Investor · Hercules, CA · Member since 2015 · 208 posts · 47 votes
In Midwest cities such as Indianapolis, Detroit, Milwaukee where there can be some really cold winters, is there a concern about the old plumbing system in the home? I've heard of old pipes bursting and causing costly repairs as a result. How do you mitigate against these risks if there are no leaks in the meantime? Do you re-plumb the entire house? Is there additional supplemental insurance you can purchase as part of the homeowner's insurance policy?
I've heard of some rehabbers replacing the entire plumbing system with PEX plumbing. What is the average cost to re-plumb an entire house in those areas?
Thanks for the replies. Do you communicate to the tenants to constantly heat the home to at least 40 degrees throughout the winter months to avoid the risk of bursting pipes? Or do they already understand this risk and do it anyway?
First, hi @Leo B. (and all!)... :)
Yes, one of the biggest risks during the winter for investment properties (especially vacant, although occupied can have issues too) would be water damage from burst pipes.
Although I would love to agree that all tenants would certainly keep the heat above 40 degrees because that is dang cold! ... some of them don't if they can't afford the heating bill. Then you have an even bigger issue of other heating sources being used like the stove or space heaters or burning phone books in a trashcan (Yes, we have seen it!)....which can end up burning the house down!
Also, some people end up turning the heat way low when they go on vacation in the winter and end up having pipes freeze then.... It's never unwise to keep educating... we all need reminders even about "common sense" items... the same is true of changing batteries in smoke detectors, etc. These are your assets and no one is going to take better care of them than you. The key is teaching tenants in such a way that they understand the impact that these loss prevention items can have on them... The impact on you may be financial, but the impact on them can result in relocation or even injury to themselves or the ones they care about...
Back to frozen pipes...
The general rule of thumb is to leave the heat set to no lower than 55 degrees, but in some cases that may even be too low depending upon the location of a property's pipes. Advising tenants to keep faucets on a slow drip overnight if temps get very cold is a good idea, and opening up cabinet doors to let the heat circulate to pipes can help as well.
One thing to think about with winterizing is that it really is a pretty simple process, but will help you avoid water damage to vacant properties...even if you intend to keep the heat on, a winter storm with high winds or heavy snowfall can knock out the power and then you end up with NO heat at all. Having no water in your pipes at that point would be of great benefit to avoid a mess.
As for coverages, the Special Form format typically includes coverage for Water Damage, BUT you will usually need to be able to show that you have endeavored to keep the heat on (via utility bills, etc.) or have fully drained the system. Basic Form formats DO NOT include coverage for Water Damage so review your coverages if you don't know what kind of coverage you have or give your agent a call.
Lockport , NY · Member since 2014 · 265 posts · 124 votes
11y
I'd rather keep the heat on during the winter months rather than winterize, which involves completely draining every ounces of water from all systems in the house.
Replumbing an entire house can run into the thousands!
Thanks for the reply. What does the "winterize" process involve?
A house with a basement is fairly easy to do.
Turn off and Drain the water from supply lines usually by cutting the pipes in a couple of strategic places in the basement. If pipes are run level that usually will do it. If it is Pex you may need to blow them out with an air compressor.
Flush the toilets to empty the tanks and then pour antifreeze into toilet, tub and sink drains so the traps don't freeze.
Zionsville, IN · Member since 2015 · 52 posts · 13 votes
11y
Note: The antifreeze I use is the same type that is used for RVs. It's pretty cheap and readily available at big box home retailers. If its a long term hold. It's nice to hook up some air compressor nozzles. You can blow the lines out that way.
Thanks for the replies. Do you communicate to the tenants to constantly heat the home to at least 40 degrees throughout the winter months to avoid the risk of bursting pipes? Or do they already understand this risk and do it anyway?
I've had an entire house re-plumbed not due to frozen pipes but it cost about $4,000. This was also a very large house.
Winterizing means all the water is removed from the house and water is turned off at the street. Then the house can be left un-heated.
Thanks Dawn. Did the $4K include finishing the space, ie. drywall, paint, etc?
This was just for all the plumbing labor and materials for a 4-bedroom 2,000 square foot house -- main stack, etc. through to getting the toilets, and all the sinks put in.
Contractor · Blackfoot, ID · Member since 2013 · 149 posts · 52 votes
11y
It is correct that it can be against code in some places to eliminate the outside hosebib. Also keep in mind winterizing a house, while a good idea if your not going to heat it, does not guarantee that nothing will freeze. You cant see through the walls , so there is no way for you to see all the dips and turns your pipes make. Water can still collect, or pool in a pipe, even after air is used.
Best bet? keep the place warm, and remember that 40-50 degrees does not provide much of a "heat pillow" should the heat go out, and you dont find it for a day or two.
Last thing. Try windshield washer fluid instead of RV anti-freeze. it usually costs a fraction of the price and goes just as cold as RV antifreeze.
Thanks for the replies. Do you communicate to the tenants to constantly heat the home to at least 40 degrees throughout the winter months to avoid the risk of bursting pipes? Or do they already understand this risk and do it anyway?
First, hi @Leo B. (and all!)... :)
Yes, one of the biggest risks during the winter for investment properties (especially vacant, although occupied can have issues too) would be water damage from burst pipes.
Although I would love to agree that all tenants would certainly keep the heat above 40 degrees because that is dang cold! ... some of them don't if they can't afford the heating bill. Then you have an even bigger issue of other heating sources being used like the stove or space heaters or burning phone books in a trashcan (Yes, we have seen it!)....which can end up burning the house down!
Also, some people end up turning the heat way low when they go on vacation in the winter and end up having pipes freeze then.... It's never unwise to keep educating... we all need reminders even about "common sense" items... the same is true of changing batteries in smoke detectors, etc. These are your assets and no one is going to take better care of them than you. The key is teaching tenants in such a way that they understand the impact that these loss prevention items can have on them... The impact on you may be financial, but the impact on them can result in relocation or even injury to themselves or the ones they care about...
Back to frozen pipes...
The general rule of thumb is to leave the heat set to no lower than 55 degrees, but in some cases that may even be too low depending upon the location of a property's pipes. Advising tenants to keep faucets on a slow drip overnight if temps get very cold is a good idea, and opening up cabinet doors to let the heat circulate to pipes can help as well.
One thing to think about with winterizing is that it really is a pretty simple process, but will help you avoid water damage to vacant properties...even if you intend to keep the heat on, a winter storm with high winds or heavy snowfall can knock out the power and then you end up with NO heat at all. Having no water in your pipes at that point would be of great benefit to avoid a mess.
As for coverages, the Special Form format typically includes coverage for Water Damage, BUT you will usually need to be able to show that you have endeavored to keep the heat on (via utility bills, etc.) or have fully drained the system. Basic Form formats DO NOT include coverage for Water Damage so review your coverages if you don't know what kind of coverage you have or give your agent a call.
Hi BreAnn. Thanks so much for the info and the comprehensive reply! This helps a ton! I'm thinking maybe I can build the heating requirements into the lease agreement (just like for replacing batteries in the smoke detectors). Ultimately, I understand the liability falls on the owner of the property; hence, my question around insurance. The endeavor to add the heating requirement to the lease might serve as documentation to the insurance company in the event of a claim. I'll double check with them.
Insurance Agent · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 90 posts · 53 votes
11y
I'm glad Leo! Building in heating requirements into the lease agreement sounds like a really good idea to me. Definitely may give you a leg to stand on if the tenant decides to turn the heat off.
You may also want to see if your local utility co. has an alert service for owners. One of my colleagues has a rental and their electric co. notifies them if/when service is disconnected. That gives them the opportunity to pay the bill if needed.