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All Forum Posts by: Tom A.

Tom A. has started 20 posts and replied 343 times.

Post: Who does not use the 50% rule?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

This has been a good, thought-provoking thread.

One thing that seems to get overlooked in real estate investing, IMO due to the difficulty of estimating it, is risk. In the financial markets, returns are always looked at in relation to the riskiness of the investment. Stocks have their betas and bonds' cash flows are discounted at an appropriate rate to generate a risk-adjusted return.

While we as real estate investors do (or at least should) consider risk when making our investments, it's tough to quantify. For example, exactly how much more or less risky is an investment in a 3 bd 2 ba SFR in city A versus city B? Or a 3 bd vs. 4 bd house, or a multi where utilities are paid by the landlord vs. by the renter. What's the chance that the city will institute an inspection/fee program that clips your cash flow by 5%? What if the neighborhood gets better/worse and impacts your rents and appreciation? What if your state's budget crisis results in higher taxes and higher unemployment? How do we quantify all these idiosyncratic risks?

We can't, really. As a default, I think we often use our intuition in assessing the 1001 risk factors but I've seen investors just ignore them as well. Some compare levered and unlevered returns as apples-to-apples when obviously the risk profile is different.

Return is a two-dimensional number, but the risk aspect seems to fly under radar in non-institutional real estate investing.

Just one more thing to think about when considering what constitutes a good real estate investment.

Post: Deal or no deal?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306
Originally posted by Tenisha & Nicole Williams:
On the Westide,near southfield freeway

Thanks, but that covers a lot of ground. What cross street, or neighborhood are you talking about? I have a few Detroit buyers depending on the exact area. As you know, Detroit is kind of block by block.

Post: Deal or no deal?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

Tenisha, where in the city is the house?

Post: Something I'm Missing?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

You're welcome Jay. When you get to the US feel free to look me up. Since you'll be in the Detroit area I'll offer a few REIA recommendations.

- Michigan Real Estate Investors - Great REIA run by Wendy Patton of Lease-Option fame, meets in Troy, Mark Yuschak (great guy) goes to this one as well. http://www.michiganrealestateinvestors.com/

- Renegade Detroit Investors - Another great REIA, run by Jeremy Burgess. Smaller, no selling from front of the room allowed (no guru pitches). Meets in Berkley. http://www.facebook.com/DetroitInvestmentClub

- REIA of Oakland (County)- Grandaddy of local REIAs. Meets in Madison Heights. http://www.reiaofoakland.com

Hope to see you...

Post: Something I'm Missing?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

Hi Jay,

You got my attention when you mentioned the house is in Commerce Township. It was pretty easy to figure out which house you were talking about and it turns out I live about 4 miles from it. I'll give you a little more info that may explain why it appears to have been hanging around for so long, when it actually has had a number of seller-accepted offers over the last 14 months that it's been listed.

As you know, it's a short sale. What you may not realize is that the way our local multiple listing service (MLS) works is that if the seller of a short sale property accepts a buyer's offer then the status of the listing changes from ACTIVE to CCS. CCS means "Contingent - Continue to Show". There are various reasons for the contingency, it can be inspection, financing, or in this case, awaiting short sale approval from the bank.

Since the status code CCS says "continue to show" the listing is still considered an active listing despite the fact that there is a seller-accepted contract on the property, and these listings are rarely shown to any other potential buyers. Previously, short sales that were awaiting bank approval were given PENDING status, which meant they would not show up on searches of active listings. Listings with a status code of CCS however do show up as active listings even though the seller has accepted an offer.

That's the case with this house. It went CCS on March 16, meaning the seller has accepted a buyer's offer. Now, this doesn't mean that the buyer won't back out of the deal, or that the bank will accept the buyer's offer. In fact, this house was first listed as a short sale in January of 2011 and since then has gone CCS and then come back on the market five times. During that time the price has gradually been reduced from $116,990 to its current price of $73,900.

Obviously the house has some issues, probably related to the well and septic field since the listing mentions that it can be hooked up to city water and sewer for $24,000. Based on the length of time between when the house went CCS and when it came back on the market I suspect that some buyers backed out due to inspection issues and other buyers backed out because they were unable to get financing. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it come back on the market for a sixth time.

I looked at the comps in the area and I believe the two that you referenced are ranch-style site condos in the subdivision to the North. Those were built in 2001 and are more of a premium product than the house in question which was built in 1964. I would not use those as comps. There is a subdivision northwest of this property, across M-5, that's more comparable and in that subdivision homes are selling for around $110,000. I think the house in question is a lot closer to that number for ARV than $135,000.

Finally, while I apologize for the length of this post, there is one other valuation technique I use as a "sanity check" in areas where I am very familiar with the market. Since this is pretty much in my backyard, I know that home prices have dropped roughly 40% since 2002. The house in question sold for $167,000 back in 2002. Assuming, and this is a critical assumption, that that price represented a fair market value back then, this implies a current value around $100,000. It just so happens that the 2002 sale was a bank foreclosure, so that price may be slightly low. Then again, 2002 was a pretty strong year in the real estate market in Metro Detroit so the price didn't need to be discounted much.

Putting it all together, I think you can see why this house has been listed for so long, and why it's not much of a deal for an investor.

Post: Do you fix n' flip with granite and hardwood or laminate and linoleum?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

Mark Updegraff, I use a relative of a good friend but even without that connection, I've talked to a couple $29/sqft guys for the "A" (lower priced) grades of stone like Uba Tuba. Nothing wrong with Uba Tuba, in fact I really like colors in it. Goes well with cherry-finish cabinets and SS appliances.

Most people, including buyers, think it's more expensive than that and it is if you go to Home Depot or Lowes. The small independent guy has better pricing in my experience.

Post: How much the rent should be?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

An agent can give you actual "sold" lease rates on similar houses in your area. The other online sources I find to be pretty accurate sometimes and other times 20% - 30% off. The problem is you don't know which accuracy you're getting with any particular property.

You can also do a rent survey, which involves calling other rentals off craigslist or whatever is the dominant source in your area. Some people pretend to be a potential tenant but I've found that if you just level with the landlord you can get some good information. Some landlords will be happy to give you info, while others won't, don't worry about the secretive ones, just talk to the others.

Post: Do you fix n' flip with granite and hardwood or laminate and linoleum?

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

While it depends on the location and price level, my general philosophy is to make my flip a little nicer than the competition at the same price level. When a buyer walks in my flip after walking through 8 other houses I want them to notice the added sizzle features like granite countertops, that it's cleaner than other houses (i.e. windows washed inside and out) and it's tastefully staged. The objective is to make an emotional connection with the potential buyer that generates a strong offer.

Speaking of granite in particular, the price has come down so much that it's an affordable rehabbing choice in sub-$100K houses in my market. It still catches buyers' attention in the house or in the MLS listing verbiage. On the other hand, in this market it makes financial sense to refinish HW floors if they're already there, but not to install them in an entry level house.

Post: Rehab and refi under 75% of ARV

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

Hi Gary,

Are you pursuing short sales? I've seen better deals, and more of them with short sales than with REOs around here.

Post: My real estate agent horror story of the day. Let's hear yours!

Tom A.Posted
  • Investor
  • West Bloomfield, MI
  • Posts 358
  • Votes 306

Brian, your story takes the cake.

I've never had that bad of an experience but I've dealt with enough agents that I'd never willingly work with again that I went out and got my own real estate license. One of my wiser moves....