All Forum Posts by: Tom W.

As an HVAC contractor, I can tell you that dealing with refrigerant leaks are one of the worst situations that we have to deal with. The leak can be located in the outdoor unit, the indoor unit or in the piping anywhere in between. Refrigerant is colorless and odorless and the leaks can be very small. At least half of the interconnecting refrigerant piping is covered in insulation. Sometimes our electronic leak detectors will pick up the leak, sometimes not. Sometimes we have to add colored dye to the system to try and visually locate the leak. Sometimes this works, other times it doesn't. Sometimes we use soap bubbles on suspected leaking components. Again not a sure thing. Sometimes we will spend hours trying to find a leak, turn up nothing then have to disconnect the indoor and outdoor sections to pressurize each individually in an attempt to isolate the problem. All of this adds up to large labor bills. 

The suggestions that have been put forward here to just replace certain components because they are the ones that "usually leak" are laughable. Charging a customer to replace components on a guess without having proof would be totally irresponsible on the contractor's part. Would you expect your doctor to remove your appendix without doing further testing just because that's what usually causes pain in the lower abdomen? I don't think so. 

The cold hard truth in HVAC these days is that R-22 is going away. R-22 equipment is no longer being manufactured and sold except on a very limited basis in which the equipment is being shipped without the refrigerant. The amount of R-22 being manufactured has been reduced and will continue to be reduced until it is totally phased out over the next several years. Due to this reduction the price has been climbing exponentially. I was just informed last week that the price I pay has nearly doubled so far this year. Because of this skyrocketing cost, I advise customers to replace over repair whenever possible when it comes to leaking systems. The cost is going to be more than anyone wants to pay, either way. At least the replacement gives a longer life span to the equipment and reduced energy consumption due to higher efficiency levels.

Oleg Mikhailov The tenant complaints you are receiving are typical of an older steam heating system. In my experience I have very often seen that the boilers have been maintained or replaced over the years but very little has been done to maintain the rest of the system. Sometimes all that is required to bring everything into peak operating condition is some fairly minor repair work. A lot depends on the overall condition of the piping but here are some basics on steam systems. First, steam heating systems are not necessarily inefficient. They are usually not installed as new systems anymore because the initial upfront cost of materials and labor is way too high compared to most other choices these days. They also aren't as aesthetically pleasing as more modern systems and the radiators tend to take up a lot of floor space. They do, however, produce a nice even heat when they are operating correctly because once those big cast iron radiators are warmed up they hold that heat for quite awhile. Second, the main reason for complaints about uneven heating throughout a single pipe steam system is not a problem with the boiler or the piping system but with the air vents installed on each radiator. These vents have one function and that is to allow air to escape from the radiator. I'm sure if you have ever been near one of the radiators when the heating system is operating you have heard these vents hissing. Their function is to allow air to escape from the radiator so that it can fill with steam. Once the steam reaches the vent it closes and holds the steam in. It stays closed until the radiator begins to cool and the steam condenses then opens again to allow more steam in. Over the years these vents fail and either don't allow enough steam to enter causing a cold condition or they stick open allowing steam to enter nonstop causing too much heat plus allowing steam and water to leak out. These automatic vents are fairly inexpensive and easy to replace. There is a trick to them however. They come in different sizes so that they release air in different volumes. The larger ones are installed at the furthest radiators and the smaller ones closest to the boiler. The idea is to allow steam to reach all of the radiators at the same rate. Fortunately new vents can be installed that are adjustable so they can be fine tuned after installation so exact sizes don't have to be determined. The replacement of these vents will probably be the single best improvement you can make to improve your tenants comfort. Third, there are ways you can provide your tenants with individual heating control. There are thermostatically controlled valves that can be installed on each radiator. They are self contained and non-electric. They allow the tenant to adjust the output of the radiator by turning a dial on the valve. They are not as accurate as a new modern thermostat but they do allow the tenant some control. There are not overly expensive compared with your other options but they do not, however, provide a means of separate billing. Bottom line, find an HVAC contractor who is familiar with steam heating systems. This could be a little difficult since we tend to be a dying breed but they are out there. Have him do a survey of your system. You may find you can bring this system back into acceptable condition for less expense than you might think.

If there was an underground oil tank removed by a company that was certified to perform that work, there should have been a certificate issued by the NJDEP. That certificate is the only document you can really hang your hat on to prove that there never was, or there is not now, ground contamination from a leaking tank. If that document cannot be provided then most lenders will not provide financing for the property.

In New Jersey decommissioning an underground tank and leaving in place is not an option. Lenders will not provide financing. It used to be standard practice to empty tanks and fill with sand or gravel but that was not an insurance that there was not a leak and that the ground was not contaminated. If abandoned tanks are found during inspection lenders will require it be removed and certification obtained proving there is no ground contamination.

Michael S. Most lenders will not provide financing on a property with an older underground tank.

Specialty tools and material needed to remove and install an new HVAC system:

Refrigerant recovery machine - $750

Refrigerant recovery tank - $100

Cost to dispose of recovered refrigerant - up to $10,000 fine if not done properly - You will have to find a refrigerant reclaiming facility to work with you if you are not certified

Vacuum pump - $350

25 lb tank R-410A refrigerant ( if you can find someone to sell it to you without proper cert ) $250

Micron gauge - $150

Refrigeration gauges ( cheap set ) - $100

Nitrogen tank and regulator - $350

These things alone put you over $2000 additional and that's assuming you already have the other necessities such as a torch, brazing supplies and piping tools.

Keep in mind that if you don't know how to properly install a refrigeration piping system the result will be shortened equipment life. I have seen equipment that has been installed improperly fail within months. The cost to replace a failed compressor can be about 50% of the original equipment price. Clogged refrigeration systems due to improper brazing can result in complete equipment replacement. Bottom line - this isn't rocket science, anyone who is mechanically inclined can do it. The problem comes with lack of experience and that shortcoming could end up costing you thousands. 

@Chan K. 

When it comes to sizing replacement steam boilers, the Net Steam Sq Ft is the important number. This relates directly to the size and quantity of the radiators. Each radiator has a specific free internal area to hold the steam. There are charts that show various types and styles of radiators that give the calculated area per radiator section. This number is multiplied by the number of sections to give the area per radiator then multiplied by the number of radiators for the total sq footage of steam required. The replacement boiler must be sized so that it's net steam square footage output is at least as large as the calculated number. If the boiler's output is too low it will run out of water before the radiation system is completely filled with steam. This will cause the autofeeder to kick on and add additional water. When the steam in the system condenses back to water and makes its way back to the boiler it will flood the boiler.

Unfortunately, I don't know what your radiators look like so I can't really help you on the sizing at this point. If your contractor didn't take a walk through the house and inspect each of the radiators then he probably did not size the replacement boiler that way. Very often contractors will size the replacement boiler based on the size of the old one. This will usually not cause any operational problems but sometimes results in the new boiler being larger than it needs to be. Back in the day when these old boilers were installed, energy efficiency was not a prime concern so the thinking was that bigger is better.  

From your description it sounds as though the skimming procedure has solved your problem. With a 1500 sq ft house, which I assume is older with less than ideal insulation, a boiler with a net 61,000 BTU steam output is probably just about right. If the water level in the glass remains fairly stable during operation and does not continually drop low enough to activate the autofeeder when firing then I think its safe to say you will be ok.

You mentioned that your contractor was supposed to return to skim the system but never did. That is probably where your problem lies. When steam boilers are replaced, contaminants very often are washed down into the new boiler after it begins to operate. This could include oil that was used when cutting and threading the new piping as well as dirt and rust from inside the old piping. These contaminants form a film over the surface of the water in the boiler. When the water is heated it is supposed to turn to steam and travel up through the piping. When there is a film on the surface of the water, steam is prevented from forming and pressure begins to build below the water surface. This pressure actually starts to push the water in the boiler down and out the return piping instead of allowing steam up through the supplies. This can usually be witnessed in the sight glass by watching the water level bouncing drastically from the bottom to the top of the glass. Every time the water is pushed low enough to reach the bottom of the glass, the auto feeder will think the boiler is low on water and begin filling. This will be an ongoing cycle until the boiler and sometimes the entire piping system overfills causing a minor flood. The fix for this condition is to "skim" the boiler. This is done by installing an open pipe with a valve in the side of the boiler at the top of the water level. When the boiler is started and pressure begins building, the valve is opened, "skimming" the contaminants off the surface of the water. There is another method, which I normally use instead of the skimming method. I add a chemical designed for cleaning steam boilers to the water before starting the system. This chemical absorbs the contaminants and sinks to the bottom of the boiler. After it has had time to work, the drain is opened and the water, chemical and contaminants are flushed out. Get your contractor to return and either skim the system or treat the water. All of the problems you are experiencing will most likely be solved by this process.

1) Central A/C systems can definitely freeze up when the thermostat is set too low but it's not because the setting is too low. It happens because the outdoor temperature drops, causing the refrigerant pressures to change. Because the thermostat is set so low the system continues to run under conditions it was not designed for and causes ice to start forming inside the indoor section. 2) You mentioned the service tech " refilled" the system. That indicates the system was low on refrigerant. Low refrigerant and dirty air filters are the primary causes of system freeze ups. Both of these situations are typically found during yearly, routine maintenance. 3) You mentioned a motor that was failing. An indoor blower motor that is not moving enough air is creating the same condition as a dirty air filter - low airflow. Low airflow causes system freeze up. Bottom line , shutting the system off and waiting may have temporarily treated a symptom but would not have fixed the problem. Repeated symptom treatment usually leads to major, more costly failures. The service call was definitely justified. Routine yearly maintenance will very often find problems before they happen and avoid emergency weekend service calls. The tenant probably had the thermostat set so low because the system was not operating properly. The normal reaction for most people when their heat or A/C is not working is to crank the thermostat to the extreme. If you are concerned that your tenant will continue to leave the settings too low there is something that can be done. Many of today's programmable thermostats have a secondary programming menu that can only be reached by entering a code. Once in that secondary menu, you can set the thermostat to only be adjusted within a specified range. In other words, if the default settings allow the thermostat to be adjusted from 55 to 85 degrees you would be able to change that to a range of say, 69 to 74 degrees.

Contractors do sometimes run up against unexpected problems that could not be foreseen. In those instances extra costs can be justified because you would have had to pay for those things anyway had they been known in advance. In this case it seems as though at least some of the extra costs are self inflicted by the contractor. In my opinion those types of extra expenses are not justified and are the contractors problem. A reputable contractor who wants repeat business will absorb those costs to promote goodwill with his customer and will make up the loss on future projects. Since your contractor does not seem to be of that mindset, and you already do not seem to be happy with his work, it may be time to cut your losses. Before paying extra for workmanship you already are not happy with, at least bring in another contractor to give you a price to complete the job. You may find you can get a better number or at the very least gain some bargaining power to use against the original contractor.