Neighborhood Revival

56 posts by 19 users

Medium 1399591403 avatar brutusinvest Jeremy Namen
Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, MO
113 Posts
9 Votes
1 Award

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 11 '12, 01:36 PM

Hello All! My name is jeremy, and im a relatively new member of this greatly appreciated and informative site. Im thinking that ill be able to get some good advice and/or info on implementing an idea that ive had for quite some time....I live in an area of St Louis that really shows its 100+ years wear and tear. As with most old buildings, there is so much character, and I see so much potential for this south city neighborhood. To me the solution is simple: Buy up all the foreclosures and other cheap properties and control the market. Rehab much nicer than the area is used to (houses can be bought at 10-30k in this area) and sell or rent but on a very strict screening process. The area has what could be a very cool shopping business district and it would be wise to invite some creative minded entrepreneurs to begin their business in the area with some sort of grants. Im kind of rambling here but long story short the area could be Great and i wanna know others thoughts on moving forward with a plan and who to present to for financing/grants etc...Any input appreciated even "hey dummy you cant save the world, Move on!!" haha

Medium 1434903723 avatar wakeproperties Chris Martin
Investor from N Topsail Beach, NC
3442 Posts
1234 Votes
12 Awards
Medium 1399323558 avatar justdon Just Don
499 Posts
109 Votes
2 Awards

Just Don

Feb 11 '12, 03:38 PM

you said what can be bought for but not 'exact' cost of rehab,,,and finished sale price. Keeping them all for long term rental would take deep pockets till you built the numbers. Once you own 10 to 20 properties free and clear then gaining more is easy.

My advice, start slow, go easy till you find exact finished cost. Those little things add up fast,,,and hidden must do's are uncovered every day.

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 11 '12, 05:58 PM

I have done work for habitat, but i dont think they necessarily would be a target investor for what i have in mind. I dont think they improve neighborhoods as much as they provide a service for families. That would be an interesting statistic to find..Is there a study out there on the long term value that habitat brings to a neighborhood.

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 11 '12, 06:08 PM

Don i didnt speculate on the cost of rehab because it could range from 5k to 100k on these houses- the low purchase price gives you a little breathing room. the house prices will stay low here for awhile at least until these houses are bought up and even then, hopefully bought by good investors. regardless though the rents are pretty nice and my places are full and positive. i have a 4 family that nets 900/mo..and there are plenty to be had. i want more haha!

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 11 '12, 06:13 PM

I guess im just looking for some advice on how to organize a plan and present it to the right people so i can pick up more props by myself or with others..

Medium 1399439494 avatar shabaka nj Ibrahim Hughes
Investor from Union, NJ
1547 Posts
611 Votes
7 Awards

Ibrahim Hughes

Investor from Union, New Jersey

Feb 11 '12, 09:02 PM
7 votes

Jeremy you have an extremely lofty idea here. I'm going to give you advice based on one who has attempted to invest in a distressed area, informally along with other investors, hoping the area would eventually be revitalized. It never happened. I soon learned that in order for a neighborhood to be revitalized, eventually all of the players - residents, businesses and ESPECIALLY the local government - will need to be on board.

IMO, you can tackle this from two angles:

Pull together the local government, businesses and Investors (don't try and go this alone. Share the wealth and work involved. The revilization will be more effective the more diverse the investment.) and draft a plan to bring back the area. You will need the full cooperation of the police department and eventually the residents as you work to rid the area of one of the main factors bringing it down: crime. As crime is being pushed out you will have to work HARD to convince business owners, other investors AND homebuyers and tenants that this is the real deal. The biggest challenge (and this is what I had to learn the hard way) will be to overcome the decades-long stigma that has plagued the neighborhood and get prospective tenants to sign on. Most will only remember how crime-ridden the neighborhood was and will not be coming back in a hurry. Unless of course you will be primarily attracting the young, educated and professional crowd. If so then forget about the stigma as it likely won't matter much. They will just be concerned that this are places to eat, shop and do it safely. Which brings us back to the cooperation of trendy businesses, the local government and the police. Without them signing on, imo, this doesn't happen.

You will also want to get together with the responsible tenants in the area and encourage the start of homeowners associations. Your challenges will be to get them to work together to clean up the neighborhood. Some might be fearful of the criminals. Others may actually be housing them as family members and friends. Start with the responsible and brave ones first. The ones who don't give a damn about a drug dealer and will smack the lights out of one like he was his son. Get enough of them together and you can clean up a neighborhood. Again, this is a LOT of work.

Finally, check with the city's 'Master Plan'. Every major city should have one and it should tell you the path of improvement (there's actually a term for this which I can't remember right now) the city will take in the coming years. You may find out that the city already plans to start revitalizing the area in 5 years.

These are just my thoughts.

Medium webuynjrealestate bbbIbrahim Hughes, We Buy NJ Real Estate LLC

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 11 '12, 09:32 PM

I think youre speaking of strategic plan- You have hit on EXACTLY everything that i have gone over in my head numerous times and have attempted to try and explain to others. How about you come to St Louis and we get this project rolling! haha seriously though i need to find others that at least see how it could be done. Most are exactly as you say, only remembering the decades of bad and see no hope.
I actually own a small construction co. and have recently chose to only use my crew in this area..I am building a website that will incorporate the neighborhood on certain pages, one of which will be a page that posts photos of suspicious activity. Ill work out all the legal issues and be careful not to accuse anyone but it will be more or less known whats happening. the most prevalent crime here is ive got some good ideas on how to keep the customers away and make it a little humorous for the residents at the same time. I really to start with a plan but the organization of it is a little overwhelming. it will get done though...Anyway nice to see a person with the same faith and vision. Then again im glad that most dont see things the same way...The beauty of being an entrepreneur and investor!

Medium 1398940100 avatar oc pro Jake Kucheck
Residential Real Estate Agent from Newport Beach, CA
1019 Posts
354 Votes
6 Awards

Jake Kucheck

Residential Real Estate Agent from Newport Beach, California

Feb 11 '12, 09:56 PM

Not sure how much you're working with, but FNMA recently came out with a program that more or less has the same effect of what you have in mind. $5MM probably buys a heck of a lot more in STL than it does in these parts... I can only imagine!

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 11 '12, 10:02 PM

Is the the investor pooling? Fannie is supposed to be calling me this week. I have a feeling their criteria for this will be out of my league but maybe i can bring others along from the area.. And yeah jake 5mil would get me over 200 houses here!

No avatar medium Jim S
Real Estate Investor from Virginia, DC &, MD
261 Posts
68 Votes
3 Awards

Jim S

Real Estate Investor from Virginia, DC &, Maryland

Feb 12 '12, 07:55 AM

A great example is Washington, DC.
S.E. was always joked about as being totally ghetto. But now its tuning into a hip yuppie area. You need to try to determine which way the gentrification is moving and jump in ahead of the wave. Buying up some properties as good rentals and holding them until you are ready to rehab and sell for big $$ is the best way.

Medium 1435198577 avatar slackadelic Mark Updegraff
Rochester, NY
1240 Posts
490 Votes
15 Awards

Mark Updegraff Verified Video Donor

from Rochester, New York

Feb 12 '12, 09:23 AM
3 votes

Ibrahim is dead on. The revitilization of a similar neighborhood in my area started in the 70's. It is finally gaining traction now!!! A lot of home owners and investors bought in early hoping things would turn fast... They did not! Businesses are KEY to sucess. You need nice bars & resturants as well as botiques. A handful to start. Locally owned is preferred. Micro brews on tap... Coffee roasters / cafes. If you are lacking these things, only buy extremely good deals, as the hold time could be quite long before the exponential curve starts to effect rates. Find other young motivated entrepreneurs and focus exclusively on this area. Get good online presence including beighborhood message boards, book exchanges, public art, parks, clean up crews, neighborhood watch, dog walking clubs. Find businesses that are sucessful in other parts of town and convince them to mive shop to the new area. Yelp, buzz, google, and local websites are your friend. Get the most popular local band on board. Plan festivals in the commercial area. A beer fest works great. A pet parade. Think different & get others excited and active. Cluster your renovations so people driving by SEE the transformation (3 in a row better than three on different streets. Start as close to the commercial as you can. In fact Buy the commercial (mixed use) now while it is rock bottom. As soon as people start talking the 'perceived value' jumps and people start overpricing junk houses (and idiots buy them). Pushing everything up and reducing your future returns.

Feel free to PM me if u want to chat.

Medium square logo final flatMark Updegraff, Updegraff Development LLC
E-Mail: [email protected]
Telephone: (585) 314-9790
NY Agent # 10491205428

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 12 '12, 03:10 PM

Thanks for your responses- Youve inspired even more ideas on my project- mark ive split my area up into quadrants but i really like your idea of three in a row that makes perfect sense! I think my first step is really just buying what i can when i can- it will be hard at this point to find others. Ill pick up a commercial spot or two along the way- after a few houses have been rehabbed and a little buzz is beginning id like to find an up and coming chef that i could offer a free year lease to begin a new restaurant- my ideas get lofty i know but in reality im not trying to travel the moon!

Medium 1399586579 avatar alewilliamson Al Williamson
Investor from Sacramento, CA
1566 Posts
586 Votes
11 Awards

Al Williamson Video

Investor from Sacramento, California

Feb 12 '12, 06:42 PM

Wow, it's hard to add to all the great advice offered on this topic, but I'll try. Let me tackle your prostitution elimination goal - there are many best practices you should be able to Google - no secret there. Here in Sacramento, we offered assistance to the working ladies in addition to adding deterrents to their customers. The program is called CASH (Community Against Sexual Harm). Here's the link

Also, we gained a lot of traction from annual festivals and a farmers market.

Let me underscore the importance of recruiting businesses to your area.

Lastly, as Ibrahim noted, getting a neighborhood association engaged in your effort is critical. You need them to help you fight blight.

Medium leadinglandlord rgbsmAl Williamson, Leading Landlord
E-Mail: [email protected]

Medium 1399594234 avatar gripitflipit John S.
Chicago, IL
24 Posts
6 Votes
0 Awards

John S.

from Chicago, Illinois

Feb 24 '12, 02:34 PM

Take my advice and stay out of the hood. Your tenants won't be housebroken, collections will be difficult, and you're likely not going to change the demographics of an entire city region just by picking up a few junky properties.

Look for stronger markets if you want to make money with good hardworking tenants who pay on time and respect the units.

You're asking for trouble going into very low income areas. You want to help, but likely no one wants your help there. And the caliber of individual you will deal with is so low you'll wish you never started. They are hard on the rentals, not to mention waiting for +40 years for an investment payout on a nickel and dime bet on housing in a very poor area is not a good investment strategy. Make a few more posts and have BP help you fine tune that thinking.

If you are bent on low income try picking up bigger buildings and section 8ing them for the cash flow because there will likely be no gains on the sale of that real estate.

Medium 1399484940 avatar kyle930 Kyle Meyers
Residential Landlord from Indianapolis, IN
592 Posts
120 Votes
5 Awards

Kyle Meyers

Residential Landlord from Indianapolis, Indiana

Feb 24 '12, 02:53 PM

I like your idea, I am thinking along the same lines as you and have an area I am sort of targeting, but I am thinking very long term. Right now, just buying some properties in a working class area (not a war zone by my definition) and in a few years, with enough properties under my control, I may start improving the properties beyond the neighborhood's current standards and screen more strictly to try to bring up the neighborhood value.

Jeremy Namen

Real Estate Investor from Saint Louis, Missouri

Feb 24 '12, 06:47 PM
4 votes

@John you are exactly why i want to do what im doing- and that is not a shot at you because you are actually the majority in your thinking. By no means am i trying to be a hero, but your thinking has created a challenge and opportunity that doesnt outweigh the reward- Ive always been a risk taker, not for some "thrilling feeling", but because i know that no matter what happens, absolutely anything, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING will be OK. I promise. The potential in this area in my eyes is unreal and the fear is nonexistent, maybe replaced with stupidity in your eyes, but thats irrelevant if im so naive to see it. This is what people call a vision, and this is what inspires great things. So while i thank you for your intentions im going to ignore your advice and do something worthwhile.
@Kyle thats awesome!

John S.

from Chicago, Illinois

Feb 25 '12, 08:03 AM

Removing emotion from the equation will help you develop a more pragmatic approach. I think every new'b at some point thought just like that then eventually found it was a dead end and a major headache, including me.

In contrast, there is a guy in Indy running an operation that buys 50 packs of these types of SFRs refurbishes them and sells them for 40-50k, and he is helping improve the area while profiting. Don't expect to move the market through the purchase of a couple 999sqft SFRs. To replicate, you'll need a large volume of homes to purchase, political buy in, an experienced crew, a million dollar line of credit, and management experience to pull off a deal like that. The money is made on volume of buying and selling, like a Wal-mart for little houses, not on holding them.

I'd recommend putting your plan on paper and working the numbers see if it makes sense. Shop the plan around to other investors who are in the are and see if they think its madness or a practical and executable plan.

Every real estate investment should be analyzed for maximum capitalization. If capitalizing deals isn't interesting to an individual, then that individual is not investor and I'd recommend looking into habitat for humanity or a similar NPO to affect social change.

Mark Updegraff Verified Video Donor

from Rochester, New York

Feb 25 '12, 08:36 AM
2 votes

@John S. Your statements are generalizations. "Hood" is a broad term thrown around with absolutely no real definition.

Assessed values in my "hood" rose 23% this year. Know why? Because of people like @Jeremy Namen! Risk = reward. If you're happy with a 10 cap, do it. We're not & we're young enough, and smart enough to see the bigger picture. We value honesty, integrity, high levels of craftsmanship. We also respect architecture, history, culture, diversity, entrepreneurship. Our goals are lofty enough to make others laugh. Mainly because our passion is so great that we can actually accomplish what we set out to do.

We're the neighborhood investors, not the neighborhood exploiters. And when it's done right, it works better than you can imagine.


Medium square logo final flatMark Updegraff, Updegraff Development LLC
E-Mail: [email protected]
Telephone: (585) 314-9790
NY Agent # 10491205428

John S.

from Chicago, Illinois

Feb 25 '12, 09:12 AM, the definition is implied through the content of my posts. Real estate is local, so voicing the speculative nature of your strategy in the Roc is general, despite it being successful. The only trite text I see in this thread is a strange love affair people are having with very low income and warzone areas.

Knowing your market, putting a plan on paper and working numbers is advice I've bestowed, all I see in your post is blind encouragement and it oozes of naivete. Anyone can buy a 30 cap in the worst neighborhood, but whats the exit?

Btw, assessed values raise your taxes, every investor out there is trying to lower their assessments. Try using comps to price your real estate. Also, cap rates are typically not applied to SFRs due to the impact of vacancy and collection on NOI as well as the cost of maintenance for a single occupant. Use $/sq ft based on comparable sales.

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