Where are the real investors? Any one know?... Bueller... Bueller

184 Replies

I never had a formal or even informal education in finance/investing. BP truly has been been the resource to give me a foundation to get started in that. I know Ive asked some dumb questions, but veteran members have truly helped me out. Because of BP, I feel more comfortable having my one and only rental. As I become more comfortable with that one, I'd like to pick up a few more. Literally REI is all new to me, so while I agree sometimes it gets extra frustrating seeing "really new" members post threads that easily can be searched with a million results, I dont mind sifting through.

I guess my only constructive criticism is to maybe switch up the layout of the forum a bit so its easier to put threads into categories (who knows, maybe they would even put a "real players" section) .  @Scott Trench @Mindy Jensen @Joshua Dorkin Check out blowoutcard forums for what I think is a pretty user friendly forum.  Not sure how much traffic you have if having that many categories is worth it, but give it a look.  As you get bigger, might be worth changing the layout to make it easier to navigate for whatever it is you are looking for.

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

 this site is heavy to buy and hold cash flow in king appreciation is gambling so any market that provides a modicum of cash flow with 20% down is a ripe target for the vast majority of the BP audience .   there have not been many lately but some of the most spirited threads are the SF bay area investors who have made a KILLING in appreciation debating with those that think 200 .oo a month and no appreciation to speak of is the way to go.. :)   Obviously there are far more people with 50k in their jeans to buy low end rentals than 250k to buy a rental in the SF peninsula.. but there is no arguing if you bought a rental in SF peninsula 5 years ago you made WAAAAY more money than any cash flow investment.. but now that seems to have peaked.. and I see another huge run to cash flow My only suggestion to those buying in those markets is to get them paid for as soon as possible and if you can pay cash.. that's where you make money in low value assets.. IE any asset under 100k..  is what I consider a low value asset.

 I'm far from the higher spectrum regarding the topic of this thread, but its comments like what you've made here (and a few other nuggets I gleaned from things you've written in other posts) have become watershed moments of inspiration.  And, more importantly, they've helped me fine tune my strategy.  Us lower end guys are paying attention to guys like you who drop in comments that are invaluable - which are based on a wealth of experience.  Thanks!  

Oh, and by the way - if you "real investors" go and start your own private version of BP (as a couple of people have posted) then the rest of us lose out.

@Steve S.

I have found that the bigger players don't usually have time, nor do they take the time, to write here or to attend local REIA meetings. I stopped going to REIA meetings for years because they were too basic and I didn't have time.

But I answer here because I enjoy coaching and writing. I agree that I have found the same thing, those who are the busiest and truly active are working the business and not looking for information.

Originally posted by @Karen Rittenhouse :

@Steve S.

I have found that the bigger players don't usually have time, nor do they take the time, to write here or to attend local REIA meetings. I stopped going to REIA meetings for years because they were too basic and I didn't have time.

But I answer here because I enjoy coaching and writing. I agree that I have found the same thing, those who are the busiest and truly active are working the business and not looking for information.

Great response.  If they are real investors, then they are out trying to manage their investments and their time.

I am a long, long way from being successful but heck, even I am finding it harder to find new and actionable knowledge at various meet-ups around town.  A lot of it is so geared for new people that don't know the terminology or the concepts even.  

But think about this -- if you have done a deal or two, and you already know something about it, and you need to get more info, specific info, answers to questions, then probably you also know where to go, whom to contact, to find those answers.  You call up a contact, you ask another local investor what they do, what service they use for this or that... And so the search for answers starts to shift from general to narrow in scope. 

And I get that the meet ups should be about networking, but I would say that I meet more serious Houston investors here on BP than I run into at any meet up.  Oh sure there are some exceptions, and if I am honest with myself, maybe I am just not good at networking at those events... working to get better in that area.

My HM lender is one of them, and I know a couple other, yes.  

Didn't HV start up in Dallas?  I would guess Houston was the first city they expanded to when they were just getting started, being just a few hours down the road.

A couple thoughts on this topic.

1.  I think the number of members on the forum is contributing to the variety in quality.  Many more newbies so the ratio is gone.  A few years ago, people had less cash on hand, so the idea of risking it was rarer so there were more die-hards.

2.  After a certain amount of forum reading and contributing, their is a point of diminishing returns for members unless they use BP in a methodical way.  It's like reading books on real estate.  Eventually you aren't going to learn much more by reading books that will be applicable to your investment career.  At some point you just need to dive in and learn from experience.  

3.  I think a VIP section is a bad idea.  It's a turnoff for those who aren't in it and a possible disappointment for those who make it.  I think lessons can be learned from anyone despite their VIP status.  Why limit conversations to those whom you "think" might know the answers.

Unfortunately it seems we are towards the end of this boom in RE now that everyone is on the action and everyone is on BP. Saw that in 2000, when dot co stocks were the talk at parties, cafes, gyms and engineers were talking like they were Wall Street analysts. Saw that again in 2007 when all people were doing was flips, buying new properties every week and bragging about it at social events. Seeing it now, when OOS investing is a game everyone is playing. This does increase traffic on sites like BP buy tells me this is getting very late in the game. Good news is this crowd will dissapear in a jiffy if and when the market turns.

Most investors have small pockets of friendships that they either develop because they are like minded or because they do business together.  It's not like there are big secret societies of these highly advanced investors in local markets.  It's usually a few guys/girls that have been successful in repeating their process , continually bump into the same people and then develop relationships with them. 

Originally posted by @Jeremy Diaz :
@Steve Snyder (New🐝) I feel unwanted on this forum sooooo....I’m going to leave now. Just to let you guys know a lot of “New🐝” look up to ”real players” like yourself (I’m assuming). Also they have BPPro, I’m sure that’ll be more if you’re liking, I think. I wouldn’t know cuz I can’t afford it.

Jeremy, don't leave! There are lots of people who can help you learn what you need to know so you can take your first (and subsequent) steps. Let me know if you need help finding anything on the site - with so much information, it can sometimes be like drinking from a fire hose. 

Originally posted by @Steve S. :

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

My guess is that the "real investors" are busy investing -- doing deals, looking for properties, walking job sites and making stuff happen. Speaking for myself, that's what I've been doing.  As much as I enjoy these forums, there are other priorities that demand time first.

After looking at your BP Profile, I have a couple of questions for you.

  1. Your web site hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why? 
  2. Your Twitter account hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why?
  3. Your Facebook Page hasn't been updated since 2016. Why?
  4. Your social links on your BiggerPockets profile are all broken and make it look like you're not paying attention to details. Why?

Maybe it's because you're busy doing deals and making stuff happen or maybe it's because you're spending too much time on BiggerPockets forum instead of doing deals.

Your post and profile got my attention at the right time because I'm opening escrow on five new properties and might need more lending options.  But as an investor who does fix & flip deals in Los Angeles who is open to working with new private lenders, I'm eager to hear why it looks like you've abandoned your private money business. I'm not saying you have abandoned it, but since there are no updates in almost two years, it definitely looks that way.

There are always tons of people want to strike rich. Naturally, they like to meet and listen to people who are successful and want them to share their secrets.  This is especially true during the housing bubbles days. Now the economy is very much is in full steam. The affordability in housing has forced those looking for cheaper pastures. These are the cities that housing price will go down more during the recession and offer very little upside potential just for cash flow.

The truly investors join an investment club actually putting down money.  The others are people who do want have the means and want to pumping information want to sell you something often overpriced.

Originally posted by @Gregory Storm :
Originally posted by @Steve Snyder:

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

My guess is that the "real investors" are busy investing -- doing deals, looking for properties, walking job sites and making stuff happen. Speaking for myself, that's what I've been doing.  As much as I enjoy these forums, there are other priorities that demand time first.

After looking at your BP Profile, I have a couple of questions for you.

  1. Your web site hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why? 
  2. Your https://twitter.com/PrivateMoneyEZ Twitter account hasn't been updated since 2016.  Why?
  3. Your https://www.facebook.com/privatemoneyloan/ Facebook Page hasn't been updated since 2016. Why?
  4. Your social links on your BiggerPockets profile are all broken and make it look like you're not paying attention to details. Why?

Maybe it's because you're busy doing deals and making stuff happen or maybe it's because you're spending too much time on BiggerPockets forum instead of doing deals.

Your post and profile got my attention at the right time because I'm opening escrow on five new properties and might need more lending options.  But as an investor who does fix & flip deals in Los Angeles who is open to working with new private lenders, I'm eager to hear why it looks like you've abandoned your private money business. I'm not saying you have abandoned it, but since there are no updates in almost two years, it definitely looks that way.

 not to get totally off topic but west coast fix and flippers are in the cat bird seat when it comes to rates and terms these days.. the big crowdfunders.. the Genesis ,  Anchor,  Aloha , Civic, Norris, Lending home ,  Peer street   all of these folks are competing for your business.

I don't know anything about social stuff I personally don't really care for it.. I don't have a twitter account I opened a linkdin long ago and never looked at it again..  and I do a ton of business nationwide.. so not sure that matters or maybe it does I don't even know what Twitter does in a business context  other than I hear Trump use it all the time.. and facebook same thing I would NEVER engage a lender on that site its a social site.. Too many wanna bee's and fruads .  And since I drive a Tesla I have heard of Musk using twitter talking about buying his stock back and taking It private.. 

Originally posted by @Steve S. :

@Scott Trench I think starting with a PRO only marketplace would be the easiest start. It would drive more revenue for you and it would limit the amount of white noise that free accounts provide. 

I agree with @Jay Hinrichs and others to make a higher level account level like a "Mastermind" level that is more exclusive and take a review process to be invited or to be a part of. Then, with your new revenue dollars you can go after accredited investors and help bring them in for the people like us who have helped shape and build this community. 

@Jeremy Roberts  Lastly my friend this is not an attack on New investors or those who want to learn. No one wants that to go away but as BiggerPockets evolves and has evolved it has created a void for more experienced investors and individuals who are operating at a higher level. BP should cater to us all and in no means will you be left in the dust. It should be a great place for all of us. I am simply addressing something that clearly is striking a chord with many of us out there and is something that has been boiling in the ether for awhile.

Hi Steve. In order to post in the Marketplace, you must have a Pro or Plus account. (Plus accounts can post only three times per month) So we already DO have an almost Pro-only Marketplace Forum. 

I'd like to see a forum for those working on larger deals.  >40-50 units.  I work on large apartment acquisitions and the asset management of these deals.  Would be nice to bounce ideas/trends off others in this space, especially those who have access to CoStar, Axiometrics, etc.

Discussions on cap rates, IRR projections, revenue optimization, amenity trends, etc.

I usually peruse the multifamily forum when I visit this site but it is full of duplex/quadplex questions.

Just my two cents as a "seasoned" guy.

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
 not to get totally off topic but west coast fix and flippers are in the cat bird seat when it comes to rates and terms these days.. the big crowdfunders.. the Genesis ,  Anchor,  Aloha , Civic, Norris, Lending home ,  Peer street   all of these folks are competing for your business.

I don't know anything about social stuff I personally don't really care for it.. I don't have a twitter account I opened a linkdin long ago and never looked at it again..  and I do a ton of business nationwide.. so not sure that matters or maybe it does I don't even know what Twitter does in a business context  other than I hear Trump use it all the time.. and facebook same thing I would NEVER engage a lender on that site its a social site.. Too many wanna bee's and fruads 

I guess I was just surprised by the oddity of decrying the lack of attention from real investors on this social media platform while ignoring your other social media platforms.

I would say one of the points on having your business logo in your BP signature is that you hope to get new business when you post here and if your links make it look like you're not in business it defeats the purpose of showing your business in your signature.

I agree about the heavy competition for lending in Los Angeles market.  I've worked with some of the lenders you posted but you left out Pivotal Capital Group.  They are quick as all get out and are easy and amazing to work with.

@Steve Vaughan I do what I can, I’m just glad you think I’m a rockstar lol. I have limited experience, but I’ve had several people on/off BP say I seem to have a lot of knowledge. I read about this stuff daily. It accumulates quickly. I give back when I can. This whole VIP topic is interesting but can we please discuss a way to solve the “llc crisis” on BP? Someone just needs to post the articles about llcs, the pros and cons and stick that somewhere at the top of every forum lol

I was a newbie and still am a Newbie, for the past 8 months... and now I have over 63 investors working with me... Yes that's a trend of new comers coming down to Bigger Pockets and learning information.  If you would like to learn how on earth did I do that in 8 month feel free to connect.

Question any one from CT area? Whom I can network with specifically around Norwalk and Stamford area? Any wholesalers in the area who specialize in both residential and commercial REI?

As I said earlier in this thread, the site has two kinds of people.

1. Those looking to learn.

2. Those looking for a platform to showcase their knowledge/experience.

I fall into the 2nd category & if you work the platform correctly you can make a ton of money. I've sold over $100 Million on this website. If you are a "real investor" who thinks there aren't enough other "real investors" I challenge you to become a better marketer. I challenge you to define & refine your presence here. Ultimately it is your pitch to the community.