People are fleeing California, are you?

311 Replies

Don't get me wrong, there is far more good in my hometown of Redding than bad. Here is the true northern CA, 2.5 hrs. drive north of Sacramento.  These are from Shasta County (Redding) and surrounding areas. It's such a beautiful area. Lake Shasta is the largest man made lake in the U.S. with 365 miles of shoreline. The whole entire area is phenomenal, and THAT is why people stay, to fight to get their cities back. Shasta County has an aggressive group of citizens pushing for more funding for jail space, help for the mentally ill, and connecting the network for detox and rehab for addicts. They're doing what they need to do to turn the tide. Hopefully enough people will get tired of seeing the decay elsewhere; and participate in turning the state around. 

The 3 Shastas (Shasta Dam, Lake Shasta, Mt. Shasta)

Burney Falls

Lake Shasta Caverns

Whiskeytown Lake

Sundial Bridge

Originally posted by @Karen Margrave :

Don't get me wrong, there is far more good in my hometown of Redding than bad. Here is the true northern CA, 2.5 hrs. drive north of Sacramento.  These are from Shasta County (Redding) and surrounding areas. It's such a beautiful area. Lake Shasta is the largest man made lake in the U.S. with 365 miles of shoreline. The whole entire area is phenomenal, and THAT is why people stay, to fight to get their cities back. Shasta County has an aggressive group of citizens pushing for more funding for jail space, help for the mentally ill, and connecting the network for detox and rehab for addicts. They're doing what they need to do to turn the tide. Hopefully enough people will get tired of seeing the decay elsewhere; and participate in turning the state around. 

The 3 Shastas (Shasta Dam, Lake Shasta, Mt. Shasta)

Burney Falls

Lake Shasta Caverns

Whiskeytown Lake

Sundial Bridge

 Those photos are absolutely stunning! Need to make another visit :)

Originally posted by @Andrey Y. :
Originally posted by @Karen Margrave:

@Andrey Y. Sadly, yes it is true. However; the citizens are getting fed up and starting to put pressure on local city councils and boards of supervisors. I don't understand why the voters continue voting in the politicians that are putting the policies in place that cause all of that mess, but, for some reason they do.  I personally know of parks where they took playground equipment out to discourage kids from coming to the park as it was over run with drugs addicts shooting up heroin in the park. Where fences are being put around parks and families have to "reserve" the park. It's terrible. 

 This is unacceptable. If I was a physician (I am) or an entrepreneur living and working in Silicon Valley, and paying a 50%+ tax rate, I don't think I'd like to see homeless, syringes, human waste, and smell crack smoke on my way to work, the park, or the cafe. Someone had confirmed that this is going on as little as 2 blocks from Google headquarters. Huh!?

Google "homeless bussing" to learn that cities all over the country give their homeless people one-way bus tickets out of town

@Account Closed in Shasta County the Good News Rescue Mission is teaming up with others to reunite many of the homeless with their families. Many of them have mental health issues and lost touch with family and had no way home, so they're buying them tickets back to their families. Also, it's not just CA it's everywhere. The question is, for real estate investors, does it have an impact on where they invest?

Originally posted by @Karen Margrave :

@Roger Steciak in Shasta County the Good News Rescue Mission is teaming up with others to reunite many of the homeless with their families. Many of them have mental health issues and lost touch with family and had no way home, so they're buying them tickets back to their families. Also, it's not just CA it's everywhere. The question is, for real estate investors, does it have an impact on where they invest?

NIMBY (not in my back yard) says people don't want to live next to an eyesore or other unpleasant situation, so the presence of a homeless camp is considered a negative in terms of driving down property values. One reason I donate to 501(c)(3) charities through my donor-advised fund is to make an investment in my local area. But from reading the posts on this forum, some investors seek out C and D neighborhoods, while others seek out A and B neighborhoods. The rule of investing is there are no bad assets; there are only bad prices.

I think a lot of people are neglecting the fact that California has the largest population of any state by a long shot. You sold some houses to some people who came from California? You see a lot of California license plates? It might be because you are statistically more likely too.

Also, it’s a lot easier to move out of California then it would be to move into CA. It’s kind of hard to sell a $150k house and move somewhere where houses cost 3-5 times more.

Yet, the population is still growing.

Anyway
I live in CA, born and raised. (Hermosa Beach, Whittier in LA county)
Plan on staying. I like the diversity, the weather is ideal (lived in Oahu and disagree that the weather there is better, although it is a very beautiful place too), family, a lot to do, so much good food, meet a lot of interesting people.
Not opposed to leaving though. The world is a big place. A lot to see. A lot to do. And a lot to learn.
But most likely will always have roots in so cal.
Operator/Fire Fighter for an oil refinery.

If you are unhappy here then it probably makes more sense to leave. But I don’t think people are fleeing or it’s “sad to see what’s happening to CA.” Yes, it is expensive. But usually, like most things in life, you get what you pay for.
If you are fleeing, then I wish you well!

If you do leave CA (I’ve a brother who’s staying and a sister who isn’t) I’d ask one favor: never forget what your reasons were for leaving and don’t vote to recreate those same problems when you get where you’re going.

Originally posted by @Sean Ridlon :

If you do leave CA (I’ve a brother who’s staying and a sister who isn’t) I’d ask one favor: never forget what your reasons were for leaving and don’t vote to recreate those same problems when you get where you’re going.

 We are having that problem in Colorado.  Californians coming here doing just that.

• Do you live in California? Yes- San Diego
• Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Yes
• If so, where? Bay Area 18 yrs, Chico 7yrs, SoCal 24 yrs
• Will you be staying or leaving? Staying
• Why? Weather, beaches, mountains, Deserts, city life, Job opportunities, diverse cultures/lifestyles, low property tax, etc.
• What is your full time income producing job? Construction Manager-at a large commercial building firm

I have heard people say if you want to understand where population is shifting, look no further than one way U-Haul prices. Prices are higher when more people are driving one way out, versus driving one way in. According to this article from February, it costs twice as much to drive one way out of San Jose, than the cost to drive in from the same location. The prices are driven by supply and demand.

https://www.sfgate.com/g00/expensive-san-francisco...

California will be fine, but there are people choosing to leave due to cost of living. Cost of living is a key factor when deciding where to live. If you have owned a house in the Bay Area for many years, the appreciation is huge. Some people choose to sell and buy a similar house in another city for a fraction of the cost. Some people can walk away with over a million dollars doing that, so it is enough money to invest and retire. Some people think to themselves, should I sit in traffic for 3 hours every day to work a W2 job or should I relocate and set myself up to be financially independent? Take it to the next level and some people leave the USA to find even lower cost of living. 

  • Do you live in California? Yes originally from the East Coast.
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Yes going on over ten years now.
  • If so, where? Currently So Cal
  • Will you be staying or leaving? Staying for now
  • Why? Staying due to my occupation
  • What is your full time income producing job? Active duty military

Its taken me a while to get through the whole thread before posting my own.

  • Do you live in California? Yes 
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years? Yes
  • If so, where? SoCal
  • Will you be staying or leaving?  No immediate plans to leave, but open to the prospect in the future
  • Why? Roots, job, all the weather/culture/diversity/recreation activities/dynamism/opportunity mentioned by others are all reasons to stay.  Freeway traffic and increasing population density is what makes me want to leave.
  • What is your full time income producing job? Cybersecurity

As a rental operator of 30+ units, I'll add some additional perspective appropriate for a real estate forum.  

- I can make a good return with California rental real estate.  Even with buy in prices being high, good weather helps keep maintenance costs lower, there are plenty of skilled workers to get complex work done, unskilled workers are plentiful, property tax (prop 13) limits are beneficial for the long term

- Due to the demand (SoCal population is definitely increasing), vacancy rates have plummeted and rents are healthy increasing.  During the great recession, rents didn't dip (although they stopped increasing for a couple years)

- I've had tenants move in from other states, including Utah (for education), Arizona (electrician), Texas (spacex engineer), Missouri (pursue a dream of doing makeup/hair in hollywood, which she succeeded in), although most are moving locally in state.  We've had multiple applicants from out of state residents, too many to remember much detail.

- I have not yet had one tenant move out to leave the state.  They are usually moving locally (eg: buying a house, larger space for a family, moving in with a significant other, moving for work, in some cases because I am evicting them), but I don't have any insight with what happens to them later on.

- Crime (in my areas at least) are nothing like the fears I see on the thread.  This doesn't mean there is no crime, but the most serious my tenants have had is a trash bag full of aluminum cans stolen from their back yard, one break in to a vacant unit (nothing stolen), and neighborhood graffiti (one of my cities is pretty good at cleaning this up within 48 hours). 

- My tenants are (usually) not rich highly compensated individuals, as my properties are on the more affordable side.  We require that tenants spend no more than 40% of their income on housing.  We have a wide variety of professions renting our units - teachers, engineers, retail, mechanics, roofers, fashion designers, retirees, food service, self employed, hospitality, banking, logistics, dockworkers, police officers, utility workers, etc.  There is no shortage in filling vacancies when they come up with qualified candidates.

I've had all the opportunities I need in California to be self made - to grow up, get educated, raise a family on a single salary, and build a successful passive RE business with my wife and 3 children.  I am not a blind Californiaphile who cannot see opportunity outside my backyard, and we have been looking for expansion into other areas, particularly as we start thinking about "whats next?" after I eventually leave my W2 job.

I am a Workers Comp insurance auditor, therefore I work with business owners everyday and it seems that many business owners are looking to sell and get out of the state due to a combination of wage increases, insurance requirements and the general CA work force. Many business owners have stated to me that they cant find good people and that they cant pay them enough to keep them. One guy owned 4 franchise restaurants and explained that 10 years ago he was making close to 700k a year from them, now he says he is barely able to pull off 20k for himself and he is working and managing all 4 of his restaurants personally. Therefore I don't know if the problem is these business owners have been taking advantage of employees by paying good people the lowest wage possible, or if the good employees in CA have all begun to get the certifications needed to get better paying gigs or start their own businesses. I see a large sweeping change of corps leaving CA and small business filling the gaps in the near future.

I am moving back to California from Bend, OR. I LOVE Bend, OR. However; with the recent fires in Redding, CA, and it being my hometown with family living there, I am returning to build. The process and costs of building in CA are much higher and more complex than Oregon. The issues with CA are still there. However; there is a need for housing, and that's what we do, build. My grandson, a firefighters, home burned down, and we will be rebuilding that , along with new construction. It's so overwhelming to see the housing needs. Over 1000 homes were destroyed, ad 200 damaged. It's devastating. I have built there for 25+ years, and I know the area. It makes sense. 

There is a HUGE demand for rental housing in Redding and surrounding areas, and it's a great opportunity for buy/hold investors. I am a licensed agent as well as general contractor. We already have 2 lots tied down for new spec houses, in an area not affected by the fire. 

Aside from that, I own a 4600 sq. ft. house on 20 acres that I currently have rented out, and I need to finish the permitting on an ADU, so being there will make it easier to do that.

It's such a tough one. So many negatives for developing and building, but the area is BEAUTIFUL. Lakes, rivers, mountains, recreation galore, and it's HOME. For now, all of that far out weighs the negative. Besides, I'm optimistic that eventually people will wake up and stop electing the people that are destroying the state. 

Originally posted by @Karen Margrave :

I am moving back to California from Bend, OR. I LOVE Bend, OR. However; with the recent fires in Redding, CA, and it being my hometown with family living there, I am returning to build. The process and costs of building in CA are much higher and more complex than Oregon. The issues with CA are still there. However; there is a need for housing, and that's what we do, build. My grandson, a firefighters, home burned down, and we will be rebuilding that , along with new construction. It's so overwhelming to see the housing needs. Over 1000 homes were destroyed, ad 200 damaged. It's devastating. I have built there for 25+ years, and I know the area. It makes sense. 

There is a HUGE demand for rental housing in Redding and surrounding areas, and it's a great opportunity for buy/hold investors. I am a licensed agent as well as general contractor. We already have 2 lots tied down for new spec houses, in an area not affected by the fire. 

Aside from that, I own a 4600 sq. ft. house on 20 acres that I currently have rented out, and I need to finish the permitting on an ADU, so being there will make it easier to do that.

It's such a tough one. So many negatives for developing and building, but the area is BEAUTIFUL. Lakes, rivers, mountains, recreation galore, and it's HOME. For now, all of that far out weighs the negative. Besides, I'm optimistic that eventually people will wake up and stop electing the people that are destroying the state. 

 Karen when you get settled maybe we can talk about some deals..  I looked at Sonoma after the fire but competition in that area was keen.. I think this area along with Lake co has some good opportunities..   

@Jay Hinrichs Sounds like a plan. I've been talking with Planning and Building, trying to figure out what the process is going to be etc. They're bringing in consultants, etc. from out of area to help expedite permitting, etc. The County just hired a new Planning Director, and he's supposed to be more builder friendly, The City already has a head of Planning that came from the building trades, so hopeful. 

Originally posted by @Karen Margrave :

@Jay Hinrichs Sounds like a plan. I've been talking with Planning and Building, trying to figure out what the process is going to be etc. They're bringing in consultants, etc. from out of area to help expedite permitting, etc. The County just hired a new Planning Director, and he's supposed to be more builder friendly, The City already has a head of Planning that came from the building trades, so hopeful. 

my brother lives in Lake Co.. and is up on the CARR fire right now  Heavy equipment operator.. but he did the Lake co aftermath and some in Sonoma.. the demo of the fire burn outs is a hazmat or semi hazmat process..  

Apparently my fleeing didn't last long, and I'm heading back to California. Though there are a lot of problems with the politics and the outrageous fees for building, the way my hometown of Redding has pulled together to help each other through the devastating fires and loss of homes is simply AMAZING! I'm so proud of Redding and all of Shasta County. 

Originally posted by @Karen Margrave :

Apparently my fleeing didn't last long, and I'm heading back to California. Though there are a lot of problems with the politics and the outrageous fees for building, the way my hometown of Redding has pulled together to help each other through the devastating fires and loss of homes is simply AMAZING! I'm so proud of Redding and all of Shasta County. 

tired of hearing you bash CA and the politics. You don't like it? Stay in Oregon.

I thought we weren't allowed to discuss politics on BP...but the moderators are allowed to? 

Originally posted by Account Closed:

Apparently my fleeing didn't last long, and I'm heading back to California. Though there are a lot of problems with the politics and the outrageous fees for building, the way my hometown of Redding has pulled together to help each other through the devastating fires and loss of homes is simply AMAZING! I'm so proud of Redding and all of Shasta County. 

tired of hearing you bash CA and the politics. You don't like it? Stay in Oregon.

I thought we weren't allowed to discuss politics on BP...but the moderators are allowed to? 

 I wouldn't call "a lot of problems with the politics" talking about politics. I suppose some might construe it as a backhand against the idea many people have about California - liberal, etc - but depending on the part of the state it could just as easily be construed as being against conservative ideas, such as the conservative mountain counties breaking away and forming their own state. In any case, I read through the recent part of this thread and I didn't see anything out of line. I only answer this since Karen might feel odd answering a complaint against herself.

Moderators are allowed to have conversations just like anyone else. It would be inappropriate if a moderator were demeaning a specific political point of view - i.e. if I were to come out and denigrate all conservatives or Republicans - but there's nothing inappropriate about discussing (or even complaining) about perceptions of local/state/federal government policies or actions. 

Account Closed The original post was in response to the poll regarding the number of people fleeing CA. My post is in regard to the "policies" that are driving the costs of housing through the roof, creating an environment where we have massive wildfires every year; and lives are lost. Also policies that make starting a small business overly complicated. Those things affect real estate, and all Californians. I didn't mention any political party, politicians, etc., that was all 100% what you read into it. 

Everyday people are on BP talking about the pros and cons of various markets. My doing so with California and/or Shasta County is no different. I love CA and Shasta County. I'm discouraged by what has happened to them over the years. That's not politics. I was born in San Jose, CA. Lived in Redding, CA for decades and then Orange County, CA. I am a Californian. I have decades of experience in CA on which to base my opinions, and compare to.

Also, please note, I started the thread, and you clicked in to read it. Note:  Moderators are simply volunteers that help moderate the forums to keep them free of spam, etc., and we're still able to participate in the forums and voice our opinions on topics that affect real estate, etc. 

Thanks for your input, Have a great day! 

Born and Rasised here - I never thought I would be saying this, but...I'll be leaving California soon (and that includes kids and grand kids so more that just "one")  for the following reasons. 

Traffic is out of control - it took me 17 minutes to travel 1.5 miles on the 405 the other day. That is typical afternoon drive home. This is no way to live. 

Taxes - highest in the country - Services? Water, Power prices keep rising - typical electric bill for me is $$350 to $450 month - State income tax 13% - REALLY! Sales Tax 7.75% - Property Tax 1.5% - Car registration? I just paid over $400 to register my car. 

Highest Gas prices in country? Over $1 of it is taxes. 

Price of property - my kids will not be able to purchase a normal home for under $500,000 and that would be a piece of junk out of town with a 1.5 hour commute one way - With jobs paying $20 per hour, they cant qualify for home loans 

an $80,000 year job is working class poor - Rents for a basic 2 bedroom apt in a ghetto like Anaheim or Garden Grove are $2200 or more - Now add health insurance, taxes, car payments, child care, basic necessities and you're broke. 

Homeless EVERYWHERE - car smash and grabs, drugs, every bus bench taken over by a homeless encampment, trash, feces, urine. - its just gross. Period. 

California is not the same state I grew up in. Sure the weather is great! - but who has time to enjoy it. 

California is a dessert. Drive through LA, its UGLY!!! - Orange County if nice but still dry. We can't water our lawns or wash our cars without a neighbor reporting us to the city. 

People here are basically rude. Unless they want something from you. Even homeless will Flip you off if you don't give them your money. (That is, if they are conscious) 


I could go on and on. its a sad state of affairs in California so, yeah...I'm out. 

  • Do you live in California?
    • Yes
  • Have you lived in California in the past 5 years?
    • Yes
  • If so, where?
    • North San Diego County
  • Will you be staying or leaving?
    • Staying
  • Why?
    • Weather. Job prospects. Housing/mortgage is locked in.
  • What is your full time income producing job? 
    • Software