Looking for insight and coaching

2 Replies

I am looking for some insight into my current situation. I live in Utah which like many parts of the country is on a huge appreciation terror as of late. I am looking to get my first rental property under my belt and begin to fulfill my goal of 30-50 properties in the next 25 years. I am currently  41 and make a decent living about 175K a year but with 4 kiddos and life's expenses it just feels like things are always tight. I have my primary residence on a 15 year loan with about 9 years left. I owe around 219000 and it would appraise right now for around 600K. I owe 40K on a Heloc after just finishing my basement. only about 6000 in short term savings right now and around 500K in a 401K for retirement. I have no other debts on cars, or anything else. I have been at my job for over 10 years and I love what I do but I want more for my self and my family. I have a job that I work out of my home multiple days a week and I have great flexibility.

The reason I divulge all this information is so you get a true picture of my situation so hopefully you can help. I want more and I have always wanted to be a real estate investor on the side. I grew up doing framing and concrete in high school and enjoy many hand on aspects of building. I also owned a painting business on the side for years and painted Maverick gas stations a large chain in the local area. I did a lot of the basement work myself and have many of the tools. I wouldn't say I am naturally talented at handyman work but I like to work hard and learn. In 2011 I actually flipped a few houses with my Bother in law who is a very successful realtor in North Utah County. We used hard money and made a small pile of cash.

My goal is to build a portfolio of 30 houses or more over the next 25 years. I want to cash flow 200 per house and be a landlord and have my tenants pay down my rents. I would also love to flip houses when I can on the side and I would like to be involved with some of the work myself like installing flooring, paint, trim work, landscaping.

So not having tons of short term funds right now but wanting to eventually improve my situation. I went to America First and added to my Heloc and bumped it up to 200K. So I have 160K to still use. I started looking around the state and everything was getting pricey and my brother in law tells me he think we have another year maybe year and a half then the market will correct some not like 2008 but dial back a bit and that's when I want to be ready. I don't want to wait so I begin looking in the state trying to stay closer to home for my first rental. And Vernal Utah is jumping of the page at me. Vernal has been in a depression since around 2014 with the oil fields laying of many. Its boom or bust in Vernal like in the Dakotas. When its a boom you cant find houses or rentals. So right now there is tons of short sales in the area. But I also work with doctors in Vernal for my job and many have families working in the oil fields and it is getting better. its slow but improving. So I find a cute town home that around my house in Lehi would sell for around $230,000 right now and it listed for only $79,000. its newer built in 2007 and looks great so I drive by it one day when I am working in vernal with a medical sales rep. And this cute little old couple are renting in they look nice and I chat with the man for a little bit. they are currently renting on a lease that ends in May 2018 for 850 a month. the home is a 3Brm 2 and a half bath with two car garage. its 1523 square feet. its clean turnkey as they say from the pictures. I have not gone inside to see first hand just the outside which looks great. Below is the picture of it. When I am looking at the property there is a sign for sale by owner on another town home a few doors down so I call on it and the man tells me it sold so I ask for how much and he says $129000. There are also two other on MLS at the time list for $129000. Both have since sold. So I feel pretty good about offering. There is an HOA of $125 a month which is high but it covers all the yards, and pays for Sewer, water, and garbage as well. I have my brother in law call the realtor listing the property to do some detective work. She tells him they have multiple offers and are getting ready to pick on so we talk and feel like if we are going to get this property we need to offer $92,000 and be willing to pay cash. Which means I am using my Heloc to pay it since I don't have the cash which is why I want to build a rental portfolio in the first place. The realtor calls back and says that she has accepted my offer and I submit a 1000 in earnest money to hold it. Now the panic sets in a little can I really afford this? My Heloc charges 1.25% of the balance in a payment every month so currently I am supposed to pay 500 a month but I pay 1000 on paying it down. so if I now add another 92,000 onto the 40,000 I owe that's a big payment of 1650 a month so after rent that's 800 from my pocket which I can do but I wont want to for long. I think the property is a good deal but who knows if the bank will sign off on it especially with neighboring homes selling for so much more. If they do I plan to buy it even though I live 2 hours away and manage it myself.

My question is how long after I close can I do a cash out refinance at 25% LTV. Even if it appraises at $119000 I would then be able to put that 87000 back onto my Heloc for another deal and then my payment with Principle and Interest, insurance and taxes and HOA with Vacancy and a little for expenses would be around 700 a month. So only cash flowing $150 but rent is also low and when the market improves more a realistic rent would be around 950-1100 adding to my cash flow. Plus the appreciation. You cant build this thing for the 60 a square foot it will cost hopefully.

My Credit  is good around 800 and I had already been preapproved for a investment  property by Box  Home Loans. I am ready to be methodical and do as many deals as I can withu

I think your paragraph got chopped off at the end. I appreciate you writing all the details. I'm sure you have a lot of questions running through your mind right now. There are two ways you can do the cash-out refinance. One that you can do right after the closing, sometimes called delayed-cash-out refinancing, and another one you have to wait for 6 months. Generally speaking, the term is better (assuming the interest rate is the same for the next 6 months), when you wait 6 months. If you need a lender who can do the delayed-cash-out refinancing, please PM me.   

I don't know the area and what the tax is for this house, but usually the number start to work against you when the rent is less than 1% of the purchase price, especially if you have an HOA. It's as if you bought a SF house with no HOA for $92k, but the rent is $725. That's a tough one, but then again, you think you can raise the rent, so that's good.

A few points of concern. 

  • You only have $6k in cash. I think that's super low. You make good money, so you should look at where you are spending your money and should start saving. If you are 41, you can afford to not to contribute to 401k for a year (some even thinks 401k is a total waste of money, especially if you are going to invest in real estate).
  • Another thing is, have you seen inside of the house? I will make sure.  
  • I understand you are semi-handy, but I would hire people to do the work. You have a lot going on in your life, and it'll be hard to scale, if you try to do many things on your own.
  • When you calculate the return, I would not combine your personal debt with the investing debt. Just make sure that the house you are buying makes sense as a stand-alone product, and the payment for the $40k you borrowed to do the basement is separate.

There's a one easy solution that will solve all your problem, and you will not do it, but here it is. Just sell your house, pay off the $40k for the basement, rent a house for your family, put some money to the side for the rainy day, and start investing the rest of the money out-of state. Study different markets, and fly to different parts of the country. Meet people who sell houses. Chances are they will be turn-key houses. Return will not be spectacular, but it sounds like the return is limited in your area anyway. 

I wish you the best with your success, and congratulations on taking the first step. 

@Rhett Dean I don't think you need to sell your house...you can just keep using your HELOC. You might even be able to increase the line more. Mountain America has a 90% HELOC last I checked a couple of months ago. They used to have a 100%! I wouldn't sell if I was you. The market in UT is fantastic and your $600k house could be worth a whole heck of a lot more than that in another 10-20.

I think one of the best things to do is either flip for more capital or do the BRRRR strategy. This way you can just reuse the HELOC over and over and over instead of buying and getting a measly $200 cash flow and then waiting a really long time to pay down the HELOC.

I sent you a PM with a little more info. 

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