You will have to do ugly things to get ahead in real estate

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Man, I'll tell ya, racism is a crazy topic.  There's so much that I want to say about it, but it's impossible to know where to begin.  In the end, racism is literally illogical.  Conditional "If, then" statements only require one counterexample to be proven false.  So,

"If someone is white, then they are smarter/prettier/harder working/better behaved/etc. than black people."

Insert your counterexample here _____________ , which proves the conditional statement false.

My heart goes out to any kid (of any race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.) that's being told that they can't do something though.  Racism exists and that's unfortunate.  I just wish that the message is that it's getting better and you can overcome it so it could be used as fuel for the fire instead of an impediment. 

I think race is being used to divide us politically and we're all taking the bait.  Speaking as a "white" guy though. By "white", I mean that you'd probably consider me white, but my grandparents were considered a minority when they got to America...

Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff :
Originally posted by @Mark Cruse:

@Bruce Woodruff of course we know racism doesnt exist. Black folks just have nothing better to do but make things up all day instead of working. Making america great...............

C'mon man, you're smarter than that.....of course it exists.... it always has and always will. My point is that there are people that just sit around and wait for somebody to say whatever word is triggering them this week. Rather than argue over silly **** like this thread, why don't we all work to fix the problem...?

 My working to fix the problem was explaining why the comment was racist and defining how ideologies of that nature contributes to  a hostile and devastating climate for people of color. I clearly explained how it seriously impacts others and expressed why some should not see it as ¨no big deal¨ or something that others are making up. Apparently that worked. I have had multiple likes to my commentary and several have shared how they appreciate the context through my inbox. The author of the thread even reached out to me. If one person in here who had these thoughts before recognizes that its wrong, that could lead to a change in some of their subconscious thought processes and behavior. In essence, I already did what you were suggesting. You are the one who made reference to if it even exists and myself and plenty here have made that abundantly clear. What you dismiss as silly **** that I assume you feel no one should be wasting time on is very real and pressing to the one´s experiencing it. 

@Mark Cruse has a very obvious point here, and yes, I did reach out to him. I would like to have a discussion specifically about some of the aspects of systemic racism I've had to deal with at some point somewhere else, with moderators who might volunteer for the extensive work it will probably need when things get out of control and people fight instead of communicate.

@Bruce Woodruff I have to disagree with you. I emphatically don't think the problem is fixing itself. I think it's getting worse in quite a few areas. I also think it's hurting this country.

Originally posted by @Jim K. :

@Bruce Woodruff I have to disagree with you. I emphatically don't think the problem is fixing itself. I think it's getting worse in quite a few areas.

So 'racism' is worse now than it was in which decade? 1940s? 1950s? 1960s? 1970s? 1980s? 1990s? 2000s?

Stop chasing windmills, Jim.......are you having a mid-life crisis or what? :-)

Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff :
Originally posted by @Jim K.:

@Bruce Woodruff I have to disagree with you. I emphatically don't think the problem is fixing itself. I think it's getting worse in quite a few areas.

So 'racism' is worse now than it was in which decade? 1940s? 1950s? 1960s? 1970s? 1980s? 1990s? 2000s?

Stop chasing windmills, Jim.......are you having a mid-life crisis or what? :-)

Elsewhere, I promise, Bruce. I've seen too much to unsee and still call myself a man.

Maybe the answer is to avoid "C" neighborhoods. I'm mostly in "A" and "B" neighborhoods. For one of my rentals, my typical tenants have a combined income of 200K-400K, a networth in the 2-5 million dollar range and 800+ credit scores. It's been a wonderful experience. 

Originally posted by @Adam Christopher:

Maybe the answer is to avoid "C" neighborhoods. I'm mostly in "A" and "B" neighborhoods. For one of my rentals, my typical tenants have a combined income of 200K-400K, a networth in the 2-5 million dollar range and 800+ credit scores. It's been a wonderful experience. 

 I’m assuming you have quite a number of properties?

Fair question. Purchase price was 603K in June 2018. Down payment was 121K and another 50K in rehab. However, all the money came from rental #1 that I purchased in May 2007 (cash flow and cash-out re-fi). I didn't have to use any of my W-2 money which is pretty small. 

Edit: Add another 5K for closing costs. 

@Jim K.

Jim, you probably just see the ugly truth to the “profit motive” system we live in. Really in every industry it exists.

Hospitals- charging different amounts (insurance, private pay, Medicare, ect.)

Coke/alcohol/cigarettes - selling a product that is addictive and pretty useless

Car lots- running someone’s credit 10 times to get them to qualify. Totally screwing up their credit.

It’s like this in every industry. Being a landlord gives you power. You can chose how to use that. I go pretty heavy on the “grace” and try to help people.

I have been through some messed up s**^ in this industry. Stuff I have seen and been a part of. Part of it is taking too much responsibility for the way others chose to live. Part of it is the harsh reality of life.

I took about 6 months off recently. Reevaluated life, and moved forward. I would suggest the same if you aren’t feeling real estate/landlording.

Originally posted by @David Nutakor :

@Mark Cruse, thanks for pointing out the racial comment in this discussion. I’m surprised that BP administrators did not delete this post, meaning they’ve not seen anything wrong with it.

Well, as the person making the comment, I would wonder why you wouldn't ask me about it. Hell, we're six pages into the thread, so why not?

Is it racist to look at a group of kids playing on the sidewalk and idly wish for an instant that they were white so that your property would be worth more? Or is part of the nature of real estate to twist someone like me (namely, a non-black landlord) into that kind of thought? Is there something corrupt and racist in real estate itself that creates the urge (and/or motivation) to think this way?

Unless, of course, you believe that the complexion of kids playing on the sidewalk outside a property has no bearing on the monetary value of that property. Do you believe that? Because that can be proven CATEGORICALLY FALSE very quickly. The ugly FACT that homes in majority-owned black neighborhoods versus majority-owned white neighborhoods continue to be undervalued in the USA is unfortunately objectively true and not a matter of sincere debate. The devaluation of assets in Black neighborhood


Or should we be afraid to look at that fact? What problem does avoiding the ugly truth solve? Is wishful thinking and demanding all heads must be stuck in the sand the right way to move toward racial equality in America and the more meaningful democracy it would bring about in this country?
I am ashamed I had that thought of black kids versus white kids. I have repeatedly said so in this thread. But I am dead certain that the thought came from the nature of the industry, not from some sick white supremacist dream lurking in my diseased DNA.

There's often a winner and loser with investment purchases that are below market value.  Time is of the essence if people really, really need money. 

 Contracts are contracts. Arguments will happen. 

But treating people with respect is always a win.

Originally posted by @Adam Christopher Zaleski :

I have 3 rentals (4 doors) and a primary. I value quality over quantity. I invest in real estate to make my life better, not create headaches. 

100%

It's a good balance.   20 doors would be incredible, and the income would be nice. 

But that's heavy work, even with a property manager.  

Pueblo , CO is a cool place btw.  Stopped for a night on the way to Colorado Springs.  

I completely disagree. Successful real estate investing is about helping people. The better you are at that the more successful you will be overall. If you think you will get into this business and do shady deals, have sleazy business practices, and steal people's houses at 40 cents on the dollar by using some Jedi mind trick on them that you learned at a get rich quick seminar you are probably in the wrong business.

I had one of these investors in my area several years ago. He appeared to be the biggest, baddest investor in town until he ended up in prison for 10 years for some of the crap he was pulling.

There is no reason to be anything but above board, honest, and helpful in this or any other business. There is plenty of money to be made being this way.

Originally posted by @Hesketh Smith :

@Eric Bilderback How do you utilize Pro

 How are you thinking to use it?  For me I just like sounding off about real estate stuff and it has lead to both me finding partners that had money!, and also real estate clients.  I love bigger pockets even more I love real estate investing because (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) it is the absolutely the best way for normal people who have to work hard to create wealth.  Don't know anything about your situation but I believe if you educate yourself (basically don't lose money on a stupid deal) and stick this thing out for 5 years you will have opportunities you never dreamed of in your future.  

Reach out anytime, 

@Jim K.

I’ve read a ton of these responses but there’s just to many dor me to keep going. From someone who grew up dirt poor being made fun of for not having cable as a kid and going to a high school rated a 1 with a disclaimer, if 0 was an option this school would be that, to hanging on the streets and ending up in prison for 5 years, no I disagree that you have to do bad things in real estate. It’s the exact opposite. steaming from your mother to chase a high is a bad thing, robbing someone for the thrill

Is a bad thing. Offering someone housing for a return of money is not bad at all in my eyes. I’m

Not going to speak about the poster and I’m going to focus on the question and responses the best I can.

Some people are perfectly satisfied with there lives in a class D neighborhood, I know I was when I was there. I was even okay with being in prison and at one point accepted that this was my life. But I changed and wanted more for myself. So I worked to get more. With all the cards stacked against me I climbed out with very few in my corner. Life isn’t easy, your suppose to have problems everyone does. But dwelling on the negative is no good.

I just relocated from New Jersey to Arizona for many reasons. Politics and real estate we’re two of them. I didn’t like the way my state was so I decided to go somewhere else. If someone doesn’t like the investments in there area invest out of state or just move! But action is the key here. Nothing will change inside or around anyone until the few take action. New York is a prime example. Run down in the 80’s then trump snd Hemsley stArt building up. Then a few others start developing. Then they run out of space so they move into Harlem and Chelsea. Now they’ve moved into Brooklyn. But this all

Happened because a few people took the first action.

Don’t blame the black kids or people who don’t want to work or the government or slum lords or bad tenants or shorty contractors and anyone else but yourself for you problems. You can over improve s property. That’s why some markets call for imported finished from Italy snd Europe while others csll for stock cabinets snd a $10 faucet. I bought a property with a $30k rehab. Now around $60k in with another $20 left snd I’m completely happy. I decided to redo everything now so I don’t have to touch it again. And this property is in a class D neighborhood with new everything. We all need to be comfortable with what we do period. Everyone has difference tolerance levels. A rich preppy kid from bel air would never invest in an inner city. But someone who grew up snd knows about it will. There is someone for each thing in this world and we all just gotta get in where we fit in. Snd if you don’t like where you are, then change how you act snd move up

To the next level.

I make good money and between my wife and I we don’t struggle and we’re pretty good. But I just offered 8 hours of work of free Internship to a developer in my area. I want to get to the next level so in order to get there I have to take myself from the “king of the loser” and go back to being a toilet scrubber.

Make a plan know where you want to be in 3,5,10,50 years and just act on it. Once you get where you want your done and you can keep going or stop. But if you don’t know where your going you’re always going to be lost looking around the corner for answers!!

This post, in which the OP is just looking for attention, has nothing to do with RE and should be taken down at this point. This isn’t a therapy forum or a race forum. If you dont like RE investing  then don’t do it and leave the site. This site is to help people improve their future. There are good landlords and bad, good cops and bad, good doctors and bad, good people and bad. That’s the way life has been and will always be.