not when visiting home. I walked him through our abatement, test results, and professional opinion given by both the abatement company and testing company, but he's sure his kids are sick from the house. He adds they haven't really lived there in two months for more than a couple days because they feel sick there.

- Today we offer to terminate the lease for the remaining 3 tenants but we hold remainder of the security deposit. This is a non-starter for one parent because they shouldn't be charged anything to leave a house they deem unhealthy. They countered with wanting back the entire security deposit because they're not convinced the dryer issue was their kid's fault.

That's a lot to unpack, and was typed fast so I apologize for grammar. My take:

- I feel we've been very accommodating with our offer and treatment of all complaints considering tenants caused these issues due to the dryer lint trap in November. We truly have spared no expense.

- At this point I don't know what more we can do to address the perceived mold issue because we've complied with every recommendation from a licensed abatement company and testing agency. The house seems very habitable, to the extent I'd feel comfortable living there with my family, unfortunately the parents of 3 of 4 tenants disagree with this assessment.

- I am sympathetic to what I believe are real health concerns by the tenant's parents, but i can't figure out how they can be tied to the house based on the mold test results or visual inspections completed by the management company's maintenance team or abatement company.

- based on what I feel was an unreasonable counter I'm not sure how to frame my response to the tenants.

My questions for the BP community:

- Could I be missing something causing real health issues? I would spare no expense if I found a problem.

- Should I make a claim against the tenants for the remaining 3 months of rent because the only issue we've had with the house that resulted in any mold (after extensive inspection) was due to tenant dryer negligence (i.e. if there is an issue it's tenant caused)?

- Other advice or similar stories anyone would like to share. We've rented to college students for 5 years and this is the first real issue we've had in this market.

Thanks for reading and your input!

Hi Alex, 

I’ve bought several investment properties through Mike Messina with Messina Realty in Duluth, MN. He’s been great to work with and used to run his firm’s property management office, giving him valuable insight for investors. Very knowledgeable on city codes and has been able to steer me away from a couple money pits over the years. 

I’d also strongly recommend Messina Property Management if you’re also looking for that service. Very responsive, well priced maintenance on staff, and no extra fee to place new tenants after turnover.

I’m happy to answer any other questions over the forum or PM. 

I'll defer to Jassem for the answer regarding having to go to court or mail. His experience seems more in depth than mine. I had an attorney file the forms for me before I realized that's ALL he had to do. 

The judgment for past rent is something you'll have to file and show up to court to complete. Still a standard form though. Regardless of when you file the unlawful detainer the tenants are on the hook financially until you get new tenants or their lease is up. Should be an easy judgment to win (probably by default) but will be hard to collect.

In my case I came to an agreement to receive partial payment of the judgment for satisfaction. 

Ian, I had a tenant break a lease and cause extensive damage to a condo in VA Beach a couple years ago. Good news, you can file unlawful detainer paperwork with the general district court without an attorney using standard forms found online - VA doesn't require attorney representation.

After the eviction is backed by the court you can use it to remove your tenants and receive a judgment for unpaid rent. 

I worked with a couple attorneys. I wasn't overly impressed with either and would see if you can work things out using standard forms first to avoid unnecessary costs.

One caveat - if dealing with active duty military you may want an attorney due to strict notification requirements (I.e. Guardian Ad Litem).

We have a few SFH rental properties in Duluth, MN. Joe is right, it means an inspection by the County (St. Louis for Duluth) fire inspector. If any compliance issues you'll be given a list of repairs necessary before a re inspection. In addition to the inspection there is a $2,500 license fee.

We include a statement in our offers "contingent on passing rental inspection."

As Joe said, the inspection should be welcomed as it's another set of eyes judginf your property. A bigger factor is the cost in Duluth, which needs to be factored in to your buy and hold numbers.

Hi Matt,

I'm an out of state investor consolidating our portfolio in , MN.

I'm not aware of a local group but am certain there are several investors up there based on the all cash competition bidding on investment properties.