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All Forum Posts by: Zahra Fathollahi

Zahra Fathollahi has started 2 posts and replied 10 times.

Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jake Andronico:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Dan Portka:
Quote from @Zahra Fathollahi:

Hi, I am new and want to learn. I am in Los Angeles. The prices are way out of reach. Searching for ideas. Where should I start?

Appreciate your input. 


 I agree with Nathan here.. socal historically hasn't been great for cash flow and in the current high interest rate & low inventory environment its even harder. Investors have pivoted to other approaches such as direct to seller marketing to find their own deals, creative financing, house hacking, or just accepting lower cash flow


 >socal historically hasn't been great for cash flow

I do not know where you get this opinion but for long term holds it is not just mistaken but possibly Southern Ca has historically had the best cash flow of any region in the country. 

Case Shiller ranks large cities residential rentals by total return since 2000.  Top 3 cities are San Fran, Los Angeles, San Diego.  The total return includes property appreciation but rent growth has strong correlation with property appreciation.  So it is not surprising that markets with the most appreciation typically have the highest rent growth.  

My market is San Diego. According to Rentometer, 3/2 SFH in San Diego had average rent increase of $700/month. I believe in dollar term (not in percentage terms) that it was the highest in the nation (and top 5 in percentage).

There is a poor relationship between initial cash flow and actual cash flow over a long hold.  This is not happenstance.  The good initial cash flow market typically has poor appreciation outlook and therefore poor rent growth outlook.  The poor initial cash flow market typically has good appreciation and rent growth outlook.

The market with the higher rent growth will always eventually be the better cash flow market (it is mathematically the case) which is why coastal southern CA markets have historically produced great cash flow for long holds.  

By the way I agree with the rest of your post. The market is more challenging than it has been for many years. Investors are using more labor intensive strategies like rent by room, STR, MTR, etc to make the numbers work. These alternate strategies can work, but realize they are not passive (I do not consider LTR to be passive, but these other strategies are less passive).

Good luck

@Dan H.

I appreciate the input. Definitely agree that STR's, MTR's and renting by the room are less passive than LTR's.

The rent increase is certainly significant in SD, LA, and SF like you mentioned, but the appreciation outpaces rent by a long shot. 

That's why those areas are looking so favorable on the total return since 2000 (appreciation included). 

I agree with you that appreciation is important and you don't need cash flow initially to do well in RE long term. 

However, when you have minimal cash reserves, are just getting started, and now are in a higher interest rate environment, cash flow does matter in my opinion. 

My family owns property in Santa Barbara and does an MTR that's been working extremely well for the last few years. Love that area, and have nothing against California. 

Good luck to you as well!  


In general the rents lag the market in both directions. The market has gone up significantly over the last decade and rents were on pause in early pandemic due to low consequences of non-payment. this leads to reduced rent to cost ratios at purchase. however, this also leads to crazy rent increases such as the $700/month average rent increase on San Diego 3/2 SFH in the last year.

I have not purchased in over 1.5 years, but virtually all my San Diego RE have over 2% rent to purchase ratio (2% ratio produces outstanding cash flow). They started with poor to OK ratios but the rent increases have made the ratios great. I only have one 3/2 SFH rental and their rent increase was $800/month in the past year (slightly more than the average (~$100/month more than the average)). You can see how poor cash flow can quickly turned to good cash flow with the type of rent increases that my market has supported.

My RE market YOY increase is 3% so this is a year were rents will narrow some of the gap between rents and property values of the past decade (my average unit rent increase will be ~10% so 7% higher than YOY RE appreciation). There have been few years in the past decade where rents increased more than values in my market.  I suspect maybe the last 2 years are the only years in the past decade where the gap between rent and values has narrowed. The rents in my market are reflecting the lag between price and rent; the rents are still playing catch up.  

Good luck

Excellent point you mention! That you don't have to have a cash flow property to start with, especially in California. But getting into the market has become very challenging. Was there anything in particular that helped you get into the market? I know good timing/acting quickly and a low-interest rate (which unfortunately I missed) helped a ton of people that created their own luck.
Quote from @Michael Smythe:

@Zahra Fathollahi it would be great if you could invest locally to learn the rental business and THEN go out of state for better cashflow deals. Even if it means doing a joint venture that negatively cashflows, but you sell in 2-5 years for the appreciation.

If you can't do that, then like many in California, you will be forced to look out of state for cashflow. The challenge is finding people to do business with you can actually TRUST that align their interests/income with your interests/ROI.

Read this copy & paste info below to learn one approach to analyzing an OOS market, so you can apply it to wherever you decide to invest:)

You might want to follow the "Deep Dive" series we're doing on our BiggerPockets blog about Metro Detroit cities, City of Detroit Neighborhoods and comparing Metro Detroit to other hotspots investors usually consider:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/99854-deep-dive-into-metro-detroit-cities-ecorse

Our analysis is a template you can follow for any city, but doubt you'll find this much info for any other market in the US.

So, why would you invest remotely anywhere else?

How can we assist you further?


 Thank you, Michael. For a first-time home buyer, one person, I am not comfortable buying out of state in the first round. Unless as you mentioned you have someone that you trust and have interests/styles in common. Appreciate your feedback.

Quote from @Jake Andronico:

@Zahra Fathollahi

Thank you! 

Here are a few things to keep in mind: 

1. You will be living w/ or next to your tenants. This just is what it is. I considered at one point purchasing a trailer to live in on the side of the home, but eventually decided against it. I realized having roommates made the most sense for me, and renting by the room would provide the most safety and rental income. 

2. There will almost certainly be instances of things you do not like (parking, trash, noise, pets, etc.) Yes, you can hire property management, but I personally would not suggest that when house hacking initially. You will learn a lot of how to manage people and your emotions.

3. Cash reserves are huge. It's always a fantastic peace of mind to have at least 3-6 months to be able to make the full mortgage payment. If you do not have this, that's OK, but there is more risk. 

4. Try finding locals who have done it in your area. Understanding their process will be instrumental to you learning. If you can find multiple people (3-5 is ideal), that will give you context on different people's experience, and you will likely start to see patterns. 

5. Consider moving out of state or in a completely different area in your state. This one may be controversial, but the reality is in some areas house hacking is not realistic with a small amount of money (especially with current interest rates). Moving may not make sense for you, and that's totally OK. I was willing to move to an area where I really did not know many people, because I knew long term it would be a good call. 

6. Stick to the lease. Having a strong lease agreement is a huge benefit. You can make some exceptions where you see fit, but if people try to really push boundaries I suggest being firm on  

House hacking for me was not "fun". I pushed myself, learned a ton and 100% do not regret it at all.

It can completely change your life, but you need to make sure it's right for you. 


 Thank you so much for sharing the truth and reality of the house hacking insights. Greatly appreciated!

Quote from @Jake Andronico:

@Zahra Fathollahi

SoCal is traditionally not a cash flow market. But, the appreciation there can/has been phenomenal. 

You'll hear about cash flow a lot here - but it's not always the best strategy for everyone. 

House Hacking is a great strategy starting out, and what I did to now have 2 rentals that I've now moved out of. 

I'd recommend checking out that section on BP! Good luck!

Congratulations on making the house hacking work for you! So happy for you crossing that barrier. What helped you say Yes, and you did whatever to make it work? What should I watch for to increase the chance of house hacking work? Greatly appreciated.

Thank you all for your input. 

I am currently renting. 

@Jake Andronico It seems that house hacking might be a reasonable choice for me. I'll check the BP house hacking section. 

What are the top 3-5 things I need to check for house hacking so that it won't create problems later on? 

Greatly appreciate your input.

Hi, I am new and want to learn. I am in Los Angeles. The prices are way out of reach. Searching for ideas. Where should I start?

Appreciate your input. 

Quote from @Rick Albert:

I have found multiple tenants through Facebook Marketplace. However, a couple of things to note when posting on FB:

1. You will get bombarded with leads. It will be a part time job filtering the leads.

2. Many of the leads are low quality. They will reach out, you respond, and then you never hear from them again.

3. DO NOT SCHEDULE PRIVATE SHOWINGS. Do open houses and have them come in that window, no exceptions. I cannot tell you how many no shows I have gotten. Once I had 17 scheduled showings during my open house. Only 2 showed up.


 Hi Rick, thank you for sharing your experience with the FB Marketplace. Concerned about the quality of the responses. 

Thank you all for your responses. Greatly appreciated.

Zillow has not helped so far. 

Looking for quality tenants. 

So far the rental property is listed with only one real estate agent. 

Have not put it on FB mainly for the reasons you mentioned.

Will continue searching. Thank you.

Hi real estate investors. I am new and just starting to read, listen and Learn. I love the BP community and the information they are proving. 

A friend bought a single family house and wants to rent it. I appreciate if you have suggestions on how to find renters beside Zillow, Redfin, and lease sign in front of the property. Thank you.