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All Forum Posts by: Tony Kim

Tony Kim has started 12 posts and replied 831 times.

Post: Has anyone ever used the Velocity Banking Strategy?

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015
Originally posted by @Ben Zimmerman:

@Joe Splitrock You are misunderstanding me. In my scenario you are not making extra 10k / month overpayments. This is in stark contrast to what @Brian Cardwell has been saying, in his arguments you do make overpayments and the loan gets paid off ninja fast due to those overpayments and not because of the heloc.

In my scenario, in the FIRST month you do make a 10k payment towards the mortgage (in the amount of your monthly paycheck), but this is because you will eventually pull that same money right back out via your heloc. So it is a 10k payment, and a 10k withdrawl, which means there is a net of no additional payment as you still have a 100k total loan (90 on the mortgage, 10 on the heloc). All months after the first you make the mortgage payment completely as you normally would, and your 10k monthly paycheck goes towards paying off your heloc balance in it's entirety. If done properly you should only have a balance on your heloc for a few days at the end of the month, and will be paid of in full on the first of the next month with your paycheck.  This prevents that 10k paycheck from sitting in your bank account earning no interest until it is time to pay bills, and instead immediately goes to pay down the mortgage, and then only costs you interest when you finally decide to withdraw the money via your heloc for a few days at the end of the month to pay those same bills.

I will attempt to show this in the attached spreadsheet. The first tab is a standard 100k loan at the stated 4.75% interest rate with no overpayments.

The second tab is the same 100k loan using the heloc method. On day 1 of the first month, you make a 10k overpayment, and will then take that money right back out via your heloc to pay your bills. This translates into a 90k balance on your mortgage, and 10k heloc so there is no actual overpayment since all 100k is still accounted for, it is just split into 2 different balances instead of one singular 100k loan. You will pay interest on your heloc balance, which if you can push your bills back far enough into the month to only pay 1 week worth of interest, that turns a 5.9% heloc into an effective 1.37% loan. This means each month you will pay roughly $11.47 in interest, and an extra $8.33 in heloc fees if your lender charges $100/year to keep the account open. Over the life of the loan this means the heloc will cost you a little over $5700. This means that you will pay roughly an extra $19.81 / month to your heloc using this method. Under this scenario your loan is paid in full after 24.25 years.

Tab 3 contains a regular 100k loan with monthly overpayments in the amount of $19.81 per month to simulate what would happen if you made an overpayment in the amount that your heloc costs you each month. Under this scenario your loan pays off in 27.75 years, or 3.5 years SLOWER.

Tab 4 is my feeble attempt to show the flow of money into and out of the heloc. The basic premise is that your paycheck gets direct deposited into your heloc account, and you use your heloc to pay all of your monthly bills.  You want to push all of your bills back as far into the month as possible before paying them in order to pay as little interest as possible. Each month when you get paid, you want your paycheck to pay off the entire heloc balance such that nothing stays on your heloc for more than a handful of days.. If done properly this allows you to keep a very low balance on your heloc for the majority of the month, and a very high balance for only a few days at the end of the month. In my scenario I said that ALL bills were due on the 23rd of each month. Obviously real life scenarios will be more messy since some bills will have different due dates, but this gives you the basic idea of how the system should work.

Summary: Everyone who advocates doing very large chunking on a heloc that takes many months to pay off is incorrect, because if a balance remains on a heloc for the full 30 days, then simple math says that a 5.9% loan is worse than a 4.75 loan. However, if done properly and in small enough amounts such that you do not carry forward a balance from month to month on the heloc, and instead only keep a balance on the heloc for a handful of days then it can be very beneficial as it takes a portion of that 4.75 loan, and turns it into an effective 1.37% loan.  The method is obviously dependent on how far back into the month you can push the majority of your bills, as this lowers the actual amount of interest that you will pay on your heloc balance.  Also, the higher your household monthly earning, the better this technique works.  As a family that earns 10k / month will be able to shift more onto their heloc than a family earning 7k / month.  Also it goes without saying that it depends on the interest rate of your heloc versus your regular mortgage, and how much fees your lender charges.  This method isn't magically going to eliminate decades from your loan, but for some people, under the right set of circumstances, it can be beneficial.  

Heloc Loan spreadsheets

So based on your spreadsheets, it would appear that the bottom line is that we would be trying to capitalize on the fact that a HELOC is calculated on a daily basis, whereas a traditional mortgage is not, correct? Couldn't we draw from the HELOC just one day before payday thereby accruing just one day's worth of interest?

Post: Paying cash for first rental property?

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015
Originally posted by @Patti Robertson:

@Michael Garofalo - That has not been my experience.  I have financed plenty of rentals that were vacant.

Same here...but I should mention that this is for non-commercial financing.  In my experience with buildings that are 4 units or less, vacant units allow for more financing as the lending limits will be based on appraised rental rates instead of the deflated rents that typically accompany distressed properties..... particularly here in rent controlled Los Angeles.

Post: What is your biggest problem you face right now as a REI?

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015

Finding a suitable place to deploy my 1031 exchange funds. Had a few potential multiplexes that I thought might be OK, but had to walk away from them.

Post: Wife/husband differing views on investing

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015

@Daniel Byrd I love these types of threads where one spouse has not bought into real estate investing and is handicapping the other from implementing his investment plan.

Mrs. Byrd...If you're reading this....Stand your ground! Insist on getting the house you want. My wife did the same thing and I'm very glad she did. 

My wife always tells me, what's the point of being financially independent if you are living in a house that you aren't happy with? I didn't agree with her at first....but now that we are living in the house of our dreams, I've bought into what she is saying and couldn't be happier. The house costed a lot of money and also costs a lot to maintain and upgrade....but I wouldn't have it any other way. 

Post: So Cal ADU vs. Investing out of state

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015
Originally posted by @Edward Liu:

I am not sure where you got the idea that convert a SFH to 2 units will drastically increase value. Buyers for SFH and multiple units on very different. Most SFH buyers will skip duplexes or other types of multiplexes as they are looking for a home to live in, not for investment. In some markets, it will increase value of the home, but in higher cost areas of CA, it will reduce foot traffic whenever you put on the market due to its classification. In many cities, SFH cost a lot more than multi-units. For example, I just put in an offer for 3 plex in this college town about 0.3 miles from the university on the east coast for $185k. Medium price for SFH in the area is $235k. This is quite common in many cities that multiplex is cheaper vs. SFH.

I agree with your reasoning but there's a big difference between multiplexes and a house that has a nice ADU attached. I'm not saying an ADU will drastically increase the market value, because the data on that so far has been inconclusive. I'm just pointing out that you're making an observation on traditional multiplexes whereas the original poster is talking about simply adding an ADU to the house.

Post: What are the pros and cons to Section 8? Pa

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015

Post: So Cal ADU vs. Investing out of state

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015

@Nikki O. I'm in a similar situation as you in the sense that my wife is really interested in building an ADU by converting our garage. Since we are within a half mile of public transportation, we are not constrained by the city requirement to have covered parking for your car.

Here are my thoughts when it comes to an ADU.

I hate ADU's that totally feel like garage conversions (although admittedly, they ARE garage conversions). In order to build it one so that it doesn't feel like you're living in a garage that's just been prettied up, you will spend a considerable amount of money..... probably more than whatever quote some of these local garage conversion specialists have told you. My wife's co-worker is in the process of building a 2br/1ba ADU ...they demo'd the existing garage and are building it from scratch from the foundation up and are almost done. So far, it looks beautiful....the type of property that I would love to live in if I were 10 years younger and single. However, it is costing them about $75K more and 6 months longer than initially estimated. But in the long run, it will be worth it because any hint of this structure being a garage has been completely eliminated, new utility meters have been done, and the property itself has its own address. Basically, his home was converted to a duplex that is perfect for house hacking. And I'm convinced that this structure will indeed substantially increase this property's market value.

You also must have a contractor that you know will do a good job. I have a person that I use all the time and 90% of his work consists of me and a few other of my closest friends. If I didn't have someone like him who I've used many times in the past with great results not only for me but also for everything he's done for my buddies, I'd be less confident about building an ADU.

With that said, there is no place in So Cal where you can spend 200K on a building and rent it for $2.5K. Although you will go through a lot of stress during the build process, the return on your capital will be hard to match.

Another option is to build the ADU and rent it as an Air BNB. We live in Wilshire Park, which is a very good place to run an Air BNB...and from what I can gather, you also live in a perfect place to run one as well. This will provide even better revenue, plus you get the flexibility to keep it vacant when you have out of town family visiting.

We looked at other places in CA that have higher cap rates, like Bakersfield and Fresno, but ultimately decided not to invest for reasons that are too long to list here. 

Post: So Cal ADU vs. Investing out of state

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015
Originally posted by @Edward Liu:

If you have the cash (I am from CA also), invest out of state (without moving). with 25% down, you can buy rental properties (try buy more than 1 to spread the risk) worth at least $500k. Even at 5 CAP, your return is better than $1700 per months gross (not net profit).

 500,000 at 5 cap will be 2,083 per month. Are you ignoring cost to carry debt?

Post: Purchasing rental property with existing Sec 8 Tenant

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015
Originally posted by @Sharon Li:

@John Underwood When you say "just tell them you bought the house," is there a particular form to fill out and provide to them? Was the switch fairly quick, or was there a month or two lag before you started receiving payments? 

Some section 8 agencies will hold off paying the first month to catch up on all the necessities and make a larger payment second month. But it is probably different for different agencies.

Regarding the paperwork to fill out, I'm also interested in what others have to say as I'm in the process of purchasing a property with multiple existing Section 8 tenants. My only experience so far has been with properties under professional management.  This new one will be local and self-managed.

Post: The importance of physical fitness

Tony KimPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
  • Posts 843
  • Votes 1,015

Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US for both men and women. What good is building up a huge pocket if you can’t enjoy what you’ve built! I don’t know if it helps my job performance, especially for me as I’m just an accountant who sits on his a$$ all day long. But working out on a regular basis sure does help my self-confidence, energy levels, my waistline, and most importantly, my health.

My pops had a stent put into his artery, so there is some family history for me. That’s why I try to base most of my diet around whole plant foods (I also fully agree that you can’t out run a bad diet). I also do cardio 3-5 times a week, walk my dogs every day for at least 30 mins, and also lift weights around 3-4 times a week to get a head start against sarcopenia and bone density loss as I age.

Here on BP, we always talk about how important it is to be honest with yourselves when evaluating a deal. I think the same is true for your health. You have to be honest with yourself when evaluating your health. Also, to avoid putting your health on the backburner like so many people do, it’s important to find a way to remind yourself EVERY MORNING of what your most important values are in your life. I’m pretty sure that every single one of you will list your health as one of your top five important things in life. As an example, some of my values are:

1. Make each day your masterpiece (Thank you John Wooden).

2. Act at all times as in the presence of God (Thank you George Washington).

3. Maintain a healthy, strong body.

4. Work daily towards financial independence.

5. Maintain a life of presence, simplicity, and sharp focus.

I have about 7 more which I read every morning before I start planning my day. But reading this list every morning is a reminder of what’s important to me and not forgetting to plan my day around my life’s most important values, which includes fitness and health.