Quit Claim deed property to LLC / Asset protection / Due on Sales...

Quit Claim deed property to LLC / Asset protection / Due on Sales...

Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 47 posts · 4 votes

Hi Guys,

I've been reading many posts on LLC's, quit claim deeds and such and I have been getting very confused with a lot of the things out there. I know there are hundreds of posts on this topic and I have read many of them. I still am still confused about the best option for me at this point. I have a situation that I need some help with...

My partner (brother in law) and I were planning to purchase out of state properties as buy and hold rentals (all residential with less than 4 units). We set up a LLC in the state in which we intend to purchase. We talked to many banks about loans but the issue was no bank would lend to us in the name of the LLC.

We then decided to each buy a property under our personal names using our personal credit. We used conventional financing with 25% down as non owner occupied investment properties. We now intend on quit claim deeding the title over to the LLC. I know there are strong reservations against that due to the "due on sales" clause being violated. Is there any other option or way around this? I have heard a lot about land trusts but again these are from gurus trying to sell things. I've read the numerous posts and blogs about this but still can't come to a conclusion if it would be viable option or not. I've called many attorneys and most just tell me to keep the property in my name, get insurance and be done. No one has suggested a land trust since they say that because I have a mortgage my name will still be public record.

The other issue is that I am a high net worth physician and asset protection is also very important to me since I will be a target for law suits if the properties remain under my personal name. We already have a commercial insurance policy in place with 2/4MM liability but still would like to have the protection of the LLC, as well as build credit in the LLC to be able to buy future properties in the LLC name.

I've been struggling with this for a while and still don't understand the best way to move forward. I know the best thing would have been to obtain a loan via the LLC and title directly to the LLC name but even if I would be able to find someone to loan to a new LLC (with my personal guarantee) it would likely only be a variable rate loan with much higher interest rates.

At this point am I stuck having this property under my name or should I just take a chance and quit claim to our LLC and hope the bank doesn't call the loan. If they do I can always title it back??

Or, just keep it in my name, buy more insurance, set up a general partnership with my brother in law and pray no one looks up who owns the property and notices I'm a physician.

BTW, we are purchasing duplexes in nice areas that are professionally managed. These are not $500 section 8 type units.

Any input on the matter would be greatly appreciated! 

I just can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone. I've reached out to attorneys as well as CPA's and get mixed suggestions.

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Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 10 votes
6y

@Sarat Khandavalli

Yes sir you are right about the insurance part. The insurance had to cover the LLC. The typical practice is to add LLC's name as "additional insured" since to my knowledge most insurance companies are also hesitant about covering LLC directly.

I still need to my due diligence on all this. So forgive me if anything I’ve said is wrong.

Best,

FO

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  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I know the bank did not want to loan to the LLC but have you asked them if they would allow you to place it in the LLC? Maybe they have a solution.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 47 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    @Bob B.

    I did speak with the original lender, he said I could quit claim to LLC but then loan was sold and new servicing company states I can not. Go figure. I think any of these fanny freddy loans prohibit transfer of the title.

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    If you have a "GOOD property manager" and adequate insurance I would not worry about it.

    There is theory and reality.  In theory, you could be sued.  In reality you do the right thing, know what your doing and you sleep at night and go about your business.  Just like being a doctor.  

    Good Luck

  • New to Real Estate · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    I know this post was from a while ago, but I am in almost the exact same position. Did you figure out a way to get this done? 

    I'm a physician who is debating between buying the property directly into my LLC and then refinancing vs taking out a loan in my personal name and transferring the title to the LLC. If the latter approach is used, I would obtain an portfolio loan from the bank (ie no DOS clause) that allows transfer of title (via warranty deed) and insurance to the LLC. However, in this scenario I'm still named personally on the loan which, according to my attorney, exposed me since loan payments will be made to my personal loan from the LLC (corporate veil pierced). Any thoughts/suggestions?

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    @Sarat Khandavalli

    Another physician here. I'm a similar situation as you. I brought a property in my name last year and I plan to transfer it to an LLC this summer.

    What do you mean when you say even though you transfer property to LLC, your name is still in the loan? Does the LLC not assume responsibility for the loan? I am yet to talk to an attorney but it is on my to-do list sometime this spring/summer.

    Buying in the name of the LLC directly is very difficult except it is a commercial loan or except the LLC already had its own credit history.

    Please clarify.

    Good luck

  • New to Real Estate · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Fidelis O. 

    Here is my understanding of the matter after speaking with my attorney and the lender (but please confirm with your own attorney): 

    The transfer of title to the LLC via quitclaim or warranty deed doesn't change the borrower. The original "deal" was between you (personally) and the lender, and that still stands. Even though the payments may originate from the LLC, if the bank needs to chase anyone down for payment, they will look to you (the borrower) not the LLC. The fact that you would go to the LLC for the money is where your exposure lies. This is what a plaintiff's attorney would claim in wanting to pierce the corporate veil - at least this is my concern and question to the forum.

    My attorney is advising me to purchase the property in a manner that the LLC is named as the first party on any loan, not me. The part that confuses me is that even in this scenario, ultimately the payments flow up (through the LLCs) to me, so aren't I exposed there anyway? (so confusing!)

    Thanks for responding and best of luck to you too!

    Sarat

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    @Sarat Khandavalli

    I would check with my attorney again but my understanding of how LLC works is different. Liability is based on what entity OWNs the property not who the bank goes after if mortgage is not paid.

    If it was as complicated as your attorney is making it sound then no one will be transferring properties from personal name to LLC because it will be useless to do that since the corporate veil is lost.

    Actually what I plan to do is create 2 LLC. One for day to day operations and the other to actually own the property. That way even if the operating LLC is sued, the owning LLC can't be reached.

    Good luck and keep in touch

  • New to Real Estate · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    6y


    @Fidelis O.

    Indeed, according to my attorney, most people are fooling themselves into thinking their transfer of title to the LLC actually offers any significant protection. It is certainly better than owning it directly, but for people with high net worth, this level of risk may not be worth it. It would be nice to have examples of when this system worked (or didn't) after facing a lawsuit. Another point that is apprently missed by many is that the insurance should name the LLC as the insured party (after transfer of title), however most keep it in their personal name, which is basically completely useless. The catch is if one were to transfer the insurance, it would most certainly trigger the lender to call the note (DOS clause). I am not clear as to why, but it seems that is the case.

    I have a similar structure set up - an LLC holding company that owns the individual property LLCs.

    best, 

    Sarat

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    @Sarat Khandavalli

    Yes sir you are right about the insurance part. The insurance had to cover the LLC. The typical practice is to add LLC's name as "additional insured" since to my knowledge most insurance companies are also hesitant about covering LLC directly.

    I still need to my due diligence on all this. So forgive me if anything I’ve said is wrong.

    Best,

    FO

  • Investor · NY · Member since 2020 · 57 posts · 44 votes
    6y

    I was advised by my attorney to purchase my rental properties in my name and then after few months of paying the mortgage (so that the my mortgage lender can see that my LLC has been paying the mortgage and it is always paid on time, no issues, with the LLC's business account to ask my lender if I could transfer the deed to my LLC. I did and they told me that it did not matter to them, as long as THE MEMBERS/OWNERS OF THE LLC WERE THE SAME AS THE ORIGINAL LENDERS ON THE MORTGAGE. They are, so therefore, my lender allowed me to do it. My rental properties are now in my LLC and I made sure to call my insurance company and made my company "an additional insured." Also, if my tenant elects to have rental insurance, they must have my LLC as an additional insurer too.

    I hope that this helps.

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