All Forum Posts by: Wilson Churchill
Wilson Churchill has started 8 posts and replied 461 times.
Post: Renters with Pets

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
I always charge at least $50 per month more for pets. I have seen some charge $25 per month additional rent per pet. I would just assume that if you have carpet that it will be ruined and charge accordingly.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Manch Hon:
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:
$100 to $200 per month isn't insignificant, depending on how many units are owned. Some people get more than that. If one house can generate $5000 per year in cash flow, then only 100 houses are needed to earn half of 1M per year.. Cash flow will lead to a high net worth, provided it is reinvested into purchasing additional units and not spent otherwise.
I totally get the theory. But want to know if anyone has successfully used this strategy to accumulate significant wealth. There are all those gotchas in real life that one only knows thru practice.
Some people in this thread raised some interesting questions. For example, if one buys in low-priced places that cash flow immediately, how is the tenant quality? Are thefts and petty crimes an issue? Will cap-ex like replacing roofs eat away a lot of your cash flow etc etc.
If you have successfully used this strategy, speak up. We all want to learn from your experience.
I'm not a millionaire, but hope to accumulate that number of units eventually.
Tenant quality in low income areas is lower, obviously. But there are tenants that have decent jobs. Section 8 is best for low income areas, but I won't hesitate to rent to tenants with enough income. I look for at least three times the rent in monthly income. The only other thing I look at is evictions. And I talk to the tenants to see if I like them or not, or if they say anything that raises red flags.
Thefts can be an issue, depending on what area the house is in. I don't buy houses that are in a bad area, defined as missing copper or furnace, etc. Knocking on doors and talking to people is the best way to get to know a neighborhood. I also talk to my existing tenants about areas to get their opinion. Repairs are inescapable. A new roof can eat a few months rent or more, depending on who does the work. But a roof shouldn't be changed often.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Manch Hon:
Originally posted by @Terry Hershberger:
@Manch Hon , Can you explain this question you asked? So anyone has built >1M net worth in <=4 unit buildings thru drip dropping of rental income?
So OP's question is whether one can build meaningful wealth via cashflow. I took the liberty of defining "wealth" to be over 1 million. Multifamily appreciation is much tighter linked to its cashflow so I restrict the question to 1-4 unit properties.
All the examples people gave so far are of the "I bought this great deal at under market value and rehab it" type. This to me is just another form of appreciation. They are not collecting the $100 or $200 per door to become millionaires.
$100 to $200 per month isn't insignificant, depending on how many units are owned. Some people get more than that. If one house can generate $5000 per year in cash flow, then only 100 houses are needed to earn half of 1M per year.. Cash flow will lead to a high net worth, provided it is reinvested into purchasing additional units and not spent otherwise.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mi/madison-heights/dequindre-rd/#overview
Median price $127,000 Please show a $20,000 property.
That was last year, as I said. The cheapest one I see listed now is $34,900. And it's the only one that cheap. Again, it was the cheapest one in the city. Why should I pay full price for a house if I don't have to? A buddy of mine bought his first house for $20,000 in Madison Heights this year, but it was a private sale from a landlord, and it needs work. He is a licensed contractor and master plumber, so he will do everything.
$20,000 is actually cheap for Pontiac as well. I don't like to pay full price for anything I buy.
Please show a $20,000 property that will sell for 2.4 times the gross rents.
Here is the last one I bought:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/163-Legrande-Ave...
I believe that it could sell for 2.4 times the gross rents. It is currently rented for 694 per month, as determined by the housing commission. It was a short sale. The previous owner lived in the home. It needed only minor work, including siding repair, painting, concrete porch repair, hard wired smoke detectors, drywall near the chimney that was leaking, roofing tar, and one floor needed to be lightly sanded and stained. I also added a brick perimeter around the flower bed in front. My total investment is around $16,000.
The sales subject still needs a couple of rent comps. And a business reason why it would ONLY sell for 2.4 times. If its because the rents are uncollectable or declining then I'm not interested.
The listing agent believes it would sell for $30.000 on land contract. To be fair, this is an unusual deal. I would only sell it if I could immediately buy two additional homes with the proceeds.
Post: Is it better to invest in real estate or the stock market?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
RE because discounted purchase and leverage.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mi/madison-heights/dequindre-rd/#overview
Median price $127,000 Please show a $20,000 property.
That was last year, as I said. The cheapest one I see listed now is $34,900. And it's the only one that cheap. Again, it was the cheapest one in the city. Why should I pay full price for a house if I don't have to? A buddy of mine bought his first house for $20,000 in Madison Heights this year, but it was a private sale from a landlord, and it needs work. He is a licensed contractor and master plumber, so he will do everything.
$20,000 is actually cheap for Pontiac as well. I don't like to pay full price for anything I buy.
Please show a $20,000 property that will sell for 2.4 times the gross rents.
Here is the last one I bought:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/163-Legrande-Ave...
I believe that it could sell for 2.4 times the gross rents. It is currently rented for 694 per month, as determined by the housing commission. It was a short sale. The previous owner lived in the home. It needed only minor work, including siding repair, painting, concrete porch repair, hard wired smoke detectors, drywall near the chimney that was leaking, roofing tar, and one floor needed to be lightly sanded and stained. I also added a brick perimeter around the flower bed in front. My total investment is around $16,000.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mi/madison-heights/dequindre-rd/#overview
Median price $127,000 Please show a $20,000 property.
That was last year, as I said. The cheapest one I see listed now is $34,900. And it's the only one that cheap. Again, it was the cheapest one in the city. Why should I pay full price for a house if I don't have to? A buddy of mine bought his first house for $20,000 in Madison Heights this year, but it was a private sale from a landlord, and it needs work. He is a licensed contractor and master plumber, so he will do everything.
$20,000 is actually cheap for Pontiac as well. I don't like to pay full price for anything I buy.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:
I am not familiar with "NBHD".
NeighBorHooD...I'll settle for a Craigslist neighborhood.
A few years ago there were several here in Madison Heights. I purchased one last year, but it was the cheapest house in the city and I practically had to bribe the listing agent to get it. But my total investment in that one is closer to $30,000. My $20,000 (and less) deals have been in Pontiac. Most investors I talk to shy away from Pontiac for obvious reasons. I used to live there, so I am familiar with the various neighborhoods and hoods. There seem to be some cheap homes in Roseville, Warren, and other suburbs of Detroit.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Wilson Churchill:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Manch Hon:
@Jay Hinrichs I was briefly tempted by those $35k Memphis houses. :) Thank God I did not pull the trigger. If I have to repair a roof, I'd much rather repair roof over a 500K house than over a 50K house. The cost won't differ by 10X would it?
But if you had $500,000 worth of $50,000 houses you'd have TEN roofs to replace! YUCK, who moved my cash flow?
It's not so bad. I wouldn't mind having $500,000 worth of $20,000 homes. Sure, you have 25 roofs, but also 25 units paying an average of $700 per month (depending on the city). With a payback period of only a few years, who cares if the roofs need to be changed? A properly installed roof can last for a couple decades or more.
Please show me a NBHD of $20,000 homes that can collect $700 a month regularly.
I am not familiar with "NBHD". My strategy is to purchase the cheapest homes on the market. I might look at 10+ homes and then cherry pick the ones that need work and are selling at a discount, but are also in decent areas and don't require work that is too expensive. Short sales seem to be the best deals. I have also had luck making low-ball offers on homes.
Post: Cashflow Doesn't Build Wealth?

- Madison Heights, MI
- Posts 471
- Votes 132
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
I am all for locals that live in a market loading up on rentals and cheap rentals as they are in a position to make them work and over see them.. The issue comes from those that are out of area and thinking they are going to create some great wealth strategy buying 2 to 5 cheapie rentals... the pain to get to the wealth component usually outweighs the benefits.
there was a thread a month or so back were a person ask anyone who had own Mid west cash flow rentals for 10 years or more and lived out of state to chime in about their experiences there was either no one or maybe one or two.. the reality is for those living 4 states or 5 states away this is just a really tough road to hoe... There is a thread today on BP of a person who owns a home in MI he owes 44k on it tenant trashed it needs 7k to be rentable yet again.. and he is at last out of money because of this one property, and to make matters worse he financed it with a national lender so his credit is at risk the best offer he can get of course is from a wholesaler for 17k this scenario happens hundreds of times a week in the mid west it JUST DOES but we never hear about it we only hear about the blue sky and those that sell the dream...
Fair enough. I can understand not wanting to manage property out of state. I really have no intention of trying this, outside of larger apartment buildings. But there are plenty of investments in my area to keep me busy.
$7,000 for a turnover? I would like to get the details on that. When I do repairs, I try to do some of the work myself and hire others for $10 per hour to help me. The more I can learn about construction, the less I have to rely on expensive contractors. Since I know how to install a tile floor, for example, I can show people how to do it and pay them much less than if I were paying someone that specializes in tile floors.
Recently, I had a tenant that moved out after getting 6 dogs and 3 cats without my permission. Needless to say, the flooring was ruined. I washed the walls and floors with bleach, after removing the carpet. I installed tile and paid people to help. The entire cost was less than $1000. I collected $4,900 from that tenant over a six month period, so I am not to disappointed. The security deposit covered most of the cost, and I had the unit rented the next month, producing no vacancy.