Permit vs no permit on interior construction
I showed a home and asked the listing agent why the home went contingent and then got relisted.
The agent said the inspection went bad because there was no permits on any work done.
The home had fully remodeled kitchen, bathrooms, flooring, etc.
The listing agent said the contractor has done everything to code and has years of experience.
Do you need permits on everything done inside the home and will inspection fail with no permits.
Can anyone provide any feedback on this topic.
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Originally posted by @Jill F.:
Here in NE Ohio, it would not matter. It would be very uncommon to pull permits for interior work in a private home where occupancy has already been granted.
Chicago is NUTS on permitting and very heavy handed if you get caught you absolutely need permits for the work described in the city of Chicago.. That said 90% of my clients doing inside work never get permits and its not an issue unless its a new Panel or major plumbing repair.
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Hi Ralph:
We are developers and licensed general contractors with the city of Chicago. To emphasize what @Jay Hinrichs said--and yes I'm exaggerating but trying to drive a point home--you basically need a permit to breathe in this city. :) Do contractors (and homeowners) do construction work on their home without them? All the time. Do we? NEVER.
If you're a contractor--or homeowner--considering selling in the near future (or strictly renovating with the intent to sell NOW)--you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to not get SOME type of permit. Depending on the amount and type of work, an 'easy permit' may suffice. (ie: A so-called 'over the counter' permit, which is easier to obtain, cheaper, and still covers a fair amount of renovations that don't include anything structural or heavy MEP work.) So, if this contractor you're referring to just replaced kitchen cabinets, painted, and sanded and refinished floors, eg, an easy permit would totally have covered all of that work. This all begs the question: if the contractor is so experienced, why WOULDN'T he have gotten a permit in the first place?
Be that as it may, are you asking about whether a home inspection will pass? Or inspection(s) by the city? In our experience, a home inspector has never asked for city permits. Only the buyer's attorney asks for a full report, as well as proof of the permit showing all inspector signatures, after we are under contract.
I'd be remiss if I didn't add the following: We work on the North and NW side of the city. Our price point is mid-level (700-900k ARV). Though it 'shouldn't', it might actually make a difference. I've heard of quite a few contractors working on properties on the South side, and maybe other less expensive areas of Chicago, without permits. And those renovated homes get sold with no problem... Where was this property located?
I wish this was black and white. Nothing in Chicago is. Unfortunately. Not sure if this was helpful. Hopefully some others will chime in soon with more insight...
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Originally posted by @Jennie Berger:Hi Ralph:
We are developers and licensed general contractors with the city of Chicago. To emphasize what @Jay Hinrichs said--and yes I'm exaggerating but trying to drive a point home--you basically need a permit to breathe in this city. :) Do contractors (and homeowners) do construction work on their home without them? All the time. Do we? NEVER.
If you're a contractor--or homeowner--considering selling in the near future (or strictly renovating with the intent to sell NOW)--you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to not get SOME type of permit. Depending on the amount and type of work, an 'easy permit' may suffice. (ie: A so-called 'over the counter' permit, which is easier to obtain, cheaper, and still covers a fair amount of renovations that don't include anything structural or heavy MEP work.) So, if this contractor you're referring to just replaced kitchen cabinets, painted, and sanded and refinished floors, eg, an easy permit would totally have covered all of that work. This all begs the question: if the contractor is so experienced, why WOULDN'T he have gotten a permit in the first place?
Be that as it may, are you asking about whether a home inspection will pass? Or inspection(s) by the city? In our experience, a home inspector has never asked for city permits. Only the buyer's attorney asks for a full report, as well as proof of the permit showing all inspector signatures, after we are under contract.
I'd be remiss if I didn't add the following: We work on the North and NW side of the city. Our price point is mid-level (700-900k ARV). Though it 'shouldn't', it might actually make a difference. I've heard of quite a few contractors working on properties on the South side, and maybe other less expensive areas of Chicago, without permits. And those renovated homes get sold with no problem... Where was this property located?
I wish this was black and white. Nothing in Chicago is. Unfortunately. Not sure if this was helpful. Hopefully some others will chime in soon with more insight...
Inspectors hammer you on the South side as well I know first hand :(
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@Ralph Ace I would proceed with caution for sure. Doing remodel work without permits (or with the easy permits instead of the full permits) is common, but why would any rehabber do this? Every competent RE attorney in the city always has something in the attorney review letter about all work being done with permits. This means then that the seller either has to lie in attorney review, or you have to knowingly buy something that was done without permits. That doesn't always mean you will have an issue as a home buyer, but you could...
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Quote from @Ralph Ace:
I showed a home and asked the listing agent why the home went contingent and then got relisted.
The agent said the inspection went bad because there was no permits on any work done.
The home had fully remodeled kitchen, bathrooms, flooring, etc.
The listing agent said the contractor has done everything to code and has years of experience.
Do you need permits on everything done inside the home and will inspection fail with no permits.
Can anyone provide any feedback on this topic.
The answer to the question is it depends. For interior work that does not require tearing down walls, updating plumbing, HVAC or electrical there is something called an Easy Permit in Chicago. The Chicago Building Code site goes into more details on how to get away with only an easy permit. Regarding a home inspection going bad on a contract because no permits were pulled, that's unusual. I've had banks or lenders check on permits but never a home inspector. In 20+ years I've never had a home inspector check on permits.
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Normally permits are only needed when you're adding MEP type work or framing for new walls. General finish type renovations you shouldn't need a permit for.
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@Ralph Ace - You got some solid advice from @Jay Hinrichs and @Jennie Berger who are definitely reputable sources so I won't add much.
Here are two links I think you might find helpful:
1. What is activities require an easy permit
2. When is a Chicago Building Permit NOT Required?
We also have some flow charts and diagrams we can send you that help explain what is or isn't required permitting wise.
I'd recommend getting it under contract and having an inspector or another contractor walk the property. It's probably fine.
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Depending on the scope of work, it may or may not be a big concern.
You can tell the realtor that code requires pulling permits, so no the contractor did not do the work to code.
I have seen highly experienced professionals do simple work and get something minor flagged during inspection. Inspections verify things are done safely and to code, which protects you and your investment.
There is not a single contractor on the planet that will tell you "I do half *** work that doesn't meet code" and there isn't a single contractor on the planet that hasn't had issues flagged during inspection. That is one reason people don't get things inspected, because inspectors can flag things that they find minor. They don't like it, so they don't get things inspected.